Marijuana

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Bandit!

WWJD?

Actually, that is what I am attempting to get at.

It is easy to make the assumption, but would He really object if it were not against the law of the land? Considering the crowd He hung out with, I am inclined to think the simple answer is just a bit, well, too simple.

What medicines did doctors have in the time of Jesus? Surely there was use of substance for recreational purposes, afterall Jesus not only drank wine at a wedding, He made a whole bunch of it too for others to drink.

I realize there is no direct reference (that I recall) to the use of herbal relaxants, but I seem to recall a fight between Rachel and another of Jacob's wives over a mandrake root, which as I recall was supposed to be an aphrodesiac (sp?).

And then considering the Church's absorption of local tradition and custom into the various regional churches, it would not surprise me to learn of places where herbs are either toleranted or folded into the regional practice. Haiti, perhaps?

What about the use of peyote by AmerIndians in the South West, and other similar substances in Central America and Africa in the indigenous religions. I am not speaking of the Western materialist tradition of highjacking something for mass consumption and profit (as was done with tobacco), these things were and are still used in a reverent way in the course of the pursuit of the spiritual traditions of many indigenous cultures.

Which raises another point, is the intent and motivation behind the use a determining factor behind acceptability in God's eyes?

I am actually trying to get at the ethical and moral issues per the Bible with this. I realize it is a difficult subject for many, but since it was raised it is one I have struggled with for a long time. Hence my questions.

 

[lunamoth]

WWJD?

Good way to look at it, Bandit. To me this means He would ask us:

1) does it interfere with your ability to love God?
2) does it interfere with your ability to love your neighbor (family, friends, etc.)

And I keep in mind that love is an action, not just a nice feeling, which includes keeping up on responsibilities and obligations we have to our families, neighbors and society.

The answers to those questions will vary from person to person, but speaking for myself the answers would be yes and yes. As Faithful and others pointed out, there are medicinal uses for marijuana and other drugs that are used for recreational purposes. And for peyote and drugs used in some cultures and religions, I think these are usually strictly controlled by social mores, customs, and rituals surrounding their use.

peace,
lunamoth

 

[InLove]

Hi, Peace to Y'all Here--

Honestly, this is the most thoughtful and sensible conversation I have seen in years regarding this issue. (Thanks for the concern about the kids, Juan and all of you--as you probably know by now, it actually turned out to be a blessing that they could not afford to leave the Houston area--big sigh of relief!!)

The marijuana issue is a catch-22, for now. I have some ideas that could help, but I am not going to be sent into Congress or Parliament or what-have-you in my lifetime. And, to tell you the truth, as strongly as I feel about the issue, there are bigger ones that we all have to deal with on a daily basis. Maybe I should have gone into politics when I was young--LOL--thought music would be more lucrative (who am I kidding? Was I worried about "lucrative"? Nope--just loved music. Still do. )

Anyway, I really do thank you all for an actual intelligent conversation on this subject--it is refreshing, and it really does help me believe that I am not entirely idiotic in my thoughts and beliefs.

InPeace,
InLove

 

[iBrian]

And as we're steering back to the original question - well, I don't see an argument that *any* herb that affects the biochemical pathways of the human pathways therefore means it is Divine - after all, there are plenty that will cause serious illness or death.

 

[Bandit]

Kindest Regards, Bandit!



Which raises another point, is the intent and motivation behind the use a determining factor behind acceptability in God's eyes?

I am actually trying to get at the ethical and moral issues per the Bible with this. I realize it is a difficult subject for many, but since it was raised it is one I have struggled with for a long time. Hence my questions.

i have felt the same way Juan. i even know some who found Christ while doing drugs & reading the bible. i know they did not continue using afterward.
i dont really have an answer but i just cant see Jesus smoking, pill popping or shooting up anything for some reason. (even if he was in the flesh right now with us) i kind of see these things as temptation that we can get caught up in, with the exception of medicine & such.

though like you or someone mentioned before about the abuse of prescriptions. what can i say.

Like Luna said, & i have to agree I think these things will eventually come between us & God & the people we love if we are not careful. I have to admit the drug world is not a pretty picture & not everyone has the ability to get out of it on there own.
OTH, i can't see Jesus stuffing his face full of pork sausage & bacon every day either. LOL
i suppose it could get rather complicated & i should just leave at that.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

The way I see the UK they cannot just go, OK! Thats it! Weed is ok to use go right ahead... Because how would you place a limit on it? Like the drink driving... you then will have too relaxed attitudes... Then I know in my views it is stupid but some fools are bound to say... "Well you legalised Cannabis! Why can't you make LSD, XTC, Coke or whatever legal?" As there is never a dead stop is there? If you give people an inch they will take a dang mile.....

Oh, puh-lease. In the Netherlands you are allowed to have a certain small amount of weed or shroom, and one or two other kinds of "soft" drugs, for your own personal use. The gov't draws a very strict line between soft drugs and hard drugs - absolutely no sign of anyone trying to take a mile here. And if you're caught with more than that small amount you get in big trouble too, the logic being that if you've got more than you can reasonably smoke you're planning to sell it, which is strictly illegal unless you run a shop. And from what I've seen here, and heard from native Dutch, most (not all, but most) people who use pot here are tourists, hippies, and students...hmmm...pretty much the same people whom I saw using it back in the good ole U.S. of A.

And yes, I know you said that you personally have no problem with it, you were just saying why you think the gov't doesn't change things, but the Dutch gov't doesn't seem to have any problems with placing limits on it.

As for me, I agree with bananabrain's take on it in general and lunamoth's take in my own personal case.

By the way, InLove, I'm very thankful that your children are okay.

 

[17th Angel]

Oh, puh-lease. In the Netherlands you are allowed to have a certain small amount of weed or shroom, and one or two other kinds of "soft" drugs, for your own personal use. The gov't draws a very strict line between soft drugs and hard drugs - absolutely no sign of anyone trying to take a mile here. And if you're caught with more than that small amount you get in big trouble too, the logic being that if you've got more than you can reasonably smoke you're planning to sell it, which is strictly illegal unless you run a shop. And from what I've seen here, and heard from native Dutch, most (not all, but most) people who use pot here are tourists, hippies, and students...hmmm...pretty much the same people whom I saw using it back in the good ole U.S. of A.

I am not against it, read my other posts, I grow and smoke cannabis, I was giving the excuses that the gov would stand by I have more than i can smoke... No intention of selling though.. That I find aload of crap, I have currently around 25 - 30kg's I am sure that would be seen a dealer... It isn't though, just stocking it up.... thats all... :\

 

[17th Angel]

And as we're steering back to the original question - well, I don't see an argument that *any* herb that affects the biochemical pathways of the human pathways therefore means it is Divine - after all, there are plenty that will cause serious illness or death.

Is life divine? ;/ that causes death....

 

[Awaiting_the_fifth]

Bottom line is, who has the right to tell me what I can do as long as Im not harming anyone else.

It isnt addictive, it isnt particularly unhealthy,(compared to alcohol or nicotine) and as long as it is illegal it WILL lead to harder drugs for two reasons,

1) You have to go to a drug dealer to get it.
2) It is grouped into a set of substances called 'drugs' along with crack
and heroin, if I discover that Cannabis is not as bad as people say, what
is to stop me trying these other 'drugs' as well.

I used it medicinally when I had cancer, it was the only thing that stopped the nausia of the chemotherapy and I would openly recommend it to anyone who finds themselves in that situation. Now I use it recreationally (very occationally as it is not addictive) and have a good time with my friends with no side affects whatsoever.

 

[Pico]

P.S. BTW, Pico, welcome to CR! By any chance is your "name" anything to do with Pio Pico? Are you from Whittier?

No, sorry. lol I don't even know what Whittier is Pico is just a nick name I've been uisng since like the 6th grade.

 

[sparrow]

Greetings from the heartland of the U$.

I started a thread on the same topic yesterday. However, it was closed and I was referred to this thread. I'm a bit surprised at the direction its taken to be honest.

Marijuana is a sacred gift from God, imo. A powerful sacrament that can assist in personal development including one's spirituality.

As far as man's laws are concerned, the use of marijuana as a sacrament transcends any edict laid out by our society, imo. And I've learned this from a personal relationship with my savior, Jesus Christ.

lw

 

[Spazola]

& so Go made heroin, hash, wild shrooms, cocaine, tobacco & the fermentation process of fruits & veggies.

Actually, humans made heroin and cocain.

Weed is nothing more than a plant. From what I have observed, its affects are similar to those of the lavender plant, pushed to the maximim. It has a relaxing, calming affect, unlike that of shrooms, cocaine, and tobacco. Shroons cause your mind and body to panic, and thats what makes you trip. Cocaine is a human made drug, and if I'm correct, rat poison is often a main ingredient. Tobacco is nothing more than a plant...eating it would do nothing to you (I could be wrong on this, please correct me if I am), but breathing in the smoke it creates is like smothering your lungs.

The God/ess created many things on this earth. Almost all are perfectly harmless, unless humans use them in a manner that they are not ment for.

 

[sparrow]

Eating tobacco can kill you dead.

Rat poison as a common ingredient in cocaine? Naw. You have a bad source of info, there, spaz. Not that I use coke myself. But I do know a few things....

lw

 

[Quahom1]

Actually, humans made heroin and cocain.

Weed is nothing more than a plant. From what I have observed, its affects are similar to those of the lavender plant, pushed to the maximim. It has a relaxing, calming affect, unlike that of shrooms, cocaine, and tobacco. Shroons cause your mind and body to panic, and thats what makes you trip. Cocaine is a human made drug, and if I'm correct, rat poison is often a main ingredient. Tobacco is nothing more than a plant...eating it would do nothing to you (I could be wrong on this, please correct me if I am), but breathing in the smoke it creates is like smothering your lungs.

The God/ess created many things on this earth. Almost all are perfectly harmless, unless humans use them in a manner that they are not ment for.

Heroin is made from opium which is an extract from Poppies. Cocaine is made from the Coca plant. Theses "Gifts" from God, are in their proper usage, designed to ease the physical pain of someone and induce sleep (moriphine), or cauterize blood vessels and act as a topical anesthetic (cocaine). Marijuana can be used to ease pressure in glaucoma sufferes, or increase the appetite of cancer patients. The "hemp" rope that is made from the plant is a very strong natural fiber rope.

Street Cocaine is cut with milk sugar (decon would cause a person's blood vessels to rupture, and they would hemorage to death internally). Pure cocaine can kill a man just by skin contact (absorbed into the skin, pure cocaine can cause a man's heart to race beyond 250 BPM, in which the heart literally explodes. Street Cocaine is also processed with diesel fuel or kerosene. It is often smuggled in fuel tanks (disolved in the fuel), which means the Cocaine user is also ingesting petro chemicals like Benzene and Toulene...known carcinogens. Three percent of the human population lack the enzyme to metabolize Cocaine, resulting in a heart attack on the first time trying it. The only way to know if one is "allergic" to Cocaine is when they drop dead. Cocaine's long term side effects :

heart disease, heart attacks, respiratory failure, strokes, seizures, and gastrointestinal problems. Other physical symptoms include convulsions, nausea, blurred vision, chest pain, fever, muscle spasms, and coma.
As the habit of using cocaine becomes increasingly important, behavior such as lying, heating, stealing, absenteeism at work and denying the use of cocaine, is an evident side effect. While these behaviors are not directly related to the use of cocaine, these cocaine effects are often present due to the lifestyle of the addict.

Other long-term cocaine effects include:

Addiction
Paranoia
Irritability
Restlessness
Auditory hallucinations
Mood disturbances
deviated septum (the cartillage in the nose disintegrates).

Heroin has the following side effects:

Rush
Depressed respiration
Clouded mental functioning
Nausea and vomiting
Suppression of pain
Spontaneous abortion (miscarriage)
Addiction
Abscesses
Collapsed veins
Bacterial infections
Infections of the heart lining an valves
Arthritis and other rheumatologic problems
Infectious diseases, for example HIV/AIDS and Hepatitis B and C

Marijuana's effects:

Enhanced cancer risk
Decrease in testosterone levels and lower sperm counts for men
Increase in testosterone levels for women and increased risk of infertility Diminished or extinguished sexual pleasure
Psychological dependence requiring more of the drug to get the same effect Sleepiness
Difficulty keeping track of time, impaired or reduced short-term memory Reduced ability to perform tasks requiring concentration and coordination,
such as driving a car
Increased heart rate
Potential cardiac dangers for those with preexisting heart disease
Bloodshot eyes
Dry mouth and throat
Decreased social inhibitions
Paranoia, hallucinations
Impaired or reduced short-term memory
Impaired or reduced comprehension
Altered motivation and cognition, making the acquisition of new information difficult
Paranoia
Psychological dependence
Impairments in learning and memory, perception, and judgment - difficulty
speaking, listening effectively, thinking, retaining knowledge, problem solving,
and forming concepts
Intense anxiety or panic attacks

If one wants to artifically relax and do so in relative safety...I recommend Beetle Nut from the South Pacific Islands, to chew on. It is a mild narcotic, with relatively low side effects (except it turns one's teeth bright red - permanently).

my thoughts.

v/r

Q

 

[Bandit]

Actually, humans made heroin and cocain.

Weed is nothing more than a plant.

God made everything. Humans manipulate it to fit there own agendas.

 

[InLove]

Hi, Awaiting_the_fifth--

Haven't had the pleasure in a while (of speaking with you, that is )

First of all, if one did not have to go to a drug dealer, then one would not have to deal with those who deal the nasty drugs. But for some reason, many governments are not willing to acknowledge that, as you pointed out, marijuana should not be lumped into categories with crack and heroin. Hmmm...why, then, don't these governments go ahead and give?

I believe that these governments make more money by keeping marijuana illegal that they would by convincing the public to vote it into legality. Illegal drugs create way more revenue than taxes????

That is what I see in the U.S.--is it similar in the U.K?

LOL--I hear Canada has a solution--just wish it would work here....

(In the meantime, I am clean, even though I never understood why the whole thing was dirty...)

InPeace,
InLove.

 

[Awaiting_the_fifth]

Peace to all.

InLove,

It has been a while, Ive been missing you. I hope your family are all OK after the storms, I have been dedicating my meditations to them and you.

I dont see that the UK government making any money at all from Cannabis being illegal, how does the US government make money this way?


Quahom,

Interesting that you list marijuana's effects along side the negative effects of Heroin and Cocaine,

Sleepiness
Difficulty keeping track of time, impaired or reduced short-term memory Impaired or reduced short-term memory

These are not side effects at all, but rather are a part of the high and part of the reason to smoke it in the first place.

Diminished or extinguished sexual pleasure
Psychological dependence requiring more of the drug to get the same effect

I have found the opposite to be true in these two cases.

Psychological dependence

Anything you enjoy can be psychologically addictive, like chocolate for example.

Bloodshot eyes
Dry mouth and throat

These are hardly significant effects, the dryness can be cured with a glass of water and the eyes are normal again by morning.

Reduced ability to perform tasks requiring concentration and coordination,
such as driving a car
Decreased social inhibitions
Impaired or reduced comprehension
Altered motivation and cognition, making the acquisition of new information difficult
Impairments in learning and memory, perception, and judgment - difficulty
speaking, listening effectively, thinking, retaining knowledge, problem solving,
and forming concepts

These effects are all similar to being drunk on alcohol, and like alcohol they simply require sensible use of marijuana.

So that leaves us with

Decrease in testosterone levels and lower sperm counts for men
Increase in testosterone levels for women and increased risk of infertility
Increased heart rate
Enhanced cancer risk
Potential cardiac dangers for those with preexisting heart disease
Paranoia, hallucinations
Paranoia
Intense anxiety or panic attacks

The testosterone thing and the cancer risk, I do not see how any real studies can be carried out into these things while the drug is illegal. I have heard evidence that suggests that marijuana actually prevents cancer, but this also is inconclusive until serious studies are allowed.

You have seperately lised Paranoia, Paranoia and hallucinations, and anxiety and panic attacks, which I would say are all the same thing. Marijuana is not hallucinagenic at all and if it were, hallucinations would not necessarily be a bad thing.

Paranoia I accept, that is a side effect that can be very bad. My flat mate at uni once thought that I wanted to kill him and eat his soul. Freaky.

I also Accept the increased heart rate, but I do not think it is fair to list "cardiac dangers for those with preexisting heart disease" as a side effect, as I said before, consumption of marijuana must be sensible, a man with a heart disease should obviously steer clear.


Apologies for the long post, but there is one other thing I would like to say.

While cannabis is illegal, there is no quality control. Cannabis resin which can be bought easily on the street tends to be composed mostly from boot polish, bleach, dung, rat poison and any number of other unpleasant things which can be added to it to increase its bulk and hence, its value. If it were legal, it would have to be purer and therefore much healthier.

But even if it is fatal, I still say I should have the right to use it if I choose to.

 

[sparrow]

From a paper written by Sol Lightman....

Not one case of lung cancer has ever been successfully
linked to marijuana use.

Cannabis, unlike tobacco, does not cause any narrowing of
the small air passageways in the lungs. In fact, marijuana has been shown to be an expectorant and actually dilates the air channels it comes in contact with. This is why many asthma sufferers look to marijuana to provide relief. Doctors have postulated that marijuana may, in this respect, be more effective than all of the prescription drugs on the market.

Studies even show that due to marijuana's ability to clear
the lungs of smog, pollutants, and cigarette smoke, it may
actually reduce your risk of emphysema, bronchitis, and lung
cancer. Smokers of cannabis have been shown to outlive non-
smokers in some areas by up to two years. Medium to heavy
tobacco smokers will live seven to ten years longer if they also
smoke marijuana.

Cannabis is also radically different from tobacco in that it
does not contain nicotine and is not addictive. The psychoactive
ingredient in marijuana, THC, has been accused of causing brain
and genetic damage, but these studies have all been disproven.
In fact, the DEA's own Administrative Law Judge Francis Young has
declared that "marijuana in its natural form is far safer than
many foods we commonly consume."

 

[sparrow]

Btw....... Those with the most to lose by the legalization of cannabis here in the U$ would be textile, paper producers and LAW ENFORCEMENT, imo. The gvt here in the U$ throws a ton of money at the war on drugs. Forfeiture laws are severe as well concerning those convicted of drug related offenses. And its a lot easier to go out and bust a passive pot smoker than it is to deal with those violent folks committing crimes against others.

Just think of the tax base that could be created by legalizing this most precious gift from God. It could potentially signify the first steps toward healing of a nation, imo.

lw

 

[Spazola]

Marijuana's effects:
Enhanced cancer risk
Decrease in testosterone levels and lower sperm counts for men
Increase in testosterone levels for women and increased risk of infertility Diminished or extinguished sexual pleasure
Psychological dependence requiring more of the drug to get the same effect Sleepiness
Difficulty keeping track of time, impaired or reduced short-term memory Reduced ability to perform tasks requiring concentration and coordination,
such as driving a car
Increased heart rate
Potential cardiac dangers for those with preexisting heart disease
Bloodshot eyes
Dry mouth and throat
Decreased social inhibitions
Paranoia, hallucinations
Impaired or reduced short-term memory
Impaired or reduced comprehension
Altered motivation and cognition, making the acquisition of new information difficult
Paranoia
Psychological dependence
Impairments in learning and memory, perception, and judgment - difficulty
speaking, listening effectively, thinking, retaining knowledge, problem solving,
and forming concepts
Intense anxiety or panic attacks

I know for a fact that Marijuana smoking does not cause hallcinations,anxiety,panic attacks, or short term memory imparment. I have never smoked the stuff myself, but I know many people that have. I have been around when they smoked (not close enough to breath in smoke, of course), and when they were high. It does, in a way, make you slightly temporarily stupid, but it dosen't affect you long-term. I know one woman who smokes, and she's a TEACHER.
Marijuana is ONLY addictive Psychologicaly, unlike cocaine and heroine, which is physically (sp?) addictive.

My thoughts.