Marijuana

[Spazola]

Nope - merely referring my earlier statement:

I disagree with your former statement. While it is always possible that thugs use Marajiuana, is rarely the case. The people I have met who are moderate weed smokers are very mellow, down to earth people. Two of them are a married couple, parents to three children. They are productive humans of society, and the father has a job that is very important to him. Their children have never been exposed to Marajiuana, but they have no plans to lie to them, either.

 

[iBrian]

I disagree with your former statement. While it is always possible that thugs use Marajiuana, is rarely the case. The people I have met who are moderate weed smokers are very mellow, down to earth people. Two of them are a married couple, parents to three children. They are productive humans of society, and the father has a job that is very important to him. Their children have never been exposed to Marajiuana, but they have no plans to lie to them, either.

My point was specifically at suppliers.

 

[Awaiting_the_fifth]

Brian, is this the earlier statement you refer to?

Also, Quahom raises a very good point is that is often overlooked, and that is that even if cannabis itself is seen as relatively less harmful compared to other drugs (ie, nicotine and alcohol), it still remains an important commodity for very violent criminal gangs.

If it is true that violent criminal gangs are making money from dealing in Marijuana, then surely this is a very strong argument for legalisation. This would remove the trade from the violent gangs and effectively place it in the hands of the supermarkets.

 

[iBrian]

Indeed, it can certainly be an argument for legalising supply - but I believe my earlier comment was more directed at the claim that cannabis use is inherently harmless to society and the individual.

We live in a consumer society that is focused on the benefits to the consumer, not the cost - cannabis use has a cost in the supply to the consumer, and I would also argue that cannabis use can also have a cost in terms of personal health (I'm thinking more of mental health than physical issues based on tobacco use).

I wouldn't consider myself against cannabis - but when I used to be a complete pothead, I used to hear a lot of bullsh!t about how great cannabis is. I think that's going to be a situation that arises from any social group that uses any specific drug socially.

The whole cannabis issue really needs more balance, in my opinion, and that's what I've tried to contribute in this thread. Cannabis use is great for some people. That's great. But that can't be the end point of the argument, IMO.

 

[Quahom1]

Brian, is this the earlier statement you refer to?



If it is true that violent criminal gangs are making money from dealing in Marijuana, then surely this is a very strong argument for legalisation. This would remove the trade from the violent gangs and effectively place it in the hands of the supermarkets.

Up until 1935, it was legal in the US. They made it illegal for a reason. It slows down reaction time, causes the individual to not want to work, in short it screwed with production, and influenced bad accidents, which cost companies and families big losses.

Why not alcohol, you might ask. Well, alcohol is being frowned on more and more. Liquid lunches are no longer tolerated, companies offer medical help to rid employees of the habit, the military no longer tolerates the drunk soldier/sailor. And cops no longer give one a ride home...instead one gets a "ride" to jail.

I suppose if people could (at large) do imbibing in such things in moderation, and responsibly, this would not be an issue. But a significant minority can't. And as a result, people get hurt, or worse.

my thoughts.

v/r

Q

 

[wil]

Up until 1935, it was legal in the US. They made it illegal for a reason. It slows down reaction time, causes the individual to not want to work, in short it screwed with production, and influenced bad accidents, which cost companies and families big losses.

Funny, remember the US slalom skier that had his Gold Medal taken away due to marijuana in his system...in a sport where you win/lose by hundredths of a second and the only way to develop the skill is with intense passion and dedication to vigorous training schedule and work ethic...the winner was a hophead with slow reflexes through the gates a 60 mph and he musta lacked drive....

Of course this is the exception that proves the rule....whatever that means..

My understanding is marijuana was not a problem until it was made illegal, funny thing about prohibition... Hemp was an up and coming commercial procuct, hemp clothes, hemp rope, hemp paper, hemp books were all of high quality and quickly becoming popular alternatives...but a major player in the paper industry had just negotiated 99 year leases on US BLM land and had ready access to a free supply of pulp which since he wanted to control not only the newspaper market but as much of newsprint as well Mr. Hearst convinced congress to make hemp illegal by exploiting the dangers of the weed.

Congress often passes laws at the behest of business, most laws are currently written by business..one of my favorites is the Amercian Pork Council lobbying congress to create a law that one cent of every dollar at the pork co-ops (hog markets) had to go to the council for advertising...true, congress requiring pork farmers to pay for advertising by law....how do you think they got the money for the 'Pork, America's Other White Meat' national ad campaign?

 

[Awaiting_the_fifth]

Up until 1935, it was legal in the US. They made it illegal for a reason. It slows down reaction time, causes the individual to not want to work, in short it screwed with production, and influenced bad accidents, which cost companies and families big losses.

Why not alcohol, you might ask. Well, alcohol is being frowned on more and more. Liquid lunches are no longer tolerated, companies offer medical help to rid employees of the habit, the military no longer tolerates the drunk soldier/sailor. And cops no longer give one a ride home...instead one gets a "ride" to jail.

I suppose if people could (at large) do imbibing in such things in moderation, and responsibly, this would not be an issue. But a significant minority can't. And as a result, people get hurt, or worse.

Of course, moderation is the key. As you say, liquid lunches are no longer acceptable, and if cannabis were legalised then employers would have to make it known that coming to work high is no different to coming to work drunk (an offence I am sure would get me fired).

There could be no driving while high, no operating of machinery while high, strict rules to cover all eventualities. The penalties for breaking such rules should be harsh (I personally think that the penalties for drink driving should be much harsher), heavy fines and an option of prison time.

Maybe keep it illegal to smoke it in public, keep it in the privacy of your own home where no one else can even be inconvenienced.

As for why it became illegal to start with, I understand it was all down to a complete nutbar called Harry Anslinger who had more power than sense. He actually said, on record, that he considered cannabis to be more dangerous than heroin, and then made it his personal mission to rid the world of it. His position in the US treasury was used to control cannabis in the US, and then when African and South American countries wanted help with their Cocaine problem, the US government made them all sign international treaties banning Cannabis worldwide.

Western governments have been changing their line on cannabis for decades, from "You will go insane" to "You will be a drop out loser" to "It leads to harder drugs"

Recently, the UK Secretary of State's office replied to a letter from the Leagalise Cannabis Alliance (of which I am a member) and gave the reason for the drug being illegal as its addictive properties, (or some words to that effect, I'll see if I can find it and post it if anyone's interested). They did not give any proof to that effect.

 

[wil]

The real problem here in the states is that at 16 years old you learn to drive, have sex, smoke dope and drink all at the same time, they need to figure out a way to separate them by a few years as they are not conducive done simultaneously...

Western governments have been changing their line on cannabis for decades, from "You will go insane" to "You will be a drop out loser" to "It leads to harder drugs"

Yeah the go insane stuff from 'reefer madness' doesn't really apply. Dropping out a loser stems from not having information and people abusing, staying stoned all the time. Leading to harder drugs? Well that is true, but I would say 95% of that is gov't caused. If marijuana is illegal, then you are hanging out with people who do other illegal things, and harder drugs are involved. So guilt by association occurs. One day you wanta get high and you are outta pot and someone says...I've got these...

Of course similar things happen on college campusses where speed becomes the study drug and eventually you try other things....association. Where as if some of this were legal...you would not be buying from dealers but pharmacies.

Unfortuneately no one can deny the lack of motivation that marijuana creates for some people...I was a member of NORMAL national organization for the reformation of marijuana laws in the 70's. Was in DC for smoke outs, circulated petitions... never thought I would...but I grew up.

 

[iBrian]

There could be no driving while high, no operating of machinery while high, strict rules to cover all eventualities. The penalties for breaking such rules should be harsh

That's possibly going to be a problem, though - the goalposts as moving from one type of enforcement to another. I knew plenty of stoners who thought nothing of driving while stoned, and even a few who drove on LSD.

Once I took a friend to task for giving my girlfriend a lift on his motorbike while he was stoned - he refused to be convinced riding while high was dangerous, and even claimed it helped him ride more safely. Bill Hicks gags aside, two accidents with his own girlfriend never convinced him otherwise.

I really think any legalisation campaign needs to look at how to address such issues to make a stronger case for legalisation - propose possible problems, and how to properly tackle them. Simply stating that acts while stoned should be illegal is in danger of being another form of restriction against the very people least likely to observe them.

2c.

 

[Quahom1]

That's possibly going to be a problem, though - the goalposts as moving from one type of enforcement to another. I knew plenty of stoners who thought nothing of driving while stoned, and even a few who drove on LSD.

Once I took a friend to task for giving my girlfriend a lift on his motorbike while he was stoned - he refused to be convinced riding while high was dangerous, and even claimed it helped him ride more safely. Bill Hicks gags aside, two accidents with his own girlfriend never convinced him otherwise.

I really think any legalisation campaign needs to look at how to address such issues to make a stronger case for legalisation - propose possible problems, and how to properly tackle them. Simply stating that acts while stoned should be illegal is in danger of being another form of restriction against the very people least likely to observe them.

2c.

Interesting point. A man stoned, stole a truck from a dealer, lead the cops on a high speed chase through our one lane town, struck and killed one of our biking buddies, lost a wheel and continued for another mile down our two lane country road, before putting the truck into a fence. Then the cops had to bust the windows to get the bastard out of the truck. Ang and I were a mile behind when all this happened. We'd just said "Hey" to the kid on the blue ninja. He was 28.

Others called and thought it might be one of us. We'd all left the Buckeystown shop and gas station, maybe 15 minutes before.

Kid tried to jump the curb...he knew it was over. Hit so hard his bike exploded on impact. Stoned driver never slowed down, despite losing a wheel. Then fought the cops to keep from being taken out of his truck.

My wife got off her bike and suggested never getting on it again

John Atkinson aka (Wayne), was the young ninja rider's name.

As I said, for those capable of imbibing moderately, no problem. But there will always be a minority that can not be moderate, and they cause the majority of the damage in life, especially when they get in a vehicle. Then it is too late.

v/r

Q

 

[wil]

the crime here is that drivers who kill while impaired get off with manslaughter. Should be premeditated murder. You know what drugs and alchohol do, you should not get behind the wheel impaired period.

Eventurally like seat belts all vehicles will require the driver to blow in a tube...of course I've heard their are those that already have them installed and have someone else be tested so they can drive home...talk about enablers.

We are all part an parcel of this problem, we collectively turn our heads regularly.

Time to speak up....especially this season.

namaste,

 

[Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine]

the crime here is that drivers who kill while impaired get off with manslaughter. Should be premeditated murder. You know what drugs and alchohol do, you should not get behind the wheel impaired period.

namaste,

The problem with this is that many (if not most) of the people who are the type who get behind the wheel while impaired are not the type to admit, even to themselves, that they are impaired. And it doesn't even have to be impairment from drugs or alcohol. *remembering the people run over by an elderly man while they were shopping at a farmers' market*

Heck, there was a report done on one of my local tv news programs about impaired elderly drivers and, during one of the reporter's stops, he interviewed an elderly man who claimed he never was in an accident and that he was the safest driver out there. Right after they finished the interview, the elderly man went out to his car, turned it on, and backed right into the news van (which was not blocking the man's car or driveway!)

Sorry for going off-topic.

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

 

[Bandit]

the crime here is that drivers who kill while impaired get off with manslaughter. Should be premeditated murder. You know what drugs and alchohol do, you should not get behind the wheel impaired period.

Eventurally like seat belts all vehicles will require the driver to blow in a tube...of course I've heard their are those that already have them installed and have someone else be tested so they can drive home...talk about enablers.

We are all part an parcel of this problem, we collectively turn our heads regularly.

Time to speak up....especially this season.

namaste,

i know about this device & it works. a man came plowing through my yard two years ago wasted from drinking. it was raining & he got stuck & ripped the hell out of about 75 feet of gardens, shrubs & the mailbox. i hauled him out of the truck & took his keys away while waiting for the police.
i had to blow into the straw to get his truck started again & i finally got him out of the stuck. he did not know what he was doing at all.
he was trying to blow into the straw, falling down on the ground & his truck had to be towed & he was ticketed.
oh was he mad at me! but not half as mad as i was from the damages .
i would hate to see that device in my car, but i know insurance companies are requiring it now for high risk drivers with DUI & such.

 

[Samuel Linton Boot]

I used to smoke the 'erb and plenty of it now , praise Jah!, I'm free of this habit.

Ganja is powerful medicine but like any medicine if you over use it or use it when you don't need it then it will probaly make you sick. Especially as its usually smoked with tobacco.


Remember Robert Nesta Marley O.M. the great ambassodor for 'erb, Rastafari and reggae music,



'Excuse me while I light my spliff

Oh God i've got to take a lift

From reality I just can't drift

Thats why I'm staying with the spliff



Take it easy skanking

Taking it slow'



Note he asks God to excuse him for lighting his spliff so even he didn't really advocate its habitual use.



As someone once told me its better to smoke with God than without him.



'If you partake of smoking you must be prepared to partake of smoking related diseases'. So Jah say.

I'm inclined to believe the prohibition of drugs of any sort is a bad idea. It encorages organised crime and a lack of education as to how different drugs can be used sensibly and safely.

Using drugs can tend to make one anxious or paranoid as illegal drugs are illegal using them can tend to make one even more anxious or paranoid. I've used some serious hallucinogens and had some enormous realisations whilst doing so but I never remember them afterwards.

I wouldn't advise using drugs to anyone yet on the other hand the shamanic use of drugs seems to be intertwined with the origins of religion. As the bible says 'The stone that the builder refuse will always be the headcorner stone' Obviously this quote refers to Jesus, yet I think it also refers to stone idols but maybe it also refers to drugs and also women and also the feminine concept of God.

Morality is relative its wrong for me to take drugs but it might right for someone else but I would'nt advise it because then I would have to accept some responcibility if it was wrong, which it probaly would be.

Ganja was extremely hard to give up I was trying to give it up for years and years, God saved me just like She saved me on numerous 'bad' mushroom trips. Whatever you do you must seek protection from the Great Spirit then as long as you have faith you'll be alright.

'Drugs restrict you physically mentally and spiritually so don't use them' - So Jah say.

Nothing is inherently bad everything seves a purpose in the right place at the right time but the time for toking has passed, for me anyway. Jah Rastafari Everliving All-loving Most High Unterrible God. Boom Shivaji Jai! Om

 

[Pico]

After studying the Bible, It says "Everything God created is good." If you deny this it is blasphemy (right?). God created all the plants in the world, including the cannabis plant, tobacco plant, and opium plant. I do not think it is wrong to use God's good creations, for they are good. But other drugs: cocaine, heroine, crack etc. Are created by man, some created from God's good plants, i.e. Heroine from the opium plant. These drugs are bad because they cause addiction and addiction makes you put drugs before God, but you should put God before everything.

Marijuana has no addiction at all. Although there is some minor mental addiction (wanting to smoke), but absolutely no physical addiction (feeling cravings). Of course, all of God's creations must be used responsibily, and not over-used. Even water, the life-giving fluid God created, is bad for you if you abuse it--if you drink too much water, or eat too much food you will die.

 

[Quahom1]

After studying the Bible, It says "Everything God created is good." If you deny this it is blasphemy (right?). God created all the plants in the world, including the cannabis plant, tobacco plant, and opium plant. I do not think it is wrong to use God's good creations, for they are good. But other drugs: cocaine, heroine, crack etc. Are created by man, some created from God's good plants, i.e. Heroine from the opium plant. These drugs are bad because they cause addiction and addiction makes you put drugs before God, but you should put God before everything.

Marijuana has no addiction at all. Although there is some minor mental addiction (wanting to smoke), but absolutely no physical addiction (feeling cravings). Of course, all of God's creations must be used responsibily, and not over-used. Even water, the life-giving fluid God created, is bad for you if you abuse it--if you drink too much water, or eat too much food you will die.

Didn't God say something about being a drunkard...?

 

[wil]

God created all for a purpose....laying around and saying 'wow' may not have been the purpose.

Eating the leaves in which 'man' creates cocaine is a widely used in the area in which it grows, both to enslave the labor and reduce hunger pains...

The poppy and opium also created by God...

So are many deadly herbs and things like uranium and radon...part of lifes mysteries...just because it is on the surface of the planet doesn't mean we should play with it...

Just a warning...while you are in the middle of a problem it is hard to see the problem....

 

[Pico]

Didn't God say something about being a drunkard...?

Yes, God hates drunkenness because when you are drunk, you are more likely to sin, and ignore God.

But the Bible also says "Do not drink just water." Even Jesus turned water into wine, which is what many people got drunk off of in those days. No where in the Bible does it say it is a sin to drink; it is a sin to be drunk. Like I said ealrier: in moderation.

God created all for a purpose....laying around and saying 'wow' may not have been the purpose.

I can't say I agree with you that weed's purpose is to simply lay around and say "wow." For the ungodly people (read: lazy), this may be one of the only effect it has on them. Last week I decided to take a few months off from smoking, and also in that time I have become closer to God. I am interested in what it will be like to smoke again after comming close to God.

Some people who posted in this thread said they belive weed makes them feel more connected to God.

So are many deadly herbs and things like uranium and radon...part of lifes mysteries...just because it is on the surface of the planet doesn't mean we should play with it...

Just a warning...while you are in the middle of a problem it is hard to see the problem....

Yes, I agree that there are deadly herbs and the like that God made (such as poison ivy and many types of deadly mushrooms), but these creaton's negative affects are verry apparent--scratching/itchiness; stomach pains and death. Weed does not have such obvoius nagativities to it, but does have posative effects i.e. anti-depressant. I know God is a spiritual anti-depressant (last sunday my friend was feeling very depressed as a result of his sins. I told him to pray to God to help him, and he instantly felt much better after doing so).

One negativity weed has is that it messes with my memory (although that may be a result of thousands of years' worth of genetic mutation to the plant's DNA-- genetic mutation being the cause of many diseases and illnesses in human beings today).
SECOND THOUGHT: The memory imparment maybe have been a result of my abuse of the plant. Many people do abuse weed.

 

[Quahom1]

God created all for a purpose....laying around and saying 'wow' may not have been the purpose.

Eating the leaves in which 'man' creates cocaine is a widely used in the area in which it grows, both to enslave the labor and reduce hunger pains...

The poppy and opium also created by God...

So are many deadly herbs and things like uranium and radon...part of lifes mysteries...just because it is on the surface of the planet doesn't mean we should play with it...

Just a warning...while you are in the middle of a problem it is hard to see the problem....

God also created common sense...

 

[bruceg]

God also created common sense...

Yea, but why did s/he make it so darned UNcommon?

... Bruce