the Bible from a Jehovah's Witness perspective

[Quahom1]

No Q I was saying welcome to the New World Translation cause he specifically mentioned the way it is changed in the post I quoted.
So thank you very much.

Ok.

 

[mee]

Hello Mee....and all

Hi, yes i also think ( all sorts of men )is a reasonable translation as it goes along in harmony with the rest of the bible teaching,
After these things I saw, and, look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. And they keep on crying with a loud voice, saying: "Salvation [we owe] to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb............. revelation 7;9-10 there is no partiality with God,
"For a certainty I perceive that God is not partial, but in every nation the man that fears him and works righteousness is acceptable to him."—Ac 10:34, 35; Ro 2:10, 11. yes men from all nations
(Isaiah 2:2) And it must occur in the final part of the days [that] the mountain of the house of Jehovah will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, and it will certainly be lifted up above the hills; and to it all the nations must stream.............. yes , we are now in the final part of the days ,and many from all nations are on an elavated spiritual place , because they have taken in instruction from Jehovah.
And many peoples will certainly go and say: "Come, YOU people, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, Isaiah 2;3
And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, neither will they learn war anymore.................. Jehovahs instruction is most beneficial to us . and i love it, for me there is no better place to be,

 

[mee]

They know they are not doing right. It is only lip service for show (the only reward they get is the audience they command here on earth. It has nothing to do with those that try in earnest to do what God wants (though they are mistaken), that Jesus recognizes as His own.

As much as you think you are right in what you do, others think they are right in how they follow Christ (to the best of their understanding). Jesus I opine will recognize both you and they.

But for those who do nothing but put on a show, He will say "I don't know you". That is the message we are bluntly told, Mee.

Not whether the proper "religion" was followed. And I submit according to the new testament, that it isn't Jehovah (God the Father) that saves man, nor can man go directly to Jehovah (on anything). It is only Jesus that is man's salvation. Therefore what Jesus said, best be not taken lightly, nor should He be considered second fiddle when eternity is considered.

my thoughts.

v/r

Q

yes you are quite right ,Jesus plays a very very big part in the out working of Jehovahs purpose for this earth . we should listen to him, there is no salvation in any one else

 

[mee]

Of the many gifts you could ever hope to receive, there is one that stands out above all others. It is a gift from God to mankind. Jehovah has given us many things, but his greatest gift to us is the ransom sacrifice of his Son, Jesus Christ. (Matthew 20:28) the ransom is the most valuable gift you could possibly receive, for it can bring untold happiness and can fill our most important needs. The ransom is really the greatest expression of Jehovah’s love for you.
Just as the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his soul a ransom in exchange for many. matthew 20;28
what is the ransom?
Put simply, the ransom is Jehovah’s means to deliver, or save, humankind from sin and death. (Ephesians 1:7)
How would it be possible to cover the enormous loss that Adam inflicted on all of us and to release us from slavery to sin and death?
Since a perfect human life was lost, no imperfect human life could ever buy it back. (Psalm 49:7, 8) What was needed was a ransom equal in value to what was lost. This is in harmony with the principle of perfect justice found in God’s Word, which says: "Soul will be for soul." (Deuteronomy 19:21) So, what would cover the value of the perfect human soul, or life, that Adam lost? Another perfect human life was the "corresponding ransom" that was required.—1 Timothy 2:6.
How did Jehovah provide the ransom? He sent one of his perfect spirit sons to the earth. But Jehovah did not send just any spirit creature. He sent the one most precious to him, his only-begotten Son. (1 John 4:9, 10) Willingly, this Son left his heavenly home. (Philippians 2:7) what a wonderful gift to us

 

[mee]

The Divine Name Through the Ages
There is evidence from sources outside the Bible of the extensive use of the divine name in ancient times.

 

[mee]

True Teachings—Where Can You Find Them?
Out of the vast array of beliefs, how can we identify true teachings that please God?

 

[RubySera_Martin]

Re: A question to all Christians, anyone can answer though.

the wicked one is still in power untill he is destroyed by God . in 1914 he was cast out of heaven , upuntill that date he had access still , but not after that date ,the wicked one has no power over Gods heavenly kingdom after that date . but satan is on death row and he knows it

This is very strange--the idea that the wicked one was cast out of heaven in 1914 AD. Jesus said two thousand years ago that he saw Satan fall from heaven. So I guess Satan was cast out long before 1914. I'm not sure how anyone could come up with this idea being we have clear scripture to contradict it.

 

[mee]

Re: A question to all Christians, anyone can answer though.

This is very strange--the idea that the wicked one was cast out of heaven in 1914 AD. Jesus said two thousand years ago that he saw Satan fall from heaven. So I guess Satan was cast out long before 1914. I'm not sure how anyone could come up with this idea being we have clear scripture to contradict it.

So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. ..... revelation 12;9 the book of revelation is for our day , we are in the Lords day right now, its all happening in this time of the end. Jesus cast the rebels out of his heavenly goverment because rebels do not work in line with Jehovah and Jesus christ , they are against Gods purpose..... so out they are thrown.

 

[aburaees]

Re: A question to all Christians, anyone can answer though.

This is very strange--the idea that the wicked one was cast out of heaven in 1914 AD. Jesus said two thousand years ago that he saw Satan fall from heaven. So I guess Satan was cast out long before 1914. I'm not sure how anyone could come up with this idea being we have clear scripture to contradict it.

It's not so strange if you take Jesus' words to be a prophecy in this instance.

 

[RubySera_Martin]

Re: A question to all Christians, anyone can answer though.

So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. ..... revelation 12;9 the book of revelation is for our day , we are in the Lords day right now, its all happening in this time of the end. Jesus cast the rebels out of his heavenly goverment because rebels do not work in line with Jehovah and Jesus christ , they are against Gods purpose..... so out they are thrown.

How do you know it happened in 1914?

Jesus lived long before 1914. He said it had already happened back in his day. This seems to call Jesus a liar. I don't think that is what you mean, and this has me seriously puzzled.

 

[RubySera_Martin]

Re: A question to all Christians, anyone can answer though.

It's not so strange if you take Jesus' words to be a prophecy in this instance.

Why would we take it as prophecy? Here's the passage:

Luke 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. 18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. 19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/#_ftn1 http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/#_ftnref1The Holy Bible : King James Version. 1995 . Logos Research Systems, Inc.: Oak Harbor, WA



It's in the past tense.

Jesus is saying: Don't be surprised that the devils listen to you. I myself saw Satan fall from heaven. If the Master of the Kingdom of Darkness has fallen, it is to be believed that the servants or lesser devils obey you. I give you power over the enemy. Don't give it a thought. Just be glad your names are written in heaven.

 

[mee]

Jesus knows that after the birth of God’s Kingdom in 1914 at the time of the end, Satan and his demons are to be cast out of heaven. But now this casting out of unseen demons by mere humans serves as added assurance of that coming event. Therefore, Jesus speaks of the future fall of Satan from heaven as a certainty.
it is in a symbolic sense that the 70 are given authority to trample serpents and scorpions.

 

[RubySera_Martin]

Jesus knows that after the birth of God’s Kingdom in 1914 at the time of the end, Satan and his demons are to be cast out of heaven. But now this casting out of unseen demons by mere humans serves as added assurance of that coming event. Therefore, Jesus speaks of the future fall of Satan from heaven as a certainty.
it is in a symbolic sense that the 70 are given authority to trample serpents and scorpions.

I guess the question for me is how do humans know that God's kingdom was born in 1914?

How do humans know that Satan was cast out of heaven in 1914?

What evidence do humans have that anything special happened in the spiritual realm in 1914?

Why did Jesus say "I beheld Satan fall" (past tense) if he meant ninteen centuries in the future?

Based on what I have seen of JWs, they tend to have some kind of logical answer for their beliefs. I can't quite figure out what the logic is behind these assertions. Can you help me out?

 

[aburaees]

I guess the question for me is how do humans know that God's kingdom was born in 1914?

How do humans know that Satan was cast out of heaven in 1914?

What evidence do humans have that anything special happened in the spiritual realm in 1914?

Why did Jesus say "I beheld Satan fall" (past tense) if he meant ninteen centuries in the future?

Based on what I have seen of JWs, they tend to have some kind of logical answer for their beliefs. I can't quite figure out what the logic is behind these assertions. Can you help me out?

I guess they wouldn't know but would believe considering the signs of the times in question. Why not 1918 when there was the Spanish flu pandemic? Killed more people than WWI and WWII combined.

Many prophecies are spoken in Past Tense - because the prophets are describing the visions they have seen of the future. Consider Revelations, mostly in Past tense but does anyone consider the events to have come to pass before Revelations was written on paper?

 

[RubySera_Martin]

I guess they wouldn't know but would believe considering the signs of the times in question.

Thanks. This explains things for me.

Consider Revelations, mostly in Past tense but does anyone consider the events to have come to pass before Revelations was written on paper?

Yes and no. Yes insofar as many people believe Revalation is a metaphorical description of things that were happening at the moment. It's writing would be considered to have significant Gnostic influence. No insofar that it does seem to be speaking of the end of the world, which had not yet occurred at the time.

Many people do not believe that any of the biblical prophecies were intended for distant future times; these people believe the prophecies were predictions of what was expected to happen in the foreseeable future.

I understand that this is not the traditional Christian view, but it is a view I did not make up.

 

[BlaznFattyz]

Jesus knows that after the birth of God’s Kingdom in 1914 at the time of the end, Satan and his demons are to be cast out of heaven. But now this casting out of unseen demons by mere humans serves as added assurance of that coming event. Therefore, Jesus speaks of the future fall of Satan from heaven as a certainty.
it is in a symbolic sense that the 70 are given authority to trample serpents and scorpions.

no, jesus saw satan fall from heaven, past tense, he cast him out. consequently there are demons here on earth. jesus while he walked with us, had the power to cast them out of people, such as legion. they knew who jesus was, the creator of all things, the almighty god. they probably thought because they saw him it was the end of their time, rather than be sent to the lake of fire for eternity, they asked to be sent into pigs instead. that same power jesus has to cast out satan, jesus gave to his disciples for a while to complete the huge task in front of them and to show people who the true god is, thus building up the church.

 

[mee]

no, jesus saw satan fall from heaven, past tense, he cast him out. consequently there are demons here on earth. jesus while he walked with us, had the power to cast them out of people, such as legion. they knew who jesus was, the creator of all things, the almighty god. they probably thought because they saw him it was the end of their time, rather than be sent to the lake of fire for eternity, they asked to be sent into pigs instead. that same power jesus has to cast out satan, jesus gave to his disciples for a while to complete the huge task in front of them and to show people who the true god is, thus building up the church.[/quote before 1914 satan could come and go from heaven to earth , some time in heaven ,sometime on the earth . but when Jesus was made king of Gods heavenly kingdom goverment in 1914, the first thing that Jesus did was not allow the rebel back in heaven anymore. that is why the earth is full of things in opposition to Gods purpose, and satan knows that he has a short period of time left.
All who remained in that heavenly realm were loyal to Jehovah and fully submissive to his sovereignty. but not those who were thrown out of the heavens. they were in opposition to Gods purpose.
when the wicked angels still had access to heaven, they were outcasts from God’s family and under definite restrictions. For instance, Jude 6 reveals that already in the first century C.E., they were "reserved with eternal bonds under dense [spiritual] darkness for the judgment of the great day." Likewise, 2 Peter 2:4 says: "God did not hold back from punishing the angels that sinned, but, by throwing them into Tartarus [a state of utter debasement], delivered them to pits of dense [spiritual] darkness to be reserved for judgment

 

[mee]

I guess the question for me is how do humans know that God's kingdom was born in 1914?

How do humans know that Satan was cast out of heaven in 1914?

What evidence do humans have that anything special happened in the spiritual realm in 1914?

Why did Jesus say "I beheld Satan fall" (past tense) if he meant ninteen centuries in the future?

Based on what I have seen of JWs, they tend to have some kind of logical answer for their beliefs. I can't quite figure out what the logic is behind these assertions. Can you help me out?

All of the beliefs of JW are bible based, and the date of 1914 is based on bible prophecy and chronology, Jesus was made king of Gods heavenly goverment right on time in line with bible prophecy and chronology, ....... the appointed times of the nations ,or the end of the gentile times .
How did JW know more than 30 years in advance that 1914 would be an important date for divine rulership? Though the JW at the time did not understand the full implication of events about to take place, the Watch Tower magazine as far back as December of 1879 pointed to 1914 as a marked date in regard to Bible prophecy. And the March 1880 issue of the Watch Tower linked God’s Kingdom rule with the ending of what Jesus Christ referred to as "the appointed times of the nations," or "the times of the Gentiles." (Luke 21:24; Authorized Version) That Watch Tower said: "‘The Times of the Gentiles’ extend to 1914, and the heavenly kingdom will not have full sway till then. ...............yes i can see its all happening in this time right now, i am glad the early bible students of the bible ,kept awake to the prophecies in the bible , and did not fall asleep to them because Jehovah reveals many things to the ones who did not fall asleep . thrilling times indeed .

 

[BlaznFattyz]

no, jesus saw satan fall from heaven, past tense, he cast him out. consequently there are demons here on earth. jesus while he walked with us, had the power to cast them out of people, such as legion. they knew who jesus was, the creator of all things, the almighty god. they probably thought because they saw him it was the end of their time, rather than be sent to the lake of fire for eternity, they asked to be sent into pigs instead. that same power jesus has to cast out satan, jesus gave to his disciples for a while to complete the huge task in front of them and to show people who the true god is, thus building up the church.[/quote before 1914 satan could come and go from heaven to earth , some time in heaven ,sometime on the earth . but when Jesus was made king of Gods heavenly kingdom goverment in 1914, the first thing that Jesus did was not allow the rebel back in heaven anymore. that is why the earth is full of things in opposition to Gods purpose, and satan knows that he has a short period of time left.
All who remained in that heavenly realm were loyal to Jehovah and fully submissive to his sovereignty. but not those who were thrown out of the heavens. they were in opposition to Gods purpose.
when the wicked angels still had access to heaven, they were outcasts from God’s family and under definite restrictions. For instance, Jude 6 reveals that already in the first century C.E., they were "reserved with eternal bonds under dense [spiritual] darkness for the judgment of the great day." Likewise, 2 Peter 2:4 says: "God did not hold back from punishing the angels that sinned, but, by throwing them into Tartarus [a state of utter debasement], delivered them to pits of dense [spiritual] darkness to be reserved for judgment

you have no scripture to support your 1914, because its not there. same old preaching of the watchtower rather than the gospel.

 

[wil]

you have no scripture to support your 1914, because its not there. same old preaching of the watchtower rather than the gospel.

This is where I get confused on Christianity and forgiveness, love and compassion.

There are two sides to every story and while I don't understand the JW perspective, this is thread discussing that, if one doesn't have a beneficial remark, is any remark required?

On the other side, since the 1914 is touted so much there has to be a chart/graph/spreadsheet someplace that allows clearly one to say ok we are starting here...and then due to this we add, and due to this scripture we add...

I'm really finding in life if you want someone to understand something, or do something, or give something....make it easy for them...lay the cards on the table...

From what I've seen of Ruby's posts I'd assume her interest in expanding her knowledge and exploring concepts/ideas foriegn to her is sincere.

And from what I've seen of mee's posts they are nothing but sincere, you gotta admire faith...and I see no need to dis ones path, the concept of oneness and the omnipresence of spirit indicates that if we do we are dissing are own...hmmm that is me being judgemental again....