star

[InLove]

Hello, and Peace to All Here--

Mee, I am going to attempt to address you in the best way I know how, that being in the Spirit of Love, for God is Love.

I just cannot help but wonder what your motive is? Please forgive me--I just can't seem to find another way to ask the question.

I admit that I am not very educated in the doctrine of the Jehovah's Witness. But the very name of that organization suggests that this is a group of people concentrated on witnessing about God. I guess I don't know exactly what you believe about Christ. So my apologies if I am misunderstanding your intent.

It just seems to me that if you spent as much time promoting Jehovah as you do tearing apart His Word, then you would bring to Him so much more glory.

I believe that we are indeed encouraged in the Word to examine the Scriptures. But I do not believe that focusing on divisions of thought that take away from the whole of the message is fruitful.

I hardly ever post anything like this, but I really am interested in your reply, if you care to give one.

It is not my intent to hurt anyone's feelings. I hate that. But I have been following some of your discussions for a while now, and frankly, I just do not understand. And I am a very understanding and open-minded person.

Hope you can understand why I feel the need to ask you the things I have asked.

InPeace,
InLove

 

[mee]

Hello, and Peace to All Here--

Mee, I am going to attempt to address you in the best way I know how, that being in the Spirit of Love, for God is Love.

I just cannot help but wonder what your motive is? Please forgive me--I just can't seem to find another way to ask the question.

I admit that I am not very educated in the doctrine of the Jehovah's Witness. But the very name of that organization suggests that this is a group of people concentrated on witnessing about God. I guess I don't know exactly what you believe about Christ. So my apologies if I am misunderstanding your intent.

It just seems to me that if you spent as much time promoting Jehovah as you do tearing apart His Word, then you would bring to Him so much more glory.

I believe that we are indeed encouraged in the Word to examine the Scriptures. But I do not believe that focusing on divisions of thought that take away from the whole of the message is fruitful.

I hardly ever post anything like this, but I really am interested in your reply, if you care to give one.

It is not my intent to hurt anyone's feelings. I hate that. But I have been following some of your discussions for a while now, and frankly, I just do not understand. And I am a very understanding and open-minded person.

Hope you can understand why I feel the need to ask you the things I have asked.

InPeace,
InLove

Hi there,my motive as one of Jehovahs witness is to try my best in my imperfect state to always bring glory to Jehovah God and jesuschrist as his king. and to make known the wonderful promises in the bible regarding gods kingdom goverment ,that will bring peace to this earth . if as you say , you have followed my posts you will see that i will always bring to the fore Gods kingdom goverment as this is the only hope for mankind. but i also believe that many people are misled into believing certain things that are false . and not based on accurate knowledge of the bible. so as i feel that it is very important that these falsehoods are made known, i am not ashamed to do this , this is not bringing dishoner to the true God Jehovah but it is making known falsehood . that is what i feel is important (accurate knowledge )not beliefs based on falsehood , if people are offended by this that is not my problem i am only interested in truth.so rather than tearing down the bible i feel that it is right to make known falsehood and lead others to an accurate knowledge
This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ(John 17;3)

 

[InLove]

Hello, and Peace,

Thank you for your reply, Mee. I hope you understand that I just needed to ask. While I disagree with your method and some of what you say, I can relate to how you feel about it.

No hard feelings or harm done, I hope.

InPeace,
InLove

 

[Bandit]

according to some of the interpretation here, we would also have to conclude that every star & planet in the universe was put there by the devil, because they have all been studied & worshipped. (especially venus, jupiter & saturn)

we would need to conclude:
1) everyone living in Las Vegas is a gambler & a devil worshipper because the area is corrupt (& i have no doubt that it is corrupt, been there & done it).
2) all harlots, even Rahab & the one Jesus forgave are of the devil, because Rahab lied, but God spared her because she lied in love.

...and so on & so forth.

i say there is a severe lack of evidence to draw any definate conclusion that the devil put this star there or that these particular men were bad magicians.
Even if they were, God used them in this! & not satan.
I also consider & from what I can see, these men were following the prophecy in scripture & not pagan prophecy or that of the twinkle toes like a Jeanie.

the devil (whom Herod allowed himslef to be influenced by) seeks to destroy & bring confusion. neither these magoi or the star did any such thing. rather they were men who were seeking for the King of Kings & fulfilling at least 3 prophecies. Which in all reality-

He was seeking for me, Jesus was seeking for me
Though I knew him not, still he loved me
and was seeking for me
AND...
Wise Men still seek Him

here is another source from the catholic encyclopedia, for anyone interested so they can finish there studies.
i do not agree with everything said at the site, but it is just another view to consider.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09527a.htm

 

[mee]

Hello, and Peace,

Thank you for your reply, Mee. I hope you understand that I just needed to ask. While I disagree with your method and some of what you say, I can relate to how you feel about it.

No hard feelings or harm done, I hope.

InPeace,
InLove

thats ok, no harm done at all

 

[truthseeker]

No that is not what we find. We find that they were "Sages" searching for the promised One. What we find is that a jealous King was a coniving vicious soul who would do anything to keep his pitiful reign. We also find that the very GOD who set up this whole thing, warned the "Sages" to go back by a different route, rather than advise the King of the whereabouts of the Child/King.

What I find disturbing is when a "Christian sect" holds more fascination with the "doings of the Devil" than with the doings of the "Savior".

The "Sages" were Astronomers (by today's standards), as well as astrologers (which was very different then, from today's standards).

The old testement spoke of the signs, well before the actual birth of the "Messiah". The Star was included in that scripture.

v/r

Q

Hi. I missed you guys.

Forgive me for beating dead horses but in regard to this conversation I thought that the above statement was a pretty good one, Quahom.

This thread sounds like an attempt at bringing CR to Sunday worship at the Kingdom Hall -
The J-Dubs certainly spend alot of time picking apart the bible to disprove the message and the characters. But if you're gonna make the rest of the world understand your point of view, I guess you have to reprogram the thinking process, eh? Disprove everything so you can reprove it. Why would you study a bible that does not speak to you in a positive light? But I almost forgot. The NWT is a bit different. Man gives Jehovah glory in spotting Satan in his every move. But what else is going on while you're so busy watching Satan - learning all of Satan's tactics and what not? Who becomes your master then?

 

[mee]

Hi. I missed you guys.

Forgive me for beating dead horses but in regard to this conversation I thought that the above statement was a pretty good one, Quahom.

This thread sounds like an attempt at bringing CR to Sunday worship at the Kingdom Hall -
The J-Dubs certainly spend alot of time picking apart the bible to disprove the message and the characters. But if you're gonna make the rest of the world understand your point of view, I guess you have to reprogram the thinking process, eh? Disprove everything so you can reprove it. Why would you study a bible that does not speak to you in a positive light? But I almost forgot. The NWT is a bit different. Man gives Jehovah glory in spotting Satan in his every move. But what else is going on while you're so busy watching Satan - learning all of Satan's tactics and what not? Who becomes your master then?

I try to never forget that the whole world is lieing in the power of the wicked one....1;john 5;19the wicked one being satan the devil. remember that the name satan means (resister) or (opposer)and it was satans purpose to have Jesus killed .the bible does speak to me in a positive note because Gods purpose for the earth will come about even thou at this point in time satan is very active in the world .thats why the bible warns us of his crafty acts......1 peter 5;8-9also rev 12;9
So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him......

And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light .......2 corinthians 11;14

that we may not be overreached by Satan, for we are not ignorant of his designs 2 corinthians 2;11......so being busy to not be overreached by satan is something that all true christians should be on guard against while they go about there christian life in line the bible .there is only one master that i look to and that is Jesus christ because he only did and said what his father Jehovah God told him to do . so Jesus is my master .for me i love to look into the bible and learn and take in accurate knowledge based on truth because it leads to everlasting life....john 17;3
This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ

 

[Bandit]

i would agree with most of that. we do need to know how the adversary operates if we intend on winning the battle. Like friciton.

I see where God is working, the devil also has a job to do. Giving God all the glory for victory over the devil & his works.

 

[Quahom1]

I try to never forget that the whole world is lieing in the power of the wicked one....1;john 5;19the wicked one being satan the devil. remember that the name satan means (resister) or (opposer)and it was satans purpose to have Jesus killed .the bible does speak to me in a positive note because Gods purpose for the earth will come about even thou at this point in time satan is very active in the world .thats why the bible warns us of his crafty acts......1 peter 5;8-9also rev 12;9
So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him......

And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light .......2 corinthians 11;14

that we may not be overreached by Satan, for we are not ignorant of his designs 2 corinthians 2;11......so being busy to not be overreached by satan is something that all true christians should be on guard against while they go about there christian life in line the bible .there is only one master that i look to and that is Jesus christ because he only did and said what his father Jehovah God told him to do . so Jesus is my master .for me i love to look into the bible and learn and take in accurate knowledge based on truth because it leads to everlasting life....john 17;3
This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ

"Satan" means accuser. There are more than one "satan". Lucifer, the chief architect of the rebellion in heaven, would much rather have had Jesus spared from death. This would have destroyed God's plan of redeeming Man, completely. Had Lucifer succeeded in stopping the excution of Jesus, he would have beaten God.

Now he settles for trying to steal or break or turn, as many souls from God as he can before the end of his days.

But, the Devil, can not be in all places at once. People keep falling, then looking towards God, and picking themselves up and rebuilding their lives, hopes and dreams. They are bolstered by the Holy Spirit of God, who is everywhere, always.

That is the message of the NT. There is hope where there is faith, and there is power where there is love.

v/r

Q

 

[truthseeker]

I try to never forget that the whole world is lieing in the power of the wicked one....1;john 5;19the wicked one being satan the devil. remember that the name satan means (resister) or (opposer)and it was satans purpose to have Jesus killed .the bible does speak to me in a positive note because Gods purpose for the earth will come about even thou at this point in time satan is very active in the world .thats why the bible warns us of his crafty acts......1 peter 5;8-9also rev 12;9
So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him......

And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light .......2 corinthians 11;14

that we may not be overreached by Satan, for we are not ignorant of his designs 2 corinthians 2;11......so being busy to not be overreached by satan is something that all true christians should be on guard against while they go about there christian life in line the bible .there is only one master that i look to and that is Jesus christ because he only did and said what his father Jehovah God told him to do . so Jesus is my master .for me i love to look into the bible and learn and take in accurate knowledge based on truth because it leads to everlasting life....john 17;3
This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ

Your own thoughts appear to be more sound then your Watchtower and Awake! pastings.
Yes, Christians should definately be aware of the power of the wicked one. That is why Jehovah gives us the armor (Ephesians 6:12-15; a scripture I like to quote quite often...) so that we can stand against the wicked one. Humankind is too simple to be masters of the love of God and masters of the ways of the wicked one. Food for thought is 'you are what you eat'. You can be a jack of both trades but in the end you shall awake to the hand of the master that you had unwittingly chosen long ago. You know better, mee. You cannot plant your feet firmly in the doctrine of the Jehovah's Witnesses and at the same time counsel with those of different belief.

 

[mee]

Your own thoughts appear to be more sound then your Watchtower and Awake! pastings.
Yes, Christians should definately be aware of the power of the wicked one. That is why Jehovah gives us the armor (Ephesians 6:12-15; a scripture I like to quote quite often...) so that we can stand against the wicked one. Humankind is too simple to be masters of the love of God and masters of the ways of the wicked one. Food for thought is 'you are what you eat'. You can be a jack of both trades but in the end you shall awake to the hand of the master that you had unwittingly chosen long ago. You know better, mee. You cannot plant your feet firmly in the doctrine of the Jehovah's Witnesses and at the same time counsel with those of different belief.

i am a bit confused ,it is not my place to counsel anyone,when i spoke about the whole world lieing in the power of the wicked one i was applying it to myself.at the beginning of the post i said , i try to never forget that the world world is in the power of the wicked one

 

[truthseeker]

Oh mee.
That's not what I meant.
You're a strange one to me, though. I wonder if you are a baptized JW, or maybe you just haven't been with JW's that long. Usually a JW would not talk the way CR talks with those outside of the belief unless it was for the intention of bringing them in. What would a Jehovah Witness want with Comparative-Religion? But you needn't answer that.
There is a reason why my name is Truthseeker.

I'm sorry to divert the attention away from the star. Seems like even the astrologers sought a way to get closer to God....

 

[Quahom1]

Oh mee.
That's not what I meant.
You're a strange one to me, though. I wonder if you are a baptized JW, or maybe you just haven't been with JW's that long. Usually a JW would not talk the way CR talks with those outside of the belief unless it was for the intention of bringing them in. What would a Jehovah Witness want with Comparative-Religion? But you needn't answer that.
There is a reason why my name is Truthseeker.

I'm sorry to divert the attention away from the star. Seems like even the astrologers sought a way to get closer to God....

I'm afraid I take notion to that. I may get ruffled with Mee's thoughts, but I do not question his heart felt beliefs, then call it seeking the truth. Be careful Truthseeker. That was riding right on the edge.

I suggest you take a crack at...cathholics... I'm quite game.

v/r

Q

 

[truthseeker]

I'm afraid I take notion to that. I may get ruffled with Mee's thoughts, but I do not question his heart felt beliefs, then call it seeking the truth. Be careful Truthseeker. That was riding right on the edge.

I suggest you take a crack at...cathholics... I'm quite game.

v/r

Q

I don't question mee's heart felt beliefs either, Quahom.

Perhaps I would take a crack at catholics... if I knew what it is to be Catholic.

 

[mee]

Oh mee.
That's not what I meant.
You're a strange one to me, though. I wonder if you are a baptized JW, or maybe you just haven't been with JW's that long. Usually a JW would not talk the way CR talks with those outside of the belief unless it was for the intention of bringing them in. What would a Jehovah Witness want with Comparative-Religion? But you needn't answer that.
There is a reason why my name is Truthseeker.

I'm sorry to divert the attention away from the star. Seems like even the astrologers sought a way to get closer to God....

LOL yes i am even stranger in the flesh ,it is not a pretty sight first thing in the morning. maybe you have been listening to the wrong people .JW love talking to others about lots of things . maybe its because you only know JW as going from door to door they are there to tell others about the Good news of the kingdom in that setting . but we are not robots we can speak to who we like. dont be misled to believe what others tell you ....oh dear am i counseling you ? anyway getting back to stars i thought this was interesting
Daniel chapter 12, by simile, those persons "having insight" and bringing others to righteousness are pictured as shining "like the stars" in "the time of the end." (Da 12:3, 9, 10) By contrast, immoral deviators from truth are compared to "stars with no set course."—Jude 13. so in the last days it tells us that there would be those having insight ,so Jehovah God and Jesus christ must be revealing his truth in these last days through those having insight, who would you say are those having insight

 

[truthseeker]

LOL yes i am even stranger in the flesh ,it is not a pretty sight first thing in the morning. maybe you have been listening to the wrong people .JW love talking to others about lots of things . maybe its because you only know JW as going from door to door they are there to tell others about the Good news of the kingdom in that setting . but we are not robots we can speak to who we like. dont be misled to believe what others tell you

Maybe I have been listening to the wrong people. I grew up in the Kingdom Hall. But people are people and I guess you can't judge the whole sect by a few rotten congregations.

....oh dear am i counseling you ?

anyway getting back to stars i thought this was interesting
Daniel chapter 12, by simile, those persons "having insight" and bringing others to righteousness are pictured as shining "like the stars" in "the time of the end." (Da 12:3, 9, 10) By contrast, immoral deviators from truth are compared to "stars with no set course."—Jude 13. so in the last days it tells us that there would be those having insight ,so Jehovah God and Jesus christ must be revealing his truth in these last days through those having insight, who would you say are those having insight

Quite interesting indeed.
Those walking in the word of God - those who strive to live thier lives by God's moral code, righteousness, truth - would be those having insight(?).

 

[Quahom1]

I don't question mee's heart felt beliefs either, Quahom.

Perhaps I would take a crack at catholics... if I knew what it is to be Catholic.

That's easy. We got this guy in Italy who wears a funny looking hat, carries a staff with a hook on the top, and who talks in a dead language. We use worry beads with a cross hanging off the bottom of it, and our church usually has really old looking statues of people from the past with funny circles over the tops of their heads. We swear that wine and bread become the actual blood and body of Christ. We burn lots of incense during services, and ring bells throughout communion. We call Mary the mother of God and that really drives folks nuts. And we take the nativity and Birth of Jesus very seriously...including the Star of Bethlehem.

We also accept evolution as a logical concept of the development of this universe and man, though not necessarrily the mechanisms suggested (such as random factors and natural selection).

Some of us believe in purgatory, ask the saint to intercede in our behalf, and staunchly defend the concept of the Holy Trinity of God.

That should give you enough seeding material to go to town...

v/r

Q

oh yea, we actually have a figure of Christ hanging on our crosses which we call "crucifixes"...

 

[mee]

Maybe I have been listening to the wrong people. I grew up in the Kingdom Hall. But people are people and I guess you can't judge the whole sect by a few rotten congregations.



Quite interesting indeed.
Those walking in the word of God - those who strive to live thier lives by God's moral code, righteousness, truth - would be those having insight(?).

yes i agree those striving to walk in the word of god and live their lives by Gods moral code ,in rightousness and truth -would be those ones . so according to the bible it tells us that the channel is active right now to recieve the spiritual food at the right time to gain every thing about insight matt;24-45-47 trouble is there is only one channel oh i think the saying is apples by the way

 

[mee]

That's easy. We got this guy in Italy who wears a funny looking hat, carries a staff with a hook on the top, and who talks in a dead language. We use worry beads with a cross hanging off the bottom of it, and our church usually has really old looking statues of people from the past with funny circles over the tops of their heads. We swear that wine and bread become the actual blood and body of Christ. We burn lots of incense during services, and ring bells throughout communion. We call Mary the mother of God and that really drives folks nuts. And we take the nativity and Birth of Jesus very seriously...including the Star of Bethlehem.

We also accept evolution as a logical concept of the development of this universe and man, though not necessarrily the mechanisms suggested (such as random factors and natural selection).

Some of us believe in purgatory, ask the saint to intercede in our behalf, and staunchly defend the concept of the Holy Trinity of God.

That should give you enough seeding material to go to town...

v/r

Q

oh yea, we actually have a figure of Christ hanging on our crosses which we call "crucifixes"...

LOL

 

[truthseeker]

That's easy. We got this guy in Italy who wears a funny looking hat, carries a staff with a hook on the top, and who talks in a dead language. We use worry beads with a cross hanging off the bottom of it, and our church usually has really old looking statues of people from the past with funny circles over the tops of their heads. We swear that wine and bread become the actual blood and body of Christ. We burn lots of incense during services, and ring bells throughout communion. We call Mary the mother of God and that really drives folks nuts. And we take the nativity and Birth of Jesus very seriously...including the Star of Bethlehem.

We also accept evolution as a logical concept of the development of this universe and man, though not necessarrily the mechanisms suggested (such as random factors and natural selection).

Some of us believe in purgatory, ask the saint to intercede in our behalf, and staunchly defend the concept of the Holy Trinity of God.

That should give you enough seeding material to go to town...

v/r

Q

oh yea, we actually have a figure of Christ hanging on our crosses which we call "crucifixes"...

My godfather is Jewish. His godmother was Catholic. I had never asked him anything about the Jewish faith because I didn't want to look stupid. But stupid is as stupid does so I asked him a few stupid questions. It was the questions that he asked me about Christianity that made me kinda smart though.
Anyhow, I learned that he has gone to a couple of catholic masses. He found beauty and awe in the devoutness of the ceremony. The beauty of the icons made him want to pray. The color and spirit of the reverence of mass left him in the heightened spirit of love.
I've never been to mass. But his description gave me a deep respect for those dedicated to the wholeness of the faith. There are a few catholic cathedrals around here. I think I want to see what my Jewish godfather was talking about.