Revelation, are you ready?

How can a Church be the Bride of Christ? One gets married in a church, not to a church. And anyway, there never has been a single, unified Christian Church in the history of Christianity and it looks like there never will one either. Christianity is and always has been, a religion of warring sects, hardly anything worthy of being called "the Bride of Christ".

Also, if one stays with traditional guesses about the meaning of Revelation's symbolism, you won't figure out why Revelation carries on the Johannine school's attack on Pharaisic Judaism in symbolic form, e.g., the identification of the first Beast from the sea representing Yahweh and the second beast, Moses..
 
The "Church" is just a idiom used to describe Jesus' bride. Another word that is used frequently is body. The Chruch or true Christians, are Jesus' bride, and is an extention of his body here on earth.

About the first beast. Well, the Bible identifies him as the Anti Christ. And, the Second beast is identified as the False Prophet.
 
Conscience said:
The "Church" is just a idiom used to describe Jesus' bride. Another word that is used frequently is body. The Chruch or true Christians, are Jesus' bride, and is an extention of his body here on earth.

About the first beast. Well, the Bible identifies him as the Anti Christ. And, the Second beast is identified as the False Prophet.
There is arguement here that the first Beast is Europe, and the Second Beast is the United States. Not saying it is true, or I believe, just that there is arguement about who and what the two Beasts are. One comes from the sea, and the other from the land. the Second has horns of a "lamb"? I didn't realize Lambs had horns....hmmm. One is born of conquest, the other born in "peace"...lots of stuff to sort through here. The Second enforces the first...now that might make some sense.

Who knows for certain?...;)

v/r

Q
 
Did anyone else watch the second episode of the TV miniseries, Revelations? So what's up with all that? I really don't see much of it corresponding to Revelation in the Bible, except that the baby they seek might be the dragon (anti-christ). And the both the nun and the scientist are so one-dimensional. Uggh. I think I could have written a better screen play.

Is anyone here getting more out of it???

lunamoth
 
lunamoth said:
Did anyone else watch the second episode of the TV miniseries, Revelations? So what's up with all that? I really don't see much of it corresponding to Revelation in the Bible, except that the baby they seek might be the dragon (anti-christ). And the both the nun and the scientist are so one-dimensional. Uggh. I think I could have written a better screen play.

Is anyone here getting more out of it???

lunamoth
Well, the "Omen" series of movies during the 70s and 80s were "more accurate" (toungue in cheek), and got better reviews...;)

v/r

Q
 
I'm interested to see where they go with it. They seem to be setting something up with the Greek Orthodox Church and their seperation from Rome. They may have formulated their own revelations from scriptures they found and created an alternate one to the more traditional christian view..
 
Quahom1 said:
There is arguement here that the first Beast is Europe, and the Second Beast is the United States. Not saying it is true, or I believe, just that there is arguement about who and what the two Beasts are. One comes from the sea, and the other from the land. the Second has horns of a "lamb"? I didn't realize Lambs had horns....hmmm. One is born of conquest, the other born in "peace"...lots of stuff to sort through here. The Second enforces the first...now that might make some sense.

Who knows for certain?...;)

v/r

Q

I once thought that the first beast was Babylon but Babylon was conquered before Revelation was written. I think the first beast is the Roman Empire perhaps down to Byzantium. Then the second beast would be the United States. But there is so much more to see. I don't think Armeggedon is around the corner. I don't really think it will even occur in my great-grandchildren's lifetime (I don't have children yet).
 
truthseeker said:
I once thought that the first beast was Babylon but Babylon was conquered before Revelation was written. I think the first beast is the Roman Empire perhaps down to Byzantium. Then the second beast would be the United States. But there is so much more to see. I don't think Armeggedon is around the corner. I don't really think it will even occur in my great-grandchildren's lifetime (I don't have children yet).
Well, it is so symbolic, and if man muddled along for another 500 years, the terrain and "countries" might be totally different. For example Ezickiel (sp) talks about man being in 'nests' in the heavens...what could that mean? If you say space station, then I ask, why was the term "nest" used? Why not "perch" or temporary branch? Why a word meaning holding place for the beginning of nurturing new life? ;)

Just a thought.

v/r

Q
 
I would like to tackle Revelations chapter 4

Rev4:1 After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, "Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this."

Here we see Jesus telling John to "come up here". We know that this is Jesus because we can read in Rev 1:10-11 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, saying, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,"

Rev 4:2 Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne set in heaven, and One sat on the throne. 3 And He who sat there was like a jasper and a sardius stone in appearance; and there was a rainbow around the throne, in appearance like an emerald.

Now the Holy Spirit is introduced into the scene.. Reading further we meet the Father sitting on His throne. How amazing it is to me to read someone try to describe the indescribable.. Imagine the prism effect of THE LIGHT eternal.. reflecting off a sea of glass which is like crystal.. Glorious indeed. In our simple ability to describe through simple language it comes out as precious stones and rainbows..

Another interesting thing we have now is the Trinity. Father Son and Spirit... all present there.

Rev 4:4 Around the throne were twenty-four thrones, and on the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting, clothed in white robes; and they had crowns of gold on their heads.

I believe that the 24 elders are the patriarchs and the disciples of Christ.. clothed in white robes of purity and crowns of glory on their heads.

Rev 4:5 And from the throne proceeded lightnings, thunderings, and voices. Seven lamps of fire were burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

The lightenings and thunderings have always been attributed to judgement and how they proceeded from the throne of God.

The seven lamps are the Spirits of God which are the seven characteristics of the Spirit we can find these in Isaiah 11:2 The Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon Him,The Spirit of wisdom and understanding, The Spirit of counsel and might, The Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord.

Rev 4:6-7 Before the throne there was a sea of glass, like crystal. And in the midst of the throne, and around the throne, were four living creatures full of eyes in front and in back. The first living creature was like a lion, the second living creature like a calf, the third living creature had a face like a man, and the fourth living creature was like a flying eagle.

I believe that the 4 living creatures are seraphim which we can read from Isaiah 6:1-3 I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, high and lifted up, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above it stood seraphim; each one had six wings: with two he covered his face, with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. And one cried to another and said: "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts; The whole earth is full of His glory!" If you continue reading the rest of Rev Chapter 4 you can see the praises and worship the seraphim give to God.. and it is eternal.. they do not rest they worship day and night.

Rev4:8 The four living creatures, each having six wings, were full of eyes around and within. And they do not rest day or night, saying: "Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, Who was and is and is to come!" 9 Whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, who lives forever and ever, 10 the twenty-four elders fall down before Him who sits on the throne and worship Him who lives forever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying: 11 "You are worthy, O Lord, To receive glory and honor and power; For You created all things, And by Your will they exist and were created."

And whenever the seraphim worship.. the patriarchs and the disciples of Christ throw their crowns before the throne worshipping day and night forever and ever... saying

You are worthy O Lord to receive glory and honor and power For you created ALL things and by Your will they exist.. and by your pleasure they were created.

Rev 4:11 KJV Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created
(I believe this is a much better translation of rev 4:11)
 
truthseeker said:
I once thought that the first beast was Babylon but Babylon was conquered before Revelation was written. I think the first beast is the Roman Empire perhaps down to Byzantium. Then the second beast would be the United States. But there is so much more to see. I don't think Armeggedon is around the corner. I don't really think it will even occur in my great-grandchildren's lifetime (I don't have children yet).
Hmm I dont believe the conquering of one empire was the final conquering of Babylon..

All throughout the bible they were pretty clear on where Babylon was.. To suddenly decide that Babylon in revelation is a symbol for something could be a mistake.. This historical country of Babylon is Iraq... Saddam had statues made of Nebuchadnezzar glorying in the once great nation of Babylon .. perhaps wanting to show a link between himself and the past ruler.

Something to think about anyways.
 
Quahom1 said:
There is arguement here that the first Beast is Europe, and the Second Beast is the United States.
Q, I found a good deal about the beasts mentioned in Rev.

[size=+1]There are 3 7-headed, 10-horned beasts in the book of Rev(Rev. 12:3; 13:1; 17:3). Additionally, the 7th Ch of Daniel speaks of 4 beasts rising up from the ocean. Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. 5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and[/size] threescore days. 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.[size=+1]Identifies this beast as Satan.[/size]
[size=+1][/size]
[size=+1]Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will show unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. 3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. 7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not[ouk estin], and yet is. John is told the beast "was, and is not, and yet is." This beast was here at one point, is not here in 95AD and will rise out of the abyss at some time.[/size]
[size=+1][/size]
[size=+1]In Lk 8:23-33 we see demons terribly afraid of the abyss. The bible teaches different type of fallen angels ones that are allowed to roam and ones locked up in chains of darkness.[/size]
[size=+1]Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.[/size][size=+1]1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.[/size]
[size=+1]2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; [/size]

Rev 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. 2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. 3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. 5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man. 6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them. 7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men. 8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions. 9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle. 10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months. 11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
Abaddon, the angelic king, "was" free on the earth in the past. Yet because of his wickedness and sins, God saw that it was necessary to imprison him in the Abyss. At the time John received his vision, Abaddon "was not" because he was locked in the Abyss. However, as the angel makes clear, this "beast" will one day soon be freed from his confinement and "will come up out of the Abyss."

Back to Rev 17Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
In the Bible a mountain figuratively represents a kingdom or its ruler. The 7 mountains and 7 heads refered to are one in the same they represent earthly kingdoms Satan has ruled or will rule over. The angel tells him 5 have fallen Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece Rome was the one in power when it was wrote leaving one still to come. The beast said to arise from the abyss is actually the eigth but is of the seven. Dan 2:31 Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible. 32 This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass, 33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.
Clearly there are 5 kingdoms told of here the feet of iron and clay are a different kingdom then the legs of iron.
Dan 2:38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold. We are told the head is Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon. The first two kingdoms, Egypt and Assyria, had already fallen at the time of Nebuchadnezzar's dream so of course werent represented in his dream.
Dan 2:39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth. Babylon was followed by the Medo-Persian empire which was conquered by Alexander the Greats Greek empire.
Dan 2:40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise. The Roman empire rose to prominence and crushed the remanents of the other kingdoms before them.
Dan 2:41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay. 42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. 43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay. This fifth kingdom, although composed partly of iron, is not part of the Roman empire. These kingdoms are grouped together because they are all earthly kingdoms that Satan has been (or will be) allowed to rule. This final, end-time empire will be a mixture of spirit beings (iron) and human (clay). This is the meaning of the mysterious statement "they will mingle with the seed of men" found in Daniel 2:43. At the end of this age, Revelation 9 shows that the sons of God(fallen angels) and their hybrid offspring will once again roam free on the earth, just as they did before the Flood. We can know that the kingdoms listed above are correct, because each of those seven has or will exercise authority and rule over God's chosen people Israel. That's the common denominator that ties these seven human empires together and makes them representative of all the kingdoms of this world ruled by Satan.
Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. 45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure. In verse 44, the phrase "in the days of these kings" refers to the ten kings represented by the toes of the statue. We know from Daniel 7:24 and Revelation 17:12 that these ten kings appear in the end-time and give their power to the Antichrist. This identifies the time period of the kingdom represented by the feet or iron and clay.
Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. 14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. 15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. 16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. 17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfill his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. 18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth. This woman, represents Satan's religious-economic system, "Babylon the Great." Which is supported and promoted by the earthly kingdoms Satan has been allowed to rule, represented by the beast with seven heads.
 
Now to the third beast in Revelations.
Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. This beast is said to come up out of the sea. In Scripture, the sea often symbolically represents the nations of the world. However, the sea can also be viewed to represent the Abyss. In Jewish thought, the Abyss was associated with the ocean depths. Speaking of the Septuagint, which was the Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures in use at the time of Christ, The New Unger's Bible Dictionary says: "The LXX renders Heb. tehom, 'the primeval ocean' (Gen. 1:2; Ps. 24:2; etc.) as 'abyss.'" (Abyss, p. 18). So while this aspect of the vision represents the rise of the beast from among the nations, it is likely dual in that it also represents the rise of Abaddon from the depths of the Abyss after his release at the fifth trumpet. Verse 1 also tells us that each of the ten horns has a crown, representing rulership and authority. In verse 2, we see that this beast has parts from a leopard, a bear, and a lion. This seems to tie the identification of the beast here with the four beasts Daniel saw in his vision recorded in Daniel 7.

Dan 7:1 In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters. 2 Daniel spoke and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea. 3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another. 4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it. 5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh. 6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it. 7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and broke in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. The first beast is a composite of two animals, a lion and an eagle. The second beast was a bear, the third a four-headed leopard, and the fourth an unnamed, terrifying beast with ten horns.

Let's look at the first four kingdoms represented in Daniel 2. The kingdoms started with Babylon and ran consecutively to Rome. When we look at the situation of the House of Judah at the beginning and end of the period when these four kingdoms ruled over the Holy Land compared to the situation of Judah during the reign of the four beasts of Daniel 7, a fascinating "mirror image" of events becomes evident. [size=+1]Judah was an independent nation when Babylon (the head of gold) rose to power. Although the fortunes of the Jews changed several times during the intervening centuries, by the time Rome (the legs of iron) fell, the Jews had been scattered throughout the world by the Romans in what came to be known as "the Diaspora." Each of the four kingdoms of Daniel 2 (Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome) played a large part (both negative and positive) in what happened to the House of Judah during this time period. [/size]

When you look at the 4 beasts in Daniel 7 you will see the pattern is reversed. When the first beast rises up Judah is still scattered after the 4th beast Judah is once again an independent nation. The first beast a lion with wings like an eagle represents GB and her Offspring the US. The plucking of the wings refers to the split of the US from Great Britain. With that event, the character of the British empire was changed. Along with the eagle's wings, it lost the heart of a lion, and that heart was replaced by the heart of a man. No longer did Great Britain inspire terror in the world. Instead, it used human cunning to hold onto power and territory. Since then, Britain has gradually lost its colonies and its might. It was Great Britain that initiated the return of Jews to the Holy Land through the issuance of the Balfour Declaration in November 1917. The Balfour Declaration became the cornerstone of international support for the founding of the modern state of Israel.
The bear is the national symbol of Russia. This second beast that rises up has three ribs in its mouth, and these ribs tell the bear to "arise and devour much flesh" (Dan. 7:5). Russia's part in the rebirth of Judah is much more negative than Britain's, but just as effective. [size=+1]The Soviet government caused the financial ruin of most Russian Jews through the termination of private commerce and the seizure of property and goods. Hundreds of thousands of Jewish families lost their means of making a living. These policies caused about 300,000 Jews to leave the Soviet-controlled territories for the Baltic states, Poland, and Rumania. [/size][size=+1]Russia's new atheistic communist government also waged a fierce battle against Russian Judaism and its leaders. Heavy taxes were imposed on the rabbis and other religious officials to try and force them to leave their positions. A campaign was also initiated against the Hebrew language. The study of Hebrew was prohibited, and books could not be published in the language. These actions continued through World War II and were the motivation for many religious Jews to flee to the Holy Land after the War. [/size]

The third beast, the leopard with four heads and four bird's wings on its back, is somewhat more difficult to identify. However, the characteristics of the leopard help us to recognize the entity it represents in this prophecy. Leopards are known for their swift and lethal attack. In a mechanical emulation of the fleet assault of a leopard, Adolf Hitler's Germany waged blitzkrieg ("lightning war") against its enemies using Panzer forces during World War II. These cat-quick attacks disorganized enemy forces through the use of speed, surprise, and superior firepower and led to the Third Reich's conquest of mainland Europe during the early years of the war. The two pairs of wings on the back of the leopard could represent the Axis nations which aligned themselves with Germany in WWII (Italy and Japan). The four heads of the leopard represent the division of Germany into four regions after its defeat in WWII. The eastern half was controlled by Russia, while the western half was split between Great Britain, the United States, and France. The death of approximately six million Jews in the Nazi Holocaust, while tragic beyond words, was not in vain. Once WWII ended and the scope of the Nazi plan to exterminate the Jews was grasped, there was much international sympathy for the establishment of a Jewish homeland in the land commonly known as "Palestine."





The fourth beast seen by Daniel, which appeared to be horrible, strong, and unlike any of the others, has to represent the entity which played the greatest role in the formation of modern Israel. This fourth beast represents the global government of the United Nations. General Assembly Resolution 181, issued by the United Nations on November 29, 1947, outlined the formation of Jewish and Arab states in Palestine. Additionally, it called for Jerusalem to become an international city under the control of the UN:
The City of Jerusalem shall be established as a corpus separatum under a special international regime and shall be administered by the United Nations. The Trusteeship Council shall be designated to discharge the responsibilities of the Administering Authority on behalf of the United Nations. (A/RES/181(II) (A+B), Part III-City of Jerusalem, Section A-Special Regime)
The United Nations, the "terrible" fourth beast of Daniel 7, will soon supplant the governments of the other beasts (the United States, Great Britain, Russia, Germany, and the rest of the world) and will begin to rule the earth in their place. The United Nations reportedly has the world divided into ten administrative regions; when the United Nations government begins ruling the world, these areas will be headed by the ten horns of the beast. These ten kings (represented by the ten horns on the fourth beast and the ten toes on the statue of Daniel 2) will rule over these administrative regions.




Dan 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things. The little horn that ascends among them is commonly understood to be the Antichrist. We now know him also as Abaddon/Apollyon, angelic king of the Abyss (Rev. 9:11). The ten horns are shown to be ten kings that arise as a result of the ascendence of this fourth, global ruling kingdom. We are told the "other horn" arises after these ten kings, and uproots three of the kings. It's clear that these ten kings who rule the earth through the coming global government (the United Nations) will exist simultaneously. Clearly the Antichrist is different from them; whereas they are human rulers, he is an angelic king. He will put down three of the rulers of this global kingdom in his bid for power. We see from Revelation 13:1 that this beast has seven heads. If we count the total number of heads on the four beasts seen by Daniel, they add up to seven also. Revelation 13:2 describes the seven-headed beast as a composite of the four beasts Daniel saw. The beast in Revelation 13 is the fourth beast Daniel saw (the United Nations), viewed by John after it had subdued and absorbed the first three. Just as with Daniel's beasts, this one rises from the sea. This kingdom is given power, rulership, and authority by Satan.


Just another way to look at it I guess. For alot closer look see THE BEASTS OF REVELATION AND DANIEL by Bryan T. Huie.
 
some things i feel it is ok to guess on. i would rather not know it all & then be wrong, especially when teaching or sharing with someone else, because we are held accountable. I know His Word is true & even if we dont understand it all, he will still guide us & show us when we are ready to recieve it.

but i feel we need to have the basic foundation of the death burial & resurrection of Jesus, or other things will be way out of line.
 
mosherosh said:
If you want to get into honest discussion about Revelation and the anti-Judaism of the "Johns" of the New Testament, you are most welcome to come to a new religious forum, the Biomystic Arena at http://www.biomystic.org. At the Biomystic Arena we can openly talk about Christianity and any other religious or philosophical beliefs without worrying about breaking rules meant to squelch honest intelligent debate by either ignoring or reducing conflicting beliefs to pablum. At the Biomystic Arena, members themselves, not self-selected censors, are trusted to be able to know what's appropriate for discussion and what is not. If you value your ability to express your personal beliefs without being told if you can and if so how you can by someone who isn't you, doesn't know your mind yet wants to play tin god with your opinions, if you want to get out from under Parent and be allowed to be an adult, you are welcome to join us at the Biomystic Arena at http://www.biomystic.org.


See you there! ;)

It doesn't appear that anyone has interfered with you posting your interpretations here at CR. What gives? It does look like a promo, as well as being rude to our site host and moderators. Does open honest "intelligent" discussion always mean vindictive and impolite? I've seen the sites where there are no rules or attempts at moderation and "intelligent" is the last thing I'd say about most of them.

bon chance,
lunamoth
 
Faithfulservant said:
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Rev 4:2 Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne set in heaven, and One sat on the throne. 3 And He who sat there was like a jasper and a sardius stone in appearance; and there was a rainbow around the throne, in appearance like an emerald.

Now the Holy Spirit is introduced into the scene.. Reading further we meet the Father sitting on His throne. How amazing it is to me to read someone try to describe the indescribable.. Imagine the prism effect of THE LIGHT eternal.. reflecting off a sea of glass which is like crystal.. Glorious indeed. In our simple ability to describe through simple language it comes out as precious stones and rainbows..

Another interesting thing we have now is the Trinity. Father Son and Spirit... all present there.

....

Rev 4:11 KJV Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created
(I believe this is a much better translation of rev 4:11)

Hi Faithfulservant, thank you for your thoughts about Rev 4. I also especially like the description of God on His throne, all brilliant light, and find it interesting that at the start of Rev 5 we see the Lamb, "looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne," or in other words right there where the Father also is.

lunamoth
 
Wow, Dor, I needed to take notes to follow what you wrote and I still didn't get it all. Interesting to be sure. I think I need the condensed version. I'm a novice in reading Rev but I'll summarize my take on the evil players of the endtimes.

1. The dragon (Rev 12) who tries to devour the son of the woman in heaven. Dragon is satan, woman is creative force of God, the son is the Messiah sent to reign over the Kingdom of God. The "war" is in heaven and thus is a symbol of events to occur on earth. The woman could also represent the religion of Israel prior to Christ's birth.

2. beast from the sea (Rev 13)--certainly looks to me like it represents an earthly empire. Empowered by the dragon--empowered by those forces which resist God.

3. beast from the earth (Rev 13)--spoke like the dragon, miraculous signs, created image of the first beast, forced/coerced worship of the first beast--certainly looks like a false relgion, but I don't think it is actually something we identify as a religion except in jest, such as, he worships money. False idol worship based on materialism.

4. the harlot, Babylon. I think this is the idealized antithesis of the Bride, the New Jerusalem, the Holy Church, the Kingdom of God. Everything that the Kingdom of God is, Babylon is the opposite of. Dor called it Satan's economic-religious system. I don't think we would recognize it as a religion, although a corrupt and unjust economy and governance taking the place of the Kingdom of God certainly would be like a corrupt religion.

I don't know but I suspect that the details about each of these characters is based on details from history, rather than specific predictions about the future, but I certainly am not tied to this notion. Prophecy is challenging for me. Do I believe all this can happen? For sure, it already is. Look around --seems a lot like Isaiah's Judea to me.

the unstudied,
lunamoth
 
That looks about right to me Luna. Then later we see the dragon goes after the woman through a flood of lies but the earth swallows up the lies instead, then the dragon goes to make war with the remnant of her seed which keep the commandments of God AND have the testimony of Jesus Christ. hmmm...

Faithful, yours on ch.4 looks good to me too.

Stand on the Word & keep yours eyes focused on Jesus. He will not fail us:) .
The world cannot see it, but the church can.
 
I found for me personally to even attempt to read Revelation I had to read Isaiah Ezekiel Jeremiah and Zechariah oh yes and Daniel.. to go even further to read the other short books at the end of the OT.. You can see all the same symbolisms used.. Use cross references.. the works been done for you already. By no means am I even assuming that my ideas are correct but I have such a blast being in the Spirit and trying to decipher the meanings. I think my favorite thing about Revelation is the awesome display of the power of God... all to His glory and majesty. I love that Jesus returns as King and that all recognize Him for who He is and bow down before Him.

Its also interesting that once you study the bible for its prophecies.. and you start to read the rest of the bible you see prophecies everywhere.
 
Sorry I didn't get back sooner Dor. I've been pre-occupied with a couple of other issues. I'll take a good read at what you found.

;)

v/r

Q
 
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