Spiritual fascism

Therapon? what's with you. Where are you coming from. Did you have anything that amounts to anything like what might be a enlightening experience? If you gain in this direction you should start to understand the writings of others who have been enlightened whereas before you didn't. In my opinion looking at the Dali Lama astrology chart one sees moon conj.Neptune I believe and so one can see how kindness would be a path for him or may work for many. I do think we are all geared to our own paths, some more strongly than others in spiritual ways. A practice such as yoga which may take you within to a common field is also valid. My experience takes me beyond into the sacred space eliminating any "other." Nealedonaldwalsch. writes a book "when there no one left but you and God". God being infinity. Non dual, non judgemental. Believe me if you experience that place you will know it. Know it.
Does that make one more spiritual enlightened? Well, it did me in the sense that it was beyond any belief systems and astrology would say that belief systems are the 9th house ruled by Jupiter so I quess that wipes out all that. So that wiped out nature, and astrology and beliefs in general. Well, that's what one book said would happen. Your previous world would be destroyed. The understanding of a dual world for a non dual, non judgemental, infinitely calm peaceful consciousness. I don't think anyone would be running around boasting of their spiritual superiority. I think they'd be more befuddled. "what just happened!" sense of things.
So if there's ultimately no "other" then everyone I think I see is a projection or a mirror? Well, so here I am, now what? What. So there are no enemies other than beliefs. Beliefs are the enemy. Look at all the trouble they create. What'd you think of that. Not that it matters. Other than as another looking glass and I have so many.
Maybe it's taking me somewhere yet to happen. These unexplored paths as we enter Aries, we become the pioneers of -
 
woodsyroots said:
I was re reading that original post spiritual fascism. I don't know anyone who would present themselves like that or that arguement.
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Spiritual fascism may be overstating it a tad bit.

However, one of the best books that I've read is Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism by Chogyam Trungpa. I do think that spiritual materialism is a pitfall any devotee to religion faces.

Seems to me that in the world today there are plenty of examples of it.
 
In Judaism, after the shacharis (morning prayer) we recite the quote from the Talmud: "Talmidei chachomim marbim sholaym boaylom", which means: "Knowers of the Talmud increase peace in the World.
How do they increase peace? My favorite interpretation is: One, who knows only a little, and sees someone doing something differently, than how he learned, starts arguing, and tells him, that he is doing wrong. If a person who knows a lot sees someone doing it differently, he doesn't argue, because he knows that what he knows is not the only possible way, the other one can be right too...
 
citizenzen said:
Spiritual fascism may be overstating it a tad bit.

However, one of the best books that I've read is Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism by Chogyam Trungpa. I do think that spiritual materialism is a pitfall any devotee to religion faces.

Seems to me that in the world today there are plenty of examples of it.
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Should be required reading :)
 
Lichtik said:
In Judaism, after the shacharis (morning prayer) we recite the quote from the Talmud: "Talmidei chachomim marbim sholaym boaylom", which means: "Knowers of the Talmud increase peace in the World.
How do they increase peace? My favorite interpretation is: One, who knows only a little, and sees someone doing something differently, than how he learned, starts arguing, and tells him, that he is doing wrong. If a person who knows a lot sees someone doing it differently, he doesn't argue, because he knows that what he knows is not the only possible way, the other one can be right too...
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Lichtik, I consider that a wise way of thinking!

My experience confirms that.

But sometimes I argue with someone anyway just to understand them better.:):D It doesn't always hurt to poke, prod and stir the pot!
 
Whether intended or not, I see more than a few beliefs expressed here that are steps towards fascism: don't think individually, don't argue, required reading, followed then by required action, and required relationship.

Lets examine argument: Schools, universities, philosophists, debaters, darn near anyone who communicates... employs argument to help educate themselves and each other. It takes two to argue. Are they fascists?

How about thinking: The other aspect of learning is experience, putting words into experience, and experience into words, and comparing them to learn from them. Again, an activity partaken by choice. Is that fascism?

If a group of people, like government, enforces their schooling or some form of activity, then you start approaching fascism... but not quite there yet. Fascism is about infecting the relationships between people and organizations to make them soldiers in propagating the belief and delivering up the control. That is accomplished with sheer enforcement, in tandem with promoting the statements for delivering the method of control. A proponent of fascism puts forward an argument, but does not stop there. Not just raised fists either. More like making every parent deliver a pledge of allegiance to their children, or making every company enforce drug and alcohol testing. The goal of the fascist is to infect the relationships between others by enforcement, making them party to the enforcement. They might even be values deemed good by the overwhelming majority, but fascism is more about the delivery method. It doesn't have to be government. It can very well be a church, a business strategy, or a method of parenting.

I have personally witnessed fascism increasing in the USA like a plague. I realize a statement like that will inflame and cause instant denial in some. So sorry. I came across it because I am a small business owner in the USA, and I have come across those who enforce their rules on your relationships. The antidote, or the belief that is counter-fascist, is this: An individual is in charge of their own relationships, and their own thoughts, and their own education. I will have words for anyone who says differently. That is not to embrace individualism or to avoid social contracts, but to learn and recognize the ways that a social contract is enforced upon people.
 
Just to clarify, as it's been raised - the reason I used "fascism" as a reference point is because of when I've met people who tell other they are spiritual, and state implicitly that they are above "unspiritual" people.

I'm sorry, but to myself there is a fundamental spiritual truth that we are all equal, merely different.

Therefore is someone, anyone, believes that they are superior and worth more than any other ordinary human being, then they are anything but enlightened. Their ego has transcended its boundaries, rather than the inner self transcended the ego.
 
I said:
Just to clarify, as it's been raised - the reason I used "fascism" as a reference point is because of when I've met people who tell other they are spiritual, and state implicitly that they are above "unspiritual" people.
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I wouldn't call them "spiritual fascists".

I'd just call them "idiots".
 
It seems to me that how we think we should live can be a very dividing force in each of us. This drive often manifests itself in belief systems, of which religion is an example, and once we feel that we have figured it out we often think that others should live the same way, or believe the same thing, or that they are superior for having a greater spiritual knowledge.

Feeling that we have found out the truth behind the mystery is a powerful fuel for the ego. But, in truth I believe that if we truly find some spiritual enlightenment, this should be something that removes barriers and boundaries, not increase them. The better we understand the universe the more a sense of oneness should appear. All qualities like good and evil, or spiritual and not spiritual, are illusions anyway. They are values created by ourselves. So, to believe that you are better than others because you have more spiritual knowledge shows ignorance not enlightenment.

Each of us travels along our own path, we make our own mistakes and our own discoveries. Our opinions and beliefs may differ from others, but that is because they are on their own path, created by them and waiting to be discovered. Yet, we are all the same, in that we all want to be happy and avoid pain. For many of us simply to live is like trying to find our way in the dark. But, if we have others to help us the darkness begins to fade and we are able to see the path ahead of us. This is mankind at its best, when we help each other. To judge others and discriminate against them because of their ideologies or beliefs can lead to mankind at its worst. Belief is personal, empathy and compassion leads to a oneness, and a recognition of a united consciousness.

In the grand fabric of the universe we are simply matter moulded into human forms that will eventually be used to form something else. We are the universe, and viewed from this perspective our actions are mere movements of the universe itself. With this understanding all beings are equal, all motivations are equal and all beliefs are equal. Compassion and empathy can flourish.
 
I see this so much, so many people have a superiorist attitude, that they are somehow better than everyone else. It is such a shame.
 
Manxboz said:
I see this so much, so many people have a superiorist attitude, that they are somehow better than everyone else. It is such a shame.
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I didn't know "superiorist" was an actual word. I was going to suggest "supremacist."
 
I came across yet another example of what I would call increasing fascism, possibly spiritual fascism, in the USA. In the past, a person with a record in one town, state, or country, could potentially travel to another town, state, or country, and start over. In a way, this permits a person to change themselves, and to try again with new relationships in the face of those who lack the ability to love and forgive. In fact the government might even help facilitate that anonymity in terms of a witness protection program. However, due to technology, greed, and government, there are actually rules being put in place that an employer must do a background check, and if an insurance company is involved, then they often must enforce and discriminate based on a government record against the person. When a group demands that individuals discriminate, and either trust or not trust based on some judgment of the group or another individual, then I'm calling it fascism. I submit that every individual must choose their relationships, and has the right to forgive, and to trust, even when it is a known felon. When the group, the government, the insurance companies, the banks, or any company with power dictates otherwise, for greed or for security, then I'm calling it out for what it is: fascism. It is surprising to me, but I am seeing a record exponential growth of fascism in the USA. Perhaps it is just me. People are taking orders from databases, not even knowing who they are taking the orders from. I think we are seeing a negative side to the internet and the communication era: one that is cold hearted. I know of a person who has changed their life around, and while perhaps not perfect, he walks with a government record over his head that does not represent who he is today. Society, obeying the government, obeying the insurance company, obeying the government database, is being cold hearted towards this person.
 
wil said:
Am I hearing you say you think your credit history, insurance history such shouldn't follow you?
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No, I respect the right of individuals and companies to discriminate by whatever gossip, third party judgments, or database they wish. It is when governments, insurance, banks, large or especially franchised companies dictate that you must discriminate by the gossip, third party judgments, or a database, that it becomes fascism.

Imagine the town that dictates you shall only serve a Jew, or the parent company that dictates you shall hire only a Christian, or the parents who dictate you shall only marry a Muslim, or the government that dictates you shall only do business with an individual or company from their select list. These choices should really be each individual's prerogative.

In the case of this kid, he discovered a number of people / companies who interviewed him and wanted to hire him, but couldn't because their parent company or the insurance policy required by the parent company would not permit having anyone with the conviction that someone had against him.
 
luecy7 said:
In the case of this kid, he discovered a number of people / companies who interviewed him and wanted to hire him, but couldn't because their parent company or the insurance policy required by the parent company would not permit having anyone with the conviction that someone had against him.
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Actuaries have data that is indicative of risk in these situations, and they are hired by companies to mitigate risk.

Yes, once you commit a crime, and do the time, you now have to go out and prove yourself. There are penalties for our actions that go well beyond what the criminal court or government induce.

Are you surprised? Did anyone say it was going to be easy? He may have paid the price that was deemed acceptable by society as a whole, but everyone still has their own concerns to look out for.

All that being said, there are numerous wonderful people out there, if he continues to look he will find one that will 'give him a break' even if he isn't asking for a break, but just a fair shake. The key will be for him to not screw that up, and change those actuarial numbers.

I do not see how this relates to fascism. I do see how when you are personally involved in these situations that it is hard to separate and take reality.
 
wil said:
Actuaries have data that is indicative of risk in these situations, and they are hired by companies to mitigate risk.
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Yet the same company requires that others take risk in it. In this way the larger company easily becomes a hypocrite in the pursuit of maximizing a profit to risk ratio. In some important ways it is actually more profitable to maximize the risk to profit ratio.

wil said:
Yes, once you commit a crime, and do the time, you now have to go out and prove yourself. There are penalties for our actions that go well beyond what the criminal court or government induce.

Are you surprised? Did anyone say it was going to be easy? He may have paid the price that was deemed acceptable by society as a whole, but everyone still has their own concerns to look out for.
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No, I am not surprised that people like yourself have troubles fathoming forgiveness.

wil said:
All that being said, there are numerous wonderful people out there, if he continues to look he will find one that will 'give him a break' even if he isn't asking for a break, but just a fair shake. The key will be for him to not screw that up, and change those actuarial numbers.
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Whereas I am telling him the key is in his method of contending with and forgiving others who do wrong.

wil said:
I do not see how this relates to fascism. I do see how when you are personally involved in these situations that it is hard to separate and take reality.
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The reality I have experienced in a couple of situations is where the information in the database is simply false, either a fabrication by someone, poor communication within the organization, or just a nameless person's character for greed or paranoia. I have good credit with no criminal record, but on several occasions I have been falsely accused of some things and forced to contend with some hardship as a result of it. What is interesting is the impossibility of truly proving innocence, especially with a faceless database, and I imagine it even harder for the person who was guilty of something but has since changed their character. It is likewise an akward position for the people using the database because there is very little evidence for them to confirm or deal with someone who refutes the information. It can be a little frustrating when it is impossible to speak with the actual accuser who makes the database entry, either because they are shielded from reproach, long gone, or that the database was not even that detailed. It can actually require a great deal of time to contend with reversing an errant database. Perhaps when someone experiences identity theft then they will begin to recognize what I am calling fascism. On the flip side, for those who seek to exploit a system, the fascism actually presents an opportunity too. Money can be paid to falsify information or influence the data in the database, and the fascism is in place to respect that information.
 
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