juantoo3
....whys guy.... ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb
lunamoth said:Knowing me I'd end up quite a bit further than 15 miles from the center (I've been off-center my whole life).
lunamoth
I can relate, only too well...
I can relate, only too well...
Fine, then there is alway the "Southern Cross", and "Orion's belt" to point the way. (Read that as the general direction North).lunamoth said:Knowing me I'd end up quite a bit further than 15 miles from the center (I've been off-center my whole life
lunamoth
Magnetic North is relative, as it changes from year to year...true north is true north, fixed. The stars are not. (in reality they change position too, regardless of how slight).
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Bandit
Guest
LOL i know, the whole thing is kind of goofy. it is a good thing they were not traveling from north to south.lunamoth said:
this was a 'special' star.
it would be like following the sun, eventually you would end up in the pacific ocean, depending on what time of year would decide what part of California (so to speak).
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mee
Guest
"Star" Seen After Jesus’ Birth. The "astrologers from eastern parts," hence from the neighborhood of Babylon, whose visit to King Herod after the birth of Jesus resulted in the slaughter of all the male infants in Bethlehem, were obviously not servants or worshipers of the true God. (Mt 2:1-18; As to the "star" (Gr., a·ster´) seen by them, many suggestions have been given as to its having been a comet, a meteor, a supernova, or, more popularly, a conjunction of planets. None of such bodies could logically have ‘come to a stop above where the young child was,’ thereby identifying the one house in the village of Bethlehem where the child was found. It is also notable that only these pagan astrologers "saw" the star. Their condemned practice of astrology and the adverse results of their visit, placing in danger the life of the future Messiah, certainly allow for, and even make advisable, the consideration of their having been directed by a source adverse to God’s purposes as relating to the promised Messiah. It is certainly reasonable to ask if the one who "keeps transforming himself into an angel of light," whose operation is "with every powerful work and lying signs and portents," who was able to make a serpent appear to speak, and who was referred to by Jesus as "a manslayer when he began," could not also cause astrologers to ‘see’ a starlike object that guided them first, not to Bethlehem, but to Jerusalem, where resided a mortal enemy of the promised Messiah.—2Co 11:3, 14; 2Th 2:9; Ge 3:1-4; Joh 8:44.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Cut and paste again...Do you have no thought of your own?
One little "Christian sect" is not going to destroy the beliefs of the rest of the Christian body. I don't care what your elders think. What do you think MEE?
We are all wrong and you are right? I knew exactly where you were going with this "Star" thing.
No Satan did not bring on the Star. And if your elders think yes, then they forgot the OT. If they ignore the OT then they are no better than the Gnostics, or the Copts.
Either way, or in any event, not a good way to deal with the rest of us. Your elders' points of view are scewed. One can't piecemeal bits of the Bible for one's own sake. Must take the entire Bible into context.
I've watched you sneak a little piece here, and a little piece there into our collective dialogue. No go. JWs don't have the answers either.
Once again, I will thank you not to cut and paste your faith's "dogma" here. It is getting old.
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Q
One little "Christian sect" is not going to destroy the beliefs of the rest of the Christian body. I don't care what your elders think. What do you think MEE?
We are all wrong and you are right? I knew exactly where you were going with this "Star" thing.
No Satan did not bring on the Star. And if your elders think yes, then they forgot the OT. If they ignore the OT then they are no better than the Gnostics, or the Copts.
Either way, or in any event, not a good way to deal with the rest of us. Your elders' points of view are scewed. One can't piecemeal bits of the Bible for one's own sake. Must take the entire Bible into context.
I've watched you sneak a little piece here, and a little piece there into our collective dialogue. No go. JWs don't have the answers either.
Once again, I will thank you not to cut and paste your faith's "dogma" here. It is getting old.
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mee
Guest
As i am one of Jehovahs witness then my thoughts will be in line with the rest of JW .thats what i like about being one of JW we are all in unity, in line with the bible ,if you want to believe other views that is your choice , the way i look at things is that if we are sure about our beliefs there is no stumbling blockand our faith is strong. if you want to believe that God put the star there thats fine by me , but i choose to believe that satan put the star there to lead the astrologers to Jerusalem, not to bethlehem .and yes you are so right , we have to take the bible as a whole and not piecemeal bits , just because i have a different thought on things in line with my beliefs as JW does not mean that i should keep silent about it . i am not sure what OT scripture you are refering to , i also find it interesting to look into the OT to research the prophecies about Jesus birth .maybe you could tell me where to look in the OT for the one about the star ,of coarse ,just because the bible fortells something does not always mean that God is in agreement with it .Quahom1 said:
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mee
Guest
but did it lead them to Jesus? or to the herod in Jerusalem , remember Herod wanted no one to take his kingship and Jesus was the fortold king of the Jews , who in Herods eyes would be a rival to herod .and as Herod was a nasty piece of work ,satan made sure that Herod found out where Jesus was , but because Jehovah intervined his life was saved .so the star lead them to Herod first ,then it moved to show the astrologers where Jesus was.then they would have told Herod and he would have killed Jesus ,but God stepped in by telling them to go home another way. what an evil man to kill all those babies 2 and under .thats what power can do to people who are used by satanlunamoth said:
I am more than happy to oblige. By the way, it isn't your opinion or beliefs that bother me, its pasting words that are not your own almost everytime you post, that gets a little old...mee said:As i am one of Jehovahs witness then my thoughts will be in line with the rest of JW .thats what i like about being one of JW we are all in unity, in line with the bible ,if you want to believe other views that is your choice , the way i look at things is that if we are sure about our beliefs there is no stumbling blockand our faith is strong. if you want to believe that God put the star there thats fine by me , but i choose to believe that satan put the star there to lead the astrologers to Jerusalem, not to bethlehem .and yes you are so right , we have to take the bible as a whole and not piecemeal bits , just because i have a different thought on things in line with my beliefs as JW does not mean that i should keep silent about it . i am not sure what OT scripture you are refering to , i also find it interesting to look into the OT to research the prophecies about Jesus birth .maybe you could tell me where to look in the OT for the one about the star ,of coarse ,just because the bible fortells something does not always mean that God is in agreement with it .
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mee
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well after doing some research i think that the star refered to here is refering to King David(2 samuel8;2)this was the initial fullfillment of this prophecy.since David foreshadowed Jesus as messianic king, the prophecy would also apply to jesus at the time when he subdues his enemies. (Isaiah 9;7) (psalm2;8,9)so it is not refering to the star in the sky that the astrologers followedQuahom1 said:
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Bandit
Guest
"Where is he who is born King of the Jews? For we saw his star in the east, and have come to worship him."
it seems to me, both, the star & the worship belong to Jesus.
we could interpret, the devil pushed glenda the good witch out of her glass bubble, jumped inside & he turned into a big lightening bug. the devil floated into the sky & whispered to the astrologers...follow my devil star & you will find the child & you can worship me.
hmmm, what imagination can do.
in years passed, i have found english teachers who do not even believe in the bible, to be some of the best interpreters ever.
it seems to me, both, the star & the worship belong to Jesus.
we could interpret, the devil pushed glenda the good witch out of her glass bubble, jumped inside & he turned into a big lightening bug. the devil floated into the sky & whispered to the astrologers...follow my devil star & you will find the child & you can worship me.
hmmm, what imagination can do.
in years passed, i have found english teachers who do not even believe in the bible, to be some of the best interpreters ever.
Except that David was human...not a star, and Jesus never subdued anyone. And the MAGI were not astrologers in the current sense. They were men of great wisdom of the time. They were Astronomers. They were monotheists, and they were seeking the savior. Smart men those Magi. They also had God's favor. (special favor I should think). And they listened to the word of God, and obeyed Him to the letter and spirit of the law.mee said:
Another lesson for us to learn...
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lunamoth
Episcopalian
Bandit said:"Where is he who is born King of the Jews? For we saw his star in the east, and have come to worship him."
it seems to me, both, the star & the worship belong to Jesus.
Hiya Bandit, I agree.
lunamoth
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mee
Guest
as far as i am aware , the bible does at times refer humans to stars.Stars are used in the bible in a figurative sense and in metaphors or similes to represent persons, as an example, there is Genesis 37;9 -10were Josephes dream inwhich his parents were represented by the sun and moon, and his 11 brothers by 11 stars. Jesus will subdue ,that is part of his aurthority ,as psalm 110;1-2 informs us that Jesus will go subduing in the mist of his enemies.Quahom1 said:
(Revelation 6:2) And I saw, and, look! a white horse; and the one seated upon it had a bow; and a crown was given him, and he went forth conquering and to complete his conquest.
also jesus himself spoke of himself as the bright morning star
"‘I, Jesus, sent my angel to bear witness to YOU people of these things for the congregations. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright morning star.(rev 22;16) any way , those astrologers were not that smart they were 2 years late because Jesus was about 2 by then ,thats why herod had the baby boys killed 2 and under to make sure he killed Jesus
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mee
Guest
according to the bible Jehovah anounced the birth of Jesus this way to his followersBandit said:"Where is he who is born King of the Jews? For we saw his star in the east, and have come to worship him."
it seems to me, both, the star & the worship belong to Jesus.
we could interpret, the devil pushed glenda the good witch out of her glass bubble, jumped inside & he turned into a big lightening bug. the devil floated into the sky & whispered to the astrologers...follow my devil star & you will find the child & you can worship me.
hmmm, what imagination can do.
in years passed, i have found english teachers who do not even believe in the bible, to be some of the best interpreters ever.
"There were also in that same country shepherds living out of doors and keeping watches in the night over their flocks. And suddenly Jehovah’s angel stood by them, and Jehovah’s glory gleamed around them, and they became very fearful. But the angel said to them: ‘Have no fear, for, look! I am declaring to you good news of a great joy that all the people will have, because there was born to you today a Savior, who is Christ the Lord, in David’s city. And this is a sign for you: you will find an infant bound in cloth bands and lying in a manger.’ And suddenly there came to be with the angel a multitude of the heavenly army, praising God and saying: ‘Glory in the heights above to God, and upon earth peace among men of goodwill.’"—Luke 2:8-14.so Jehovah did it through an angel not a star
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Bandit
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Then Herod secretly called the wise men, and learned from them exactly what time the star appeared.....mee said:
.....Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked by the wise men, was exceedingly angry, and sent out, and killed all the male children who were in Bethlehem and in all the surrounding countryside, from two years old and under, according to the exact time which he had learned from the wise men.
i would say the wise men were not late but right on time.
& that God did also use the star to announce the birth of Jesus. (when & where)
& I would say these men were very smart, because they listened to God in the dream & not Herod.
Now it appears to me that they saw the star at the same time, or about the same time Jesus was born. Given that Herod asked what time the star appeared & his decree to kill males under two, tells me the wise men must have been watching it for about two years before they travelled.
It was not until after Herod realized he had been mocked by the wise men, that he put the decree out to kill all 2 & under...
From this we see 2 other prophecies being fulfilled - ( Ramah, lamentation, weeping and great mourning)
AND
"Out of Egypt I called my son."
Just because someone may live in a bad area does not mean every person living there is evil & there is nothing in there that tells us the wise men were evil watching an evil star. Nothing.
Only someone today surmizing.
Anyway Mee, I give up & you win, it was a devil worship star.
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mee
Guest
i would just like to make clear that the reason i started this thread was to reason on the scriptures ,and not to win anything .i am sorry that it was taken that way that was not my intention. but for me , the bible tells me that Jesus was prophecied to be born in bethlehem and he was ,but the astrologers were taken to where Jesus was now living 2 years later ,Bandit said:Then Herod secretly called the wise men, and learned from them exactly what time the star appeared.....
.....Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked by the wise men, was exceedingly angry, and sent out, and killed all the male children who were in Bethlehem and in all the surrounding countryside, from two years old and under, according to the exact time which he had learned from the wise men.
i would say the wise men were not late but right on time.
& that God did also use the star to announce the birth of Jesus. (when & where)
& I would say these men were very smart, because they listened to God in the dream & not Herod.
Now it appears to me that they saw the star at the same time, or about the same time Jesus was born. Given that Herod asked what time the star appeared & his decree to kill males under two, tells me the wise men must have been watching it for about two years before they travelled.
It was not until after Herod realized he had been mocked by the wise men, that he put the decree out to kill all 2 & under...
From this we see 2 other prophecies being fulfilled - ( Ramah, lamentation, weeping and great mourning)
AND
"Out of Egypt I called my son."
Just because someone may live in a bad area does not mean every person living there is evil & there is nothing in there that tells us the wise men were evil watching an evil star. Nothing.
Only someone today surmizing.
Anyway Mee, I give up & you win, it was a devil worship star.
So all the evidence is against the "star" being from God, for God does not direct his people by movements of stars. But those magi were astrologers and star worshipers, no matter how sincere their hearts might have been respecting the "King of the Jews". (Deut. 4:19; 2 Ki. 17:16; Isa. 47:13, 14) The Devil used them unwittingly in an attempt against the life of the young child Jesus .and yes ,you are right there are many prophecies relating to Jesus that were fullfilled
Messianic prophecy is also found in the book of Hosea. Matthew applied the words of Hosea 11:1 ("out of Egypt I called my son") to the child Jesus, who was taken into Egypt but was later brought back to Israel.—Mt 2:14, 15
I would like to see the specific evidence proving:mee said:
The star was not of, nor from God.
The Magi were "star worshipers"
The Magi were astrologers (implying they used the movements of the heavenly bodies to reveal the future). Seems to me they used the movements of the heavenly bodies to prove prophecies already revealed.
The Magi were not wise enough to note the evil of Herodus.
It took them two years to find Jesus? It took them much longer than two years. They started before He was born, and only finally found Him two years after His birth. And when the star disappeared, they gave in and asked the king of Judea where the promised one might be (which disturbed Herod greatly).
I think that God uses all for the greater good, eh, isn't that something you've said in the past?
When they found the child, the gifts they brought were not the kind of toys one gets from K-mart. Each gift foretold the future of the child, to those wise enough to realize it. Gold, Frankensence, and Mhyrr. The significance of these "gifts" to a "child" should not be left on the back burner...
Even if they carried them only two years as you imply, two years is a long time to carry such expensive and deadly serious "gifts", for an infant/toddler. By the way. Birthday gifts were not common 2000 years ago. Common folk's children certainly did not receive an audience and "gifts" of such magnitude, on a regular basis.
Reading the movement of the stars I suspect was for the Magi. Seeing the star, was I suspect, for the shepards on the night of the birth of the Savior.
But then, faith is all we really have to go on, isn't it...
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p.s. there wasn't any snow on the ground. Sheep aren't kept by shepards in snow, they're kept in pens, and it doesn't snow much in Israel. Jesus was probably born in the fall (or mayhap early spring). 25 December we both agree, is a construct of convenience, for northern "pagan" folk, that the church wanted to buy into the savior...
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mee
Guest
for me i find that reasoning on the scriptures their is no evidence in the bible to say that the star was from God , the astrologers said it was , but they were not worshipers of true religion ,they were worshipers of a practice that was condemed by God.also i did not say it took them 2;years to find jesus ,i said that Jesus was about 2when they found him i dont know how long they were looking for him.Quahom1 said:I would like to see the specific evidence proving:
The star was not of, nor from God.
The Magi were "star worshipers"
The Magi were astrologers (implying they used the movements of the heavenly bodies to reveal the future). Seems to me they used the movements of the heavenly bodies to prove prophecies already revealed.
The Magi were not wise enough to note the evil of Herodus.
It took them two years to find Jesus? It took them much longer than two years. They started before He was born, and only finally found Him two years after His birth. And when the star disappeared, they gave in and asked the king of Judea where the promised one might be (which disturbed Herod greatly).
I think that God uses all for the greater good, eh, isn't that something you've said in the past?
When they found the child, the gifts they brought were not the kind of toys one gets from K-mart. Each gift foretold the future of the child, to those wise enough to realize it. Gold, Frankensence, and Mhyrr. The significance of these "gifts" to a "child" should not be left on the back burner...
Even if they carried them only two years as you imply, two years is a long time to carry such expensive and deadly serious "gifts", for an infant/toddler. By the way. Birthday gifts were not common 2000 years ago. Common folk's children certainly did not receive an audience and "gifts" of such magnitude, on a regular basis.
Reading the movement of the stars I suspect was for the Magi. Seeing the star, was I suspect, for the shepards on the night of the birth of the Savior.
But then, faith is all we really have to go on, isn't it...
v/r
Q
p.s. there wasn't any snow on the ground. Sheep aren't kept by shepards in snow, they're kept in pens, and it doesn't snow much in Israel. Jesus was probably born in the fall (or mayhap early spring). 25 December we both agree, is a construct of convenience, for northern "pagan" folk, that the church wanted to buy into the savior...
circumstantial evidence is strong that the ma´goi who visited the infant Jesus were astrologers. Thus The New Testament translated by C. B. Williams reads "star-gazers," with a footnote in explanation: "This is, students of stars in relation to events on earth." Fittingly, then, modern English translations read "astrologers" at Matthew 2:1.—AT, NE, NW, Ph......so yes the messiah was expected this would have been known by the true worshippersby looking at the scriptures .but the astrolorgersbeing involved with false religion would have heard about the king of the Jews (Jesus)but did not know where he would be born . i think satan is very much involved with false religion, but God will make sure that his(Gods) purpose will be fullfilled no matter what false religion plans out ..........also i am not sure what you mean about snow i didnt mention snow