Einstein on true visionaries

[Abogado del Diablo]

I love this passage. From Einstein's "Religion and Science" published in the New York Times Magazine in 1930:

"The religious geniuses of all ages have been distinguished by the kind of religious feeling which knows no dogma and no God conceived in man's image, so that there can be no church whose central teachings are based on it. Hence it is precisely among the heretics of every age that we find men who were filled with this highest kinkd of religious feeling and were, in many cases, regarded by the contemporaries as atheists, sometimes also as saints. Looked at in this light men like Democritus, Francis of Assisi and Spinoza are closely akin to one another."

 

[lunamoth]

I love this passage. From Einstein's "Religion and Science" published in the New York Times Magazine in 1930:

"The religious geniuses of all ages have been distinguished by the kind of religious feeling which knows no dogma and no God conceived in man's image, so that there can be no church whose central teachings are based on it. Hence it is precisely among the heretics of every age that we find men who were filled with this highest kinkd of religious feeling and were, in many cases, regarded by the contemporaries as atheists, sometimes also as saints. Looked at in this light men like Democritus, Francis of Assisi and Spinoza are closely akin to one another."

Hi AdD,

Interesting quote. I've often thought of visionaries and prophets as like lightning rods. The static builds and builds, there are smaller flashes of electrical charge, and suddenly a giant bolt when just the right receptive and intelligent person puts it all together. The veil is ripped and the paradigm shifts. In fact I had Einstein in mind when I came up with this metaphor.

lunamoth

 

[Abogado del Diablo]

Hi AdD,

Interesting quote. I've often thought of visionaries and prophets as like lightning rods. The static builds and builds, there are smaller flashes of electrical charge, and suddenly a giant bolt when just the right receptive and intelligent person puts it all together. The veil is ripped and the paradigm shifts. In fact I had Einstein in mind when I came up with this metaphor.

lunamoth

I think Einstein got it wrong though. The rare visionairies shift the paradigm, but it is quickly misunderstood and the metaphors these visionaries used to express Truth are eventually taken literally and become the doctrines of churches by those who don't understand the meaning.

 

[wil]

The rare visionairies shift the paradigm, but it is quickly misunderstood and the metaphors these visionaries used to express Truth are eventually taken literally and become the doctrines of churches by those who don't understand the meaning.

If we were to agree with this statement....or backwards engineer it (ie look at what metaphors were written and spoken and now are taken litterally)

Who would we include in the group of "these rare visionaries"?

 

[Dream]

This quote may be a product of Einsteins own experience in getting discovered. He spent many years in obscurity until he was discovered by Maxwell.

 

[radarmark]

Hardly, five yrears from graduation to the remarkable year of 1905. And I hope the Maxwell quip was a joke (he died 7 months after Einstein's birth).

I do love the quote, AdD, and I agree with your critical reading of it (visions become dogma). Yet I believe we have somewhat progressed. We no longer sacrifice babies (thak you Moses), we no longer see G!d as unloving (thank you Jesus), we no longer see G!d as unconcerned with justice (thank you Muhammed), we no longer think that we can mouth words (thank you Guru Nanak), we no longer believe in the emnity of other people of faith (thank you Bahá'u'lláh)

Pax et amore omnia vincunt!

 

[wil]

Now that was a list....

Moses
Jesus
Muhammed
Nanak
Bahaullah


Would anyone agree that these folks provided us metaphor that is now taken litterally?

(I'm running with it even though RM is highlighting benefits of literal translations)

 

[radarmark]

Note, partial list... and I believe you will find literalists among all the groups mentioned (Jews, Christians, Muslims, Sikhs, and Bahais). I am, if nothing else, an equal opportunity offender!

 

[Dream]

Hardly, five yrears from graduation to the remarkable year of 1905. And I hope the Maxwell quip was a joke (he died 7 months after Einstein's birth).

I think I may have gotten it backwards.

 

[Ben Masada]

I love this passage. From Einstein's "Religion and Science" published in the New York Times Magazine in 1930:

"The religious geniuses of all ages have been distinguished by the kind of religious feeling which knows no dogma and no God conceived in man's image, so that there can be no church whose central teachings are based on it. Hence it is precisely among the heretics of every age that we find men who were filled with this highest kinkd of religious feeling and were, in many cases, regarded by the contemporaries as atheists, sometimes also as saints. Looked at in this light men like Democritus, Francis of Assisi and Spinoza are closely akin to one another."

I think that the heresy consists in the comparison of Einstein and Baruch de Spinoza with a fundamentalist Catholic like Francis of Assisi. Once Einstein declared that he was no atheist or pantheist, and, for that matter, a Theist of a personal God. He simply meant that God was not personal. We can indeed strike a personal relationship with God, but the connection will occur on an one-way street. God is not a personal entity. God is a Spirit, therefore, immaterial and incorporeal.
Ben

 

[DT Strain]

..."there can be no church whose central teachings are based on it."

Could there not be a church whose teachings are precisely to beware dogmatic thinking, and look toward the unknown with humility, to explore for yourself, to be mindful of your delusions and attachments? To question?

The Unitarians and the Buddhist Kalama Sutra comes to my mind.

 

[radarmark]

Take a look at unprogrammed ("liberal", though we think we were the original, or "Friends General Conference") Quakers. No dogma.

Pax et amore omnia vincunt!

 

[IowaGuy]

Radar - what would you say is the difference between Unitarian Universalists and Quakers if neither have dogma? I have been to Unitarian services, but never to a Quaker service.

Here in rural Iowa it's pretty much a choice between Catholic or a mix of traditional Protestant churches

 

[DT Strain]

I've heard many good things about the Quakers too

 

[radarmark]

IG. We practice "silent worship" (kinda a group meditation) in which anyone moved by the light makes ministry. That is in an "unprogrammed" meeting. The main focus is always on "seeing that of G!d in everyone" and "the still voice within". Oh, and the traditional Quaker "go out unto the world" witnessing: pacifism, truth, justice, inclusivity... Go to Friends General Council and see where nearest Meeting is.