juantoo3
....whys guy.... ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb
lunamoth said:Knowing me I'd end up quite a bit further than 15 miles from the center (I've been off-center my whole life).
lunamoth
I can relate, only too well...
lunamoth said:Knowing me I'd end up quite a bit further than 15 miles from the center (I've been off-center my whole life).
lunamoth
Fine, then there is alway the "Southern Cross", and "Orion's belt" to point the way. (Read that as the general direction North).lunamoth said:Knowing me I'd end up quite a bit further than 15 miles from the center (I've been off-center my whole life).
lunamoth
LOL i know, the whole thing is kind of goofy. it is a good thing they were not traveling from north to south.lunamoth said:OK, I now have to post a dumb question. How can you locate a point on the earth using just one star, and especially if that star is moving?
lunamoth
As i am one of Jehovahs witness then my thoughts will be in line with the rest of JW .thats what i like about being one of JW we are all in unity, in line with the bible ,if you want to believe other views that is your choice , the way i look at things is that if we are sure about our beliefs there is no stumbling blockand our faith is strong. if you want to believe that God put the star there thats fine by me , but i choose to believe that satan put the star there to lead the astrologers to Jerusalem, not to bethlehem .and yes you are so right , we have to take the bible as a whole and not piecemeal bits , just because i have a different thought on things in line with my beliefs as JW does not mean that i should keep silent about it . i am not sure what OT scripture you are refering to , i also find it interesting to look into the OT to research the prophecies about Jesus birth .maybe you could tell me where to look in the OT for the one about the star ,of coarse ,just because the bible fortells something does not always mean that God is in agreement with it .Quahom1 said:Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Cut and paste again...Do you have no thought of your own?
One little "Christian sect" is not going to destroy the beliefs of the rest of the Christian body. I don't care what your elders think. What do you think MEE?
We are all wrong and you are right? I knew exactly where you were going with this "Star" thing.
No Satan did not bring on the Star. And if your elders think yes, then they forgot the OT. If they ignore the OT then they are no better than the Gnostics, or the Copts.
Either way, or in any event, not a good way to deal with the rest of us. Your elders' points of view are scewed. One can't piecemeal bits of the Bible for one's own sake. Must take the entire Bible into context.
I've watched you sneak a little piece here, and a little piece there into our collective dialogue. No go. JWs don't have the answers either.
Once again, I will thank you not to cut and paste your faith's "dogma" here. It is getting old.
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but did it lead them to Jesus? or to the herod in Jerusalem , remember Herod wanted no one to take his kingship and Jesus was the fortold king of the Jews , who in Herods eyes would be a rival to herod .and as Herod was a nasty piece of work ,satan made sure that Herod found out where Jesus was , but because Jehovah intervined his life was saved .so the star lead them to Herod first ,then it moved to show the astrologers where Jesus was.then they would have told Herod and he would have killed Jesus ,but God stepped in by telling them to go home another way. what an evil man to kill all those babies 2 and under .thats what power can do to people who are used by satanlunamoth said:OK, I now have to post a dumb question. How can you locate a point on the earth using just one star, and especially if that star is moving?
I've always viewed the star not exactly as only symbolic, but certainly being "interpreted" in the hearts of the Magi by angels or the Holy Spirit. They see a star and they walk in its direction, but really it is a divine guidance that leads them to the Christ child.
Seems like if I started walking in the direction of the North Star, which has the advantage of being "fixed," I'd probably end up cold but hard to believe I'd end up at the exact North Pole.
Don't know much 'bout astronomy (or astrology, for that matter)...
lunamoth
I am more than happy to oblige. By the way, it isn't your opinion or beliefs that bother me, its pasting words that are not your own almost everytime you post, that gets a little old...mee said:As i am one of Jehovahs witness then my thoughts will be in line with the rest of JW .thats what i like about being one of JW we are all in unity, in line with the bible ,if you want to believe other views that is your choice , the way i look at things is that if we are sure about our beliefs there is no stumbling blockand our faith is strong. if you want to believe that God put the star there thats fine by me , but i choose to believe that satan put the star there to lead the astrologers to Jerusalem, not to bethlehem .and yes you are so right , we have to take the bible as a whole and not piecemeal bits , just because i have a different thought on things in line with my beliefs as JW does not mean that i should keep silent about it . i am not sure what OT scripture you are refering to , i also find it interesting to look into the OT to research the prophecies about Jesus birth .maybe you could tell me where to look in the OT for the one about the star ,of coarse ,just because the bible fortells something does not always mean that God is in agreement with it .![]()
well after doing some research i think that the star refered to here is refering to King David(2 samuel8;2)this was the initial fullfillment of this prophecy.since David foreshadowed Jesus as messianic king, the prophecy would also apply to jesus at the time when he subdues his enemies. (Isaiah 9;7) (psalm2;8,9)so it is not refering to the star in the sky that the astrologers followedQuahom1 said:(Nu 24:17), out of Jacob...
If you accept the Bible, as fact, no more be said. If you do not, then we argue/debate.
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Except that David was human...not a star, and Jesus never subdued anyone. And the MAGI were not astrologers in the current sense. They were men of great wisdom of the time. They were Astronomers. They were monotheists, and they were seeking the savior. Smart men those Magi. They also had God's favor. (special favor I should think). And they listened to the word of God, and obeyed Him to the letter and spirit of the law.mee said:well after doing some research i think that the star refered to here is refering to King David(2 samuel8;2)this was the initial fullfillment of this prophecy.since David foreshadowed Jesus as messianic king, the prophecy would also apply to jesus at the time when he subdues his enemies. (Isaiah 9;7) (psalm2;8,9)so it is not refering to the star in the sky that the astrologers followed
Bandit said:"Where is he who is born King of the Jews? For we saw his star in the east, and have come to worship him."
it seems to me, both, the star & the worship belong to Jesus.![]()
as far as i am aware , the bible does at times refer humans to stars.Stars are used in the bible in a figurative sense and in metaphors or similes to represent persons, as an example, there is Genesis 37;9 -10were Josephes dream inwhich his parents were represented by the sun and moon, and his 11 brothers by 11 stars. Jesus will subdue ,that is part of his aurthority ,as psalm 110;1-2 informs us that Jesus will go subduing in the mist of his enemies.Quahom1 said:Except that David was human...not a star, and Jesus never subdued anyone. And the MAGI were not astrologers in the current sense. They were men of great wisdom of the time. They were Astronomers. They were monotheists, and they were seeking the savior. Smart men those Magi. They also had God's favor. (special favor I should think). And they listened to the word of God, and obeyed Him to the letter and spirit of the law.
Another lesson for us to learn...
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according to the bible Jehovah anounced the birth of Jesus this way to his followersBandit said:"Where is he who is born King of the Jews? For we saw his star in the east, and have come to worship him."
it seems to me, both, the star & the worship belong to Jesus.![]()
we could interpret, the devil pushed glenda the good witch out of her glass bubble, jumped inside & he turned into a big lightening bug. the devil floated into the sky & whispered to the astrologers...follow my devil star & you will find the child & you can worship me.
hmmm, what imagination can do.
in years passed, i have found english teachers who do not even believe in the bible, to be some of the best interpreters ever.
Then Herod secretly called the wise men, and learned from them exactly what time the star appeared.....mee said:according to the bible Jehovah anounced the birth of Jesus this way to his followers
—Luke 2:8-14.so Jehovah did it through an angel not a star
i would just like to make clear that the reason i started this thread was to reason on the scriptures ,and not to win anything .i am sorry that it was taken that way that was not my intention. but for me , the bible tells me that Jesus was prophecied to be born in bethlehem and he was ,but the astrologers were taken to where Jesus was now living 2 years later ,Bandit said:Then Herod secretly called the wise men, and learned from them exactly what time the star appeared.....
.....Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked by the wise men, was exceedingly angry, and sent out, and killed all the male children who were in Bethlehem and in all the surrounding countryside, from two years old and under, according to the exact time which he had learned from the wise men.
i would say the wise men were not late but right on time.
& that God did also use the star to announce the birth of Jesus. (when & where)
& I would say these men were very smart, because they listened to God in the dream & not Herod.
Now it appears to me that they saw the star at the same time, or about the same time Jesus was born. Given that Herod asked what time the star appeared & his decree to kill males under two, tells me the wise men must have been watching it for about two years before they travelled.
It was not until after Herod realized he had been mocked by the wise men, that he put the decree out to kill all 2 & under...
From this we see 2 other prophecies being fulfilled - ( Ramah, lamentation, weeping and great mourning)
AND
"Out of Egypt I called my son."
Just because someone may live in a bad area does not mean every person living there is evil & there is nothing in there that tells us the wise men were evil watching an evil star. Nothing.![]()
Only someone today surmizing.
Anyway Mee, I give up & you win, it was a devil worship star.![]()
I would like to see the specific evidence proving:mee said:i would just like to make clear that the reason i started this thread was to reason on the scriptures ,and not to win anything .i am sorry that it was taken that way that was not my intention. but for me , the bible tells me that Jesus was prophecied to be born in bethlehem and he was ,but the astrologers were taken to where Jesus was now living 2 years later ,
So all the evidence is against the "star" being from God, for God does not direct his people by movements of stars. But those magi were astrologers and star worshipers, no matter how sincere their hearts might have been respecting the "King of the Jews". (Deut. 4:19; 2 Ki. 17:16; Isa. 47:13, 14) The Devil used them unwittingly in an attempt against the life of the young child Jesus .and yes ,you are right there are many prophecies relating to Jesus that were fullfilled
Messianic prophecy is also found in the book of Hosea. Matthew applied the words of Hosea 11:1 ("out of Egypt I called my son") to the child Jesus, who was taken into Egypt but was later brought back to Israel.—Mt 2:14, 15
for me i find that reasoning on the scriptures their is no evidence in the bible to say that the star was from God , the astrologers said it was , but they were not worshipers of true religion ,they were worshipers of a practice that was condemed by God.also i did not say it took them 2;years to find jesus ,i said that Jesus was about 2when they found him i dont know how long they were looking for him.Quahom1 said:I would like to see the specific evidence proving:
The star was not of, nor from God.
The Magi were "star worshipers"
The Magi were astrologers (implying they used the movements of the heavenly bodies to reveal the future). Seems to me they used the movements of the heavenly bodies to prove prophecies already revealed.
The Magi were not wise enough to note the evil of Herodus.
It took them two years to find Jesus? It took them much longer than two years. They started before He was born, and only finally found Him two years after His birth. And when the star disappeared, they gave in and asked the king of Judea where the promised one might be (which disturbed Herod greatly).
I think that God uses all for the greater good, eh, isn't that something you've said in the past?
When they found the child, the gifts they brought were not the kind of toys one gets from K-mart. Each gift foretold the future of the child, to those wise enough to realize it. Gold, Frankensence, and Mhyrr. The significance of these "gifts" to a "child" should not be left on the back burner...
Even if they carried them only two years as you imply, two years is a long time to carry such expensive and deadly serious "gifts", for an infant/toddler. By the way. Birthday gifts were not common 2000 years ago. Common folk's children certainly did not receive an audience and "gifts" of such magnitude, on a regular basis.
Reading the movement of the stars I suspect was for the Magi. Seeing the star, was I suspect, for the shepards on the night of the birth of the Savior.
But then, faith is all we really have to go on, isn't it...![]()
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p.s. there wasn't any snow on the ground. Sheep aren't kept by shepards in snow, they're kept in pens, and it doesn't snow much in Israel. Jesus was probably born in the fall (or mayhap early spring). 25 December we both agree, is a construct of convenience, for northern "pagan" folk, that the church wanted to buy into the savior...