seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
It has many different facets. I'll highlight one: the importance of knowing yourself, along with the importance of acknowledging all the things you don't know.cavalier said:
what God really wants?
- Thread starter dayaa
- Start date
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
Well, it's your paradigm. {Know thyself}cavalier said:
dayaa said:hello everyone
i find it rather confusing that there are so many different religions. in view of the fact that there seem to be quite clearly good, bad and every degree in between amongst all religious groups of people (as well as non-religious people) there seems to be no clear indicator that there is one right religion. pretty much every religion has the same basics in some shape or form....yet they also differ quite considerably in details. most people take their religion from birth/marriage/circumstance rather than by conscientious choice, and i can't imagine that God will judge millions of decent people for being in the "wrong" religion when to be honest, it all seems as clear as mud! so where does that leave us? i wonder if God gave all of us the instinct to be aware of him and minds to think and maybe that's what we are supposed to do? so what is the relationship between God and religion? are all religions man-made using the tools God gave us? are we free to chose to "go it alone" with our own thoughts or to follow any religion which makes most sense to us whilst still retaining the right to free thought....the right to disagree with certain concepts within the religion of our choice? i would appreciate comments from members of all religions as to how they view other beliefs and how they understand plurality in religion. thankyou.
God hates religion. He said so (at least in scriptures). He never started one in the beginning (we did). In fact, the only religion that God cares for is one we did stumble on, but never quite perfected. Take care of the orphans and widows (religiously).
God made it clear what He wants from man, and did so at the very beginning...
"And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him." Gen. 5:24
Enoch walked with God for 300 years after the birth of Methuselah (great grand father of Noah). God did not force Enoch, Enoch chose to walk with God, and God did not let Enoch experience death, because of his choice and steadfastness. God simply took Enoch home.
Was Enoch perfect? Not by a long shot.
But he never quit putting God first and foremost in his life. (The spirit willing, but the body weak, yet the will, incorruptable). Can you imagine walking with God for 24 hours, let alone 300 years? Enoch's will and dedication to God, must be compared to Solomon's wisdom. Unprecidented in human history! Thinking of the Garden of Geshtemini, how dis-appointed Christ must have been, that his disciples couldn't stay awake for even an hour, while He prayed and sweat blood over what He was about to undertake...or the wrestling match between God and Jacob all night, despite a dislocated hip, and Jacob refused to give in. Nope, he held onto God with all his might and being.
That is what God wants of man, to hold onto Him with everything we've got, and then some. I don't think it has to be for any specific length of time (as scripture shows us), but it has to be totally and unconditionally.
Lean not on thine own understanding, but on every word that comes from the Lord...(that is starting to make powerful sense to me).
my thoughts
v/r
Q
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
dayaa said:hello everyone
i find it rather confusing that there are so many different religions. in view of the fact that there seem to be quite clearly good, bad and every degree in between amongst all religious groups of people (as well as non-religious people) there seems to be no clear indicator that there is one right religion. pretty much every religion has the same basics in some shape or form....yet they also differ quite considerably in details. most people take their religion from birth/marriage/circumstance rather than by conscientious choice, and i can't imagine that God will judge millions of decent people for being in the "wrong" religion when to be honest, it all seems as clear as mud! so where does that leave us? i wonder if God gave all of us the instinct to be aware of him and minds to think and maybe that's what we are supposed to do? so what is the relationship between God and religion? are all religions man-made using the tools God gave us? are we free to chose to "go it alone" with our own thoughts or to follow any religion which makes most sense to us whilst still retaining the right to free thought....the right to disagree with certain concepts within the religion of our choice? i would appreciate comments from members of all religions as to how they view other beliefs and how they understand plurality in religion. thankyou.
James 1:19-27 said:
Hey flow.
Something you wrote interested me, I guess in this post I might be taking it a bit/a lot more literally than you ever intended. I hope you'll excuse that. I realise that you may not agree with what I'm arguing against.
Is this what it's all about? Choosing what suits us best? Quahom illustrated the story of Enoch, a man who God loved because he
It's not just Enoch, what about Jonah who God punished because he took his own path.
If we simply think about what suits us best, we put ourselves, but that is a position which should be reserved for God.
An example:
A few years ago I spent a year in Kenya working with the Anglican Church. On comming back to England I met with other missionaries from the same organization. Many of them said that they felt spiritually dry because in their mission church they had gone a year without a "praise and worship session". I thought to myself, "Does God really care about a praise and worship session, or does God simply care that we praise, and that we worship."Those people felt spiritually dry because they weren't able to worship in their favored way. They stopped putting God first and made their own needs and comforts more important.
Something you wrote interested me, I guess in this post I might be taking it a bit/a lot more literally than you ever intended. I hope you'll excuse that. I realise that you may not agree with what I'm arguing against.
flowperson said:
Is this what it's all about? Choosing what suits us best? Quahom illustrated the story of Enoch, a man who God loved because he
Quahom1 said:
It's not just Enoch, what about Jonah who God punished because he took his own path.
If we simply think about what suits us best, we put ourselves, but that is a position which should be reserved for God.
An example:
A few years ago I spent a year in Kenya working with the Anglican Church. On comming back to England I met with other missionaries from the same organization. Many of them said that they felt spiritually dry because in their mission church they had gone a year without a "praise and worship session". I thought to myself, "Does God really care about a praise and worship session, or does God simply care that we praise, and that we worship."Those people felt spiritually dry because they weren't able to worship in their favored way. They stopped putting God first and made their own needs and comforts more important.
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
Cavalier, from your above post, I think it demonstrates that you understand the paradigm you asked about here...
...far better than I could possibily explain it to you. You are not insane, IMHO.cavalier said:
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
Do you mean you've been asking people for years if your views are insane, and I'm the only one who has said that they are not insane? {Gee that is scary!}cavalier said:All those years of worry.
Do you realise you're the only person who's ever said that to me?
No, nothing like that. I was making a joke. I haven't actually been worrying that I'm insane.seattlegal said:Do you mean you've been asking people for years if your views are insane, and I'm the only one who has said that they are not insane? {Gee that is scary!}
I guess dry English Humor isn't suited to internet forums.
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
cavalier said:
I got the joke. I was making a joke about dry English Humor. RubySera_Martin
Well-Known Member
flowperson said:G-d is beauty. Nature is beauty. Maybe we're all ending up to be what some call pagans, but is that a bad thing ?
I don't think so, not as long as we have a collective consciousness and the abilities to think about and choose what suits our individual circumstances.
Blessings to you Ruby Sera and welcome to CR !
PS. I was a liberal Christian all of my life and still was drummed out of the corps for thinking differently and having the impetus to write about it; and then, horror of horrors, to try and enlist others in that belief. Negative reactions always indicate to me that I must be doing something right. You continue on your quest and do not look back.
flow....
Thanks for the welcome and blessing. It's good to hear that not even liberal Christianity is immune to the evils of prejudice and ostrasism. Maybe that's just how people are. I think the question of this thread was what religion does God want of us, and you ask if it were a bad thing for all of us to be pagan. So long as we can live in peace and harmony with each other regardless of different interpretations of the various experiences and phenomena and ideas and personalities, I don't think God cares exactly what religion we have.
I've heard some Christians oppose nature worship. I don't know if anybody worships nature--I have yet to hear of anybody who does. But nature nurtures the soul. Its beauty, power, intricateness, there is no end of the different shapes and sizes and colours and textures of nature.
Last week we were having a thunder storm. Except there was no storm. Lightening flashed and thunder crashed and I just stood out on the driveway taking it all in. The landlady and her daughter came home while I was out there. The mother asked if I am enjoying the weather. I said, "Yes. It's God." Later the daughter explained that the lightening and thunder is caused by friction when the clouds rub together. I'm not sure that I have it straight exactly how she meant, but in my mind she was applying a rational scientific explanation and I just wanted to cherish the sense of awe and power the thunder and lightening inspired in me. It felt like I was part of the raw elements that make up this planet. She probably thought I was steeped in archaic superstition. In a way I was, but it was an informed choice I made because it nurtured my spirit.
flowperson
Oannes
cavalier said:
Hey Cav:
Thanks for your response. I should have qualified my statement by making it clear that we all should follow the paradigm of making choices based upon our intuitions which flow from our individual conversations with G-d.
Over on TCPC, there is a discussion going on regarding the manner in which we all pray. Over there progressives are of the opinion that individual conversations with G-d constitute the most edifying form of prayer. However, other brands of religious devotion emphasize more rigorous forms of praise and worship to make G-d connections.
I myself have never felt more connected to G-d than when I have been in a gospel-singing environment, but I also relish my personal conversations with G-d and the assurance and peace which seem to flow from those instances. They guide my choice patterns when I need some help. I guess that you could say it all depends upon how you're brought up and what you're used to in your prayer and G-d conversation rituals. In other words, matters of choice and style figure into communication rituals. Seek out what works best for you and then stick to it consistently. I believe that with time you'll experience results that work for you
I don't believe that you're insane either !
flow....
flowperson
Oannes
Ruby:
I would land on the side of your observations regarding the storm.
IMO, G-d is not a micromanager. She/He sets the systems of the world into motion and interaction, and circumstances fall out of that process that always end up being good in the long run. That's my definition of Nature.
So you were both correct to an extent. Yes, G-d set the storm and its events into motion, but does not control its events. Its events are a result of the frictions caused by the interactions of air currents, water vapor, and temperature gradients. But it is my belief that G-d is always in charge of His/Her creations, but not nesessarily the circumstances that they evoke.
flow....
I would land on the side of your observations regarding the storm.
IMO, G-d is not a micromanager. She/He sets the systems of the world into motion and interaction, and circumstances fall out of that process that always end up being good in the long run. That's my definition of Nature.
So you were both correct to an extent. Yes, G-d set the storm and its events into motion, but does not control its events. Its events are a result of the frictions caused by the interactions of air currents, water vapor, and temperature gradients. But it is my belief that G-d is always in charge of His/Her creations, but not nesessarily the circumstances that they evoke.
flow....
not my will but thy will
RubySera_Martin
Well-Known Member
cavalier said:
To this, Wil replies:
I've got a problem with that. If I follow the conversation correctly, then this refers to people who had worked in the mission field in situations that did not nurture their spiritual life. My question would be: Did God call them to the mission field or was it the church or some other human idea? How do we discern that God wills it?
Which brings us back to the original question on what God wants. Except that the question regarded whether God wants us to have the Christian religion or some other religion. In all cases, though, we are talking about discerning God's will.
Many Christians probably won't agree with me but I conclude from my own experience and the stories of other people's experiences that we must be and do that which best nourishes our own spirit.
This will look like selfishness and lack of self-denial to many Christians. Maybe it is; maybe it isn't. From a psychological perspective it makes no sense to deny myself to the point where I become a nobody. Why? Because nobody can serve God i.e. a non-person cannot do God's will. We must take care of and nurture ourselves if we hope to be in any condition to help others.
"Helping others" brings up its own questions. If we live in an affluent society far from the poverty of jungle peoples how can we help anyone? Should we not go into the mission field to the poverty and disease-ridden and aleviate their afflictions?
I will focus here on helping others in our own affluent societies. I see it as a basket in which all strands are woven together to make a complete whole. A basket is a useful item. However, if one strand is broken the rest is weakened and perhaps the whole thing will fall apart and spill the contents.
To avoid this from happening, each strand must focus much attention on self-care. The strand that would isolate itself from the other strands is little good. The strand that is so focused on serving others at cost to itself becomes weak and broken.
For this reason I think it is important, and also God's will, that we focus primarily on self-care. This will include finding a niche in society. When we find our niche in our focus on self-care we turn into guiding lights for others. Thus we draw strength from each other and support each other in the various struggles of life.
Sometimes the biggest thing a person does for me is to hold the door for me. This is especially helpful when I am feeling very discouraged and question my value as a human being. The other person's little act of holding the door validates that I am a human being worthy of respect. This can put a smile on my face. And who knows who all is encouraged to see a smiling face?
On the other hand, a person who feels dry and under-nourished spiritually very likely becomes short-tempered and sets in motion a lot of negative stuff, even if they manage to paste on an appropriate smile.
That is why I think self-care is of top priority i.e. seek ye first the kingdom of heaven and all the rest shall be added unto you.