the Bible from a Jehovah's Witness perspective

[RubySera_Martin]

This is where I get confused on Christianity and forgiveness, love and compassion.

There are two sides to every story and while I don't understand the JW perspective, this is thread discussing that, if one doesn't have a beneficial remark, is any remark required?

Good point. I wondered the same thing.

On the other side, since the 1914 is touted so much there has to be a chart/graph/spreadsheet someplace that allows clearly one to say ok we are starting here...and then due to this we add, and due to this scripture we add...

I'm really finding in life if you want someone to understand something, or do something, or give something....make it easy for them...lay the cards on the table...

From what I've seen of Ruby's posts I'd assume her interest in expanding her knowledge and exploring concepts/ideas foriegn to her is sincere.

Yes, my curiosity is sincere.

And from what I've seen of mee's posts they are nothing but sincere, you gotta admire faith...

I try to admire faith but that is a failing I live with. I can better understand and accept a person's faith if the data is on the table so I know why they believe as they do. So you're right on, Wil, in your suggestion. I would be interested in seeing the actual biblical data or argument that fixes 1914 as a special date.

Mee, I understand you are excited to be living in these "last times" as you understand it. I was taught that there is more to life than exitement and thrills. Is this not part of JW teachings? I ask because it seems you end every post with your feelings of being thrilled, as though that were a solid foundation for faith. And I find this somewhat puzzling.

 

[inhumility]

I would be interested in seeing the actual biblical data or argument that fixes 1914 as a special date.
Mee, I understand you are excited to be living in these "last times" as you understand it.

If one could not truly understand the very first prophecy of Jesus being fullfulled after the incident of Cross,I doubt if one can understand the prophecy of last times.
Failed prophecies:

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]About 30 CE : The Christian Scriptures (New Testament), when interpreted literally, appear to record many predictions by Jeshua of Nazareth (Jesus Christ) that God's Kingdom would arrive within a very short period, or was actually in the process of arriving. For example, Jesus is recorded as saying in Matthew 16:28: "...there shall be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." In Matthew 24:34, Yeshua is recorded as saying: "...This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." Since the life expectancy in those days was little over 30 years, Jesus appears to have predicted his second coming sometime during the 1st century CE. It didn't happen. [/FONT]


Thanks

 

[RubySera_Martin]

If one could not truly understand the very first prophecy of Jesus being fullfulled after the incident of Cross,I doubt if one can understand the prophecy of last times.

Sometimes one can understand if it is explained. If you cannot explain, I would hope you were kind enough to be honest about it rather than speaking so condescendingly. The fact of the matter is that I can normally understand things if they are clearly explained. If you choose not to explain and then look down your nose at me for not knowing that which you refuse to explain--well, then I think you are demonstrating an uncharitable attitude.

 

[Quahom1]

Sometimes one can understand if it is explained. If you cannot explain, I would hope you were kind enough to be honest about it rather than speaking so condescendingly. The fact of the matter is that I can normally understand things if they are clearly explained. If you choose not to explain and then look down your nose at me for not knowing that which you refuse to explain--well, then I think you are demonstrating an uncharitable attitude.

Ruby, Inhumility's perspective is one of many. Others interpret the passages differently (as you pointed out earlier that we are want to do).

v/r

Q

 

[mee]

you have no scripture to support your 1914, because its not there. same old preaching of the watchtower rather than the gospel.

understanding of bible prophecy reveals many things in this time of the end .thrilling times indeed.

1914—A​

Significant Year in Bible Prophecy​

DECADES in advance, Bible students proclaimed that there would be significant developments in 1914. What were these, and what evidence points to 1914 as such an important year?​

As recorded at Luke 21:24, Jesus said: "Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations ["the times of the Gentiles," King James Version] are fulfilled." Jerusalem had been the capital city of the Jewish nation—the seat of rulership of the line of kings from the house of King David. (Psalm 48:1, 2) However, these kings were unique among national leaders. They sat on "Jehovah’s throne" as representatives of God himself. (1 Chronicles 29:23) Jerusalem was thus a symbol of Jehovah’s rulership.
How and when, though, did God’s rulership begin to be "trampled on by the nations"? This happened in 607 B.C.E. when Jerusalem was conquered by the Babylonians. "Jehovah’s throne" became vacant, and the line of kings who descended from David was interrupted. (2 Kings 25:1-26) Would this ‘trampling’ go on forever? No, for the prophecy of Ezekiel said regarding Jerusalem’s last king, Zedekiah: "Remove the turban, and lift off the crown. . . . It will certainly become no one’s until he comes who has the legal right, and I must give it to him." (Ezekiel 21:26, 27) The one who has "the legal right" to the Davidic crown is Christ Jesus. (Luke 1:32, 33) So the ‘trampling’ would end when Jesus became King.
When would that grand event occur? Jesus showed that the Gentiles would rule for a fixed period of time. The account in Daniel chapter 4 holds the key to knowing how long that period would last. It relates a prophetic dream experienced by King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. He saw an immense tree that was chopped down. Its stump could not grow because it was banded with iron and copper. An angel declared: "Let seven times pass over it."—Daniel 4:10-16.
In the Bible, trees are sometimes used to represent rulership. (Ezekiel 17:22-24; 31:2-5) So the chopping down of the symbolic tree represents how God’s rulership, as expressed through the kings at Jerusalem, would be interrupted. However, the vision served notice that this ‘trampling of Jerusalem’ would be temporary—a period of "seven times." How long a period is that?
Revelation 12:6, 14 indicates that three and a half times equal "a thousand two hundred and sixty days." "Seven times" would therefore last twice as long, or 2,520 days. But the Gentile nations did not stop ‘trampling’ on God’s rulership a mere 2,520 days after Jerusalem’s fall. Evidently, then, this prophecy covers a much longer period of time. On the basis of Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6, which speak of "a day for a year," the "seven times" would cover 2,520 years.

The 2,520 years began in October 607 B.C.E., when Jerusalem fell to the Babylonians and the Davidic king was taken off his throne. The period ended in October 1914. At that time, "the appointed times of the nations" ended, and Jesus Christ was installed as God’s heavenly King.—Psalm 2:1-6; Daniel 7:13, 14.​

Just as Jesus predicted, his "presence" as heavenly King has been marked by dramatic world developments—war, famine, earthquakes, pestilences. (Matthew 24:3-8; Luke 21:11) Such developments bear powerful testimony to the fact that 1914 indeed marked the birth of God’s heavenly Kingdom and the beginning of "the last days" of this present wicked system of things.—2 Timothy 3:1-5

 

[BlaznFattyz]

trying to set a date of 1914 is preaching the watchtower instead of the gospel. the bible clearly states no one knows the end times but god. the bible clearly shows that the second christ was born, he was king of kings. if you are compelled to repeat watchtower doctrine, the date of 607 as the fall of jerusalem that you are stating doesnt seem to be correct.

Following are citations verifying that the correct date for the fall of Jerusalem was not 607 B.C, but 586 B.C.

• 
  [*]According to Encyclopedia.com, the Babylonian captivity, is defined as "the period from the fall of Jerusalem (586 B.C.) to the reconstruction in Palestine of a new Jewish state (after 538 B.C.)."
  [*]"You will recall that the Babylonians, under Nebuchadnezzar, after twice laying siege to Jerusalem, finally captured it in 586 B.C.E. Nebuchadnezzar's army then pillaged the city, destroying the Temple and sending the inhabitants off to exile in Babylonia.("Biblical Archaeological Review, Biblical Archaelogical Review).
  [*]"...Nebuchadnezzar promptly invaded his unhappy country and besieged Jerusalem for a year and a half. In 587 Jerusalem fell and numbers of its inhabitants were carried away captive to Babylonia..." (Unger, Merrill, F., Unger's Bible Dictionary, Moody Press, Chicago, 1966, page 782).
  • Notice that the year 587 is offered instead of 586. There is sometimes a difference of opinion as to which year is the exact one. Nevertheless, it is obvious that 607 B.C. is not even close.
  [*]"586, Jerusalem destroyed and burned (Jer. 52:13f.); people taken captive (52:28-30). (The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Eerdmans, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1982, page 1016)

 

[mee]

trying to set a date of 1914 is preaching the watchtower instead of the gospel. the bible clearly states no one knows the end times but god. the bible clearly shows that the second christ was born, he was king of kings. if you are compelled to repeat watchtower doctrine, the date of 607 as the fall of jerusalem that you are stating doesnt seem to be correct.

Following are citations verifying that the correct date for the fall of Jerusalem was not 607 B.C, but 586 B.C.

• 
  [*]According to Encyclopedia.com, the Babylonian captivity, is defined as "the period from the fall of Jerusalem (586 B.C.) to the reconstruction in Palestine of a new Jewish state (after 538 B.C.)."
  [*]"You will recall that the Babylonians, under Nebuchadnezzar, after twice laying siege to Jerusalem, finally captured it in 586 B.C.E. Nebuchadnezzar's army then pillaged the city, destroying the Temple and sending the inhabitants off to exile in Babylonia.("Biblical Archaeological Review, Biblical Archaelogical Review).
  [*]"...Nebuchadnezzar promptly invaded his unhappy country and besieged Jerusalem for a year and a half. In 587 Jerusalem fell and numbers of its inhabitants were carried away captive to Babylonia..." (Unger, Merrill, F., Unger's Bible Dictionary, Moody Press, Chicago, 1966, page 782).
  • Notice that the year 587 is offered instead of 586. There is sometimes a difference of opinion as to which year is the exact one. Nevertheless, it is obvious that 607 B.C. is not even close.
  [*]"586, Jerusalem destroyed and burned (Jer. 52:13f.); people taken captive (52:28-30). (The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Eerdmans, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1982, page 1016)

yes as you say , no one knows the day or the hour of Armaggeddon, only Jehovah knows that day , even Jesus does not know the day or the hour , but we do know that we are in the time of the end. regarding the 607 date,If we follow the accurate timekeeping of Jehovah God as recorded in his Word, we see that the desolation of Judah ran from 607 to 537 B.C.E. and we can avoid making the mistake of the chronologers of Christendom who ignore the prophecy of the seventy years’ desolation and date Jerusalem’s destruction as occurring in 587 B.C.E. They limit the desolation of Jerusalem and the land of Judah to merely fifty years, accepting the unreliable calculations of pagan historians rather than the infallible Word of God.—2 Chron. 36:19-23.

 

[Quahom1]

yes as you say , no one knows the day or the hour of Armaggeddon, only Jehovah knows that day , even Jesus does not know the day or the hour , but we do know that we are in the time of the end. regarding the 607 date,If we follow the accurate timekeeping of Jehovah God as recorded in his Word, we see that the desolation of Judah ran from 607 to 537 B.C.E. and we can avoid making the mistake of the chronologers of Christendom who ignore the prophecy of the seventy years’ desolation and date Jerusalem’s destruction as occurring in 587 B.C.E. They limit the desolation of Jerusalem and the land of Judah to merely fifty years, accepting the unreliable calculations of pagan historians rather than the infallible Word of God.—2 Chron. 36:19-23.

That is a contradiction of terms. Either we claim we know the end (as is the attempt to describe below the highlighted statement), or we do not know (as noted in the first part of the highlighted statement). I find it disturbing for humans to admit that Jesus doesn't even know the time, but we humans do? Or we humans have a better idea than that of Jesus?

I doubt it.

v/r

Q

 

[aburaees]

That is a contradiction of terms. Either we claim we know the end (as is the attempt to describe below the highlighted statement), or we do not know (as noted in the first part of the highlighted statement). I find it disturbing for humans to admit that Jesus doesn't even know the time, but we humans do? Or we humans have a better idea than that of Jesus?

I doubt it.

v/r

Q

I don't believe that is what he meant. I'm assuming that 1914 date and beyond is referring to the end times, and the "hour", which nobody but the father knows, is the culmination of the end times.

.

 

[Quahom1]

I don't believe that is what he meant. I'm assuming that 1914 date and beyond is referring to the end times, and the "hour", which nobody but the father knows, is the culmination of the end times.

.

Welcome to CR Aburaees. This is an exercise of thought between me and Mee. If you look throughout our posts, you will find we debate these issues regularly.

He knows exactly what I meant.

v/r

Q

 

[BlaznFattyz]

jesus, during the time he was on earth, may not have known the time as he was somewhat limited in knowledge being born human, but since he was resurrected back to heaven from where he came, he does know the hour now sitting on his throne in heaven as the omnipotent god. for people to continue to say that jesus does not know the hour, is speaking out of context and time.

 

[RubySera_Martin]

1914—A​

Significant Year in Bible Prophecy​

DECADES in advance, Bible students proclaimed that there would be significant developments in 1914. What were these, and what evidence points to 1914 as such an important year?​

Mee, thank you for posting this. Q, I realize that everyone's interpretation is just that--an interpretation, but I find it of great interest to see how various individuals interpret the Bible and why.

 

[RubySera_Martin]

if you are compelled to repeat watchtower doctrine, the date of 607 as the fall of jerusalem that you are stating doesnt seem to be correct.

Following are citations verifying that the correct date for the fall of Jerusalem was not 607 B.C, but 586 B.C.

Listen, BlaznFattyz, I begged Mee to give the info. You're just quibbling about details. It's not as though Mee pushed it on us. Unfortunately, I didn't get back to this thread until now and I appreciate that Mee shared JW beliefs as I asked. My sincere apologies for not getting back sooner. It's actually inexcusable--I simply forgot that I had asked such an important question. I ask forgiveness if you can extend it. If not, I know I deserve your anger.

Ruby

 

[Quahom1]

jesus, during the time he was on earth, may not have known the time as he was somewhat limited in knowledge being born human, but since he was resurrected back to heaven from where he came, he does know the hour now sitting on his throne in heaven as the omnipotent god. for people to continue to say that jesus does not know the hour, is speaking out of context and time.

This would contradict scripture. Jesus stated no one knows the hour but the Father.

Are you presuming that things would change once Jesus ascended into heaven?

There is nothing to collaborate that, that I'm aware of.

v/r

Q

 

[BlaznFattyz]

This would contradict scripture. Jesus stated no one knows the hour but the Father.

Are you presuming that things would change once Jesus ascended into heaven?

There is nothing to collaborate that, that I'm aware of.

v/r

Q

of course things changed once he went back to heaven, he left his status of being human on earth with limitations to being god in heaven with omnipotence once again.

 

[mee]

I don't believe that is what he meant. I'm assuming that 1914 date and beyond is referring to the end times, and the "hour", which nobody but the father knows, is the culmination of the end times.

.

yes that is correct , the time of the end ,or the last days , started in 1914 but the great day of Jehovah(Armaggeddon) no one knows the day or the hour , as the bible informs me in the following verses .
Concerning that day or the hour nobody knows, neither the angels in heaven nor the Son, but the Father. 33 Keep looking, keep awake, for you do not know when the appointed time is . mark 13;32
(Matthew 24:36) "Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.
(Matthew 25:13) "Keep on the watch, therefore, because you know neither the day nor the hour....................... Jehovah has an appointed time to bring Armageddon and only he knows the day and the hour. i am glad that the early bible students kept awake to bible prophecy and chronology because now they are not in the dark about where we are in the stream of time. but they have prepared themselves and concealed themselves to sail through the great tribulation .and those who listen to them .

 

[mee]

Death—Can We Understand It?
What occurs after death can be like a great question mark. ...interesting link

 

[enton]

Death—Can We Understand It?
What occurs after death can be like a great question mark. ...interesting link

The Name of God

" Now, God’s name and its pronunciation have become a debatable issue. ...And if we are going to refer to the foreword of the Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures, which was translated by the Jehovah’s Witnesses in 1950, it says—

“While inclining to view the pronunciation “Yahweh” as the more correct way, we have retained the form “Jehovah” because of people’s familiarity with it since the 14th century.”

For full reading, click "The Name of God".

 

[mee]

The Name of God

" Now, God’s name and its pronunciation have become a debatable issue. ...And if we are going to refer to the foreword of the Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures, which was translated by the Jehovah’s Witnesses in 1950, it says—

“While inclining to view the pronunciation “Yahweh” as the more correct way, we have retained the form “Jehovah” because of people’s familiarity with it since the 14th century.”

For full reading, click "The Name of God".

links from anything other than the official JW site will never lead to accurate knowledge , i find it is always best to go to the official site, as it leads to accurate knowledge .http://www.watchtower.org/
New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures and of coarse the bible itself.................................................................................................And they know that Thou -- (Thy name [is] Jehovah -- by Thyself,) [Art] the Most High over all the earth!.....YOUNGS LITRAL TRANSLATION

 

[enton]

links from anything other than the official JW site will never lead to accurate knowledge , i find it is always best to go to the official site, as it leads to accurate knowledge .http://www.watchtower.org/
New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures and of coarse the bible itself.................................................................................................And they know that Thou -- (Thy name [is] Jehovah -- by Thyself,) [Art] the Most High over all the earth!.....YOUNGS LITRAL TRANSLATION

Anyway, let's see if the Jehovah's witnesses are really preferring to incline to believe of the Hebrew Name of God:

How Is God's Name Pronounced?

The truth is, nobody knows for sure how the name of God was originally pronounced. Why not? Well, the first language used in writing the Bible was Hebrew, and when the Hebrew language was written down, the writers wrote only consonants—not vowels. Hence, when the inspired writers wrote God's name, they naturally did the same thing and wrote only the consonants.
http://www.watchtower.org/library/na/index.htm

The Divine Name Through the Ages

In 1975 and 1976, archaeologists working in the Negeb uncovered a collection of Hebrew and Phoenician inscriptions on plaster walls, large storage jars and stone vessels. The inscriptions included the Hebrew word for God, as well as God's name, YHWH, in Hebrew letters.

http://www.watchtower.org/library/na/index.htm

Oh! God's Name - YHWH. But why did they prefer their neology "Jehovah" instead?
Well, the technique is reconstruction:
YHWH (they don't like, but they believe it.)
JHVH (they prefer, but they can't pronounce it.)
J ( E ) H ( O ) V ( A ) H

I wonder who told these JHVHs witnesses that the incorrect JHVH form must be infixed with the vowels e, o, and a (and to exclue, i and u) , while they accepted YHWH as God's Name.