God, gender and women's place in abrahamic religions

The passages referring to gender imbalances in the UK are entirely inacurate as the 1991 population census clearly shows. The difference in gender is less than 1% and is largely a factor of greater longevity in woman. http://www.statistics.gov.uk/glance/#population
This is the central pillar in his argument supporting polygamy and I suspect sex ratio statistics from the other quoted nations will be similairly flawed. The fact is in Islamic states if you have the cash you can do what you want and all the arguments trying to preach the morality of it are nonsense.

I think to most westerners view point Islam is extremely discriminatory to women. And in terms of the substantial freedoms western women have fought for from the time of the suffragettes they can be seen as barbaric. The whole emphasis is on women covering up to avoid lust or temptation.....so women have to cover up because men cant control themselves....that in itself is a fundamental discrimination forcing one group to pay the price for the others weakness. Most ordinary muslim women are afraid to talk to a non muslim man, not because they have lustful thoughts but because they fear their men. I have seen this palpable fear myself many times and it disgusts me that people should be so afraid. And I wont even bother to get started on the muslim practice of female genital mutilation. To sum up, trying to convince westerners that Islam or Muslims treat their women as EQUAL citizens is like trying to perseuade us the Earth is made of marzipan.

TE
 
Zakir Naik is a favorite of Muslim apologetics.
Muslims take much pains at trying to defend positions other cultures resent very much, as polygamy, early marriage for girls, or the veil.
I'm amazed that he says the Quran is the only scriptures that says marry only one woman and that Christians were permitted polygamy until the Church (which one?) forbade it.
He thinks the best apologetics is to assert the contrary of reality. People who copy-paste his web pages should read them before.
 
The passages referring to gender imbalances in the UK are entirely inacurate as the 1991 population census clearly shows. The difference in gender is less than 1% and is largely a factor of greater longevity in woman. http://www.statistics.gov.uk/glance/#population
This is the central pillar in his argument supporting polygamy and I suspect sex ratio statistics from the other quoted nations will be similairly flawed. The fact is in Islamic states if you have the cash you can do what you want and all the arguments trying to preach the morality of it are nonsense.

I think to most westerners view point Islam is extremely discriminatory to women. And in terms of the substantial freedoms western women have fought for from the time of the suffragettes they can be seen as barbaric. The whole emphasis is on women covering up to avoid lust or temptation.....so women have to cover up because men cant control themselves....that in itself is a fundamental discrimination forcing one group to pay the price for the others weakness. Most ordinary muslim women are afraid to talk to a non muslim man, not because they have lustful thoughts but because they fear their men. I have seen this palpable fear myself many times and it disgusts me that people should be so afraid. And I wont even bother to get started on the muslim practice of female genital mutilation. To sum up, trying to convince westerners that Islam or Muslims treat their women as EQUAL citizens is like trying to perseuade us the Earth is made of marzipan.


Islam is the fastest growing religion of the world .Those peopel who are converting to islam majority of them are women if islam do not treat men and women equally so why more women are converting to islam than men ?

please dont judge islam by watching muslims. if you want to judge islam than judge by athentic source Quran and Sahih HADITH of the prophet (PEACE AND BLESSSING OF ALL MIGHTY ALLAH (GOD) BE UPON HIM)
 
Hunain

What do you think of Zakir Naik saying the Quran tells to marry only one woman ?
Was Muhammad wrong or Zakir Naik ?
 
Peace to all ...

Tao said...
This is the central pillar in his argument supporting polygamy and I suspect sex ratio statistics from the other quoted nations will be similairly flawed.
The pillar that supports polygamy in this argument is not the sex ratio but the factual explanation that Dr.Zakir Naik has provided. You might want to consider re-reading and try to understand the whole text with fair-minded not bias judgement. As for the statistics; generally the whole world is dominated by women in terms of numbers/population and everybody knows that.

Tao said...
The fact is in Islamic states if you have the cash you can do what you want and all the arguments trying to preach the morality of it are nonsense.
woww there...are you talking based on facts...seems to me you're just making a sweeping statement. That's very nasty and wild accusation. Better be careful with your words. I think the only nonsense here is your attitude in perceiving arguments. Let me share sumthing with you...my country, an Islamic country, polygamy issue is not taken lightly. Rules and regulations based on the syariah law (Islamic law) has been implemented to do justice to all parties. Each state in my country has its' own "Islamic family law" which is to do justice to all parties in terms of welfare and basic rights.Any men who has any intention to practice polygamy is advised to attend a course just to make sure they know their responsibility and the circumstances he might face with. And that's not it...any parties denied of their rights have the right to drag the case to court any time. So any men who wants to practice polygamy might want to think twice and self check thoroughly...it's not easy. After all polygamy is not compulsory in Islam but exceptional. God states it very clear and straight forward in the Quran:
Marry women of your choice, two, or three, or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one.” [Al-Qur’an 4:3]

Tao said...
I think to most westerners view point Islam is extremely discriminatory to women.
What you thought is indeed an actuality.This is due to lack of understanding among westerners on some of the basic tenets of Islam. When a Christian woman choose to be a nun and covers her body with a top to toe dress, she is honored for her devotion to Christianity. But when a Muslim woman dresses according to her belief, she is most likely to be associated with discrimination. Why?...just because she is a Muslim. Get the picture...

Tao said...
The whole emphasis is on women covering up to avoid lust or temptation.....so women have to cover up because men cant control themselves....that in itself is a fundamental discrimination forcing one group to pay the price for the others weakness.
If you read carefully through the passage, it works both way. There's not only Hijab for women but for men as well... And Hijab is not limited to garments only but also applied in moral conduct, behaviour, attitude and intention of the individual. Dear Tao, do yourself a favour and read through again and this time carefully before making any fallacious comment.Why do you always have to start something like this..:confused:

Tao said...
Most ordinary muslim women are afraid to talk to a non muslim man, not because they have lustful thoughts but because they fear their men. I have seen this palpable fear myself many times and it disgusts me that people should be so afraid.
There you go again making vague allegation. How many Muslim women have you met so far...100? 200?...is that figure adequate to represent all the Muslimah in this world. Seems to me your arguments correlate in mala fide...

Mansio said...
Muslims take much pains at trying to defend positions other cultures resent very much, as polygamy, early marriage for girls, or the veil.
Defending what you believe in and what you think is worth defending for...don't you think it is the right thing to do?! The resentment is due to lack of understanding between religious culture and unawareness. As for the early marriage for girls, it is not a doctrine or law in Islam. It is much more related to ethnic cultural custom. I predict many will put forward the argument about Prophet Muhammad PBUH marrying a 6 year old girl.The truth is Prophet Muhammad PBUH and Aisya was only bethroted (a mutual promise to marry) when Aisya was 6.The marriage only took place after the Hijrah to Medina when Aisya may have been anywhere between 9 to 17 years old. And we all know that girls reach maturity much much earlier than boys. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad's_marriages

Mansio said...
I'm amazed that he says the Quran is the only scriptures that says marry only one woman and that Christians were permitted polygamy until the Church (which one?) forbade it.
If you know any holy scriptures that stated the number of wives permitted, please show me. I would really like to know. And please read the the whole of Quran 4:3, not just half of it.
The Christians did practice polygamy b4.Which church?..you can always search the internet. Here, this might help ---> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy

Mansio said...
He thinks the best apologetics is to assert the contrary of reality. People who copy-paste his web pages should read them before.
I don't see anything contrary. Maybe just a few insignificant facts and figures. I've read it a few times already and i think it is relevant to InquisitiveInHalifax's doubts regarding womens' status in monotheistic religion.

Peace...:cool:
 
mansio said:
Hunain

What do you think of Zakir Naik saying the Quran tells to marry only one woman ?
Was Muhammad wrong or Zakir Naik ?

Allah (GOD) say in Quran chapter 4. Surah An-Nisa' Verses 3

And if ye fear that ye will not deal fairly by the orphans, marry of the women,who seem good to you, two or three or four; and if ye fear that ye cannot do justice (to so many) then one (only) or (the captives) that your right hands possess. Thus it is more likely that ye will not do injustice.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Meaning Of The Glorious QuraanTranslated into the English Language By Marmaduke Pickthall

"... The Qur'an cannot be translated. ...The book is here rendered almost literally and every effort has been made to choose befitting language. But the result is not the Glorious Qur'an, that inimitable symphony, the very sounds of which move men to tears and ecstasy. It is only an attempt to present the meaning of the Qur'an-and peradventure something of the charm in English. It can never take the place of the Qur'an in Arabic, nor is it meant to do so..." [Marmaduke Pickthall, 1930]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

and Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) never say that a muslim should marry more than one wife (It is only optional) if a men can do justice
between wives than he can marry one,tow,three,four but not more than four
marriage become complusory when a person is able to support a wife (one marriage is complusory in islam other three are optional if a person want and if he can do justice

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Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said marriage complete half your DEEN (religion)
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NOTE :- If a person marry more than one wife he will not gona get more blessing.Blessing remain the same
 
N4h1z

Where is it stated that Christians were allowed several wives ?
Where in the Quran is it stated that men aren't allowed several wives ?
Was Muhammad, the example to follow, wrong by having several wives ?

I've just read Hunain's post which confirms that Zakir Naik is wrong concerning Muslim marriage.
 
mansio said:
N4h1z

Where is it stated that Christians were allowed several wives ?
Where in the Quran is it stated that men aren't allowed several wives ?
Was Muhammad, the example to follow, wrong by having several wives ?


its 12 am here in pakistan i will answer your Questiontomorrow INSHA ALLAH (GODWillingly)
 
Nahiz,

What you thought is indeed an actuality.This is due to lack of understanding among westerners on some of the basic tenets of Islam
.
There is no lack of understanding. In the west we are born free and are not indoctrinated from birth. Thus we can see Islam a good step back from where you can.

When a Christian woman chooses to be a nun and covers her body with a top to toe dress, she is honored for her devotion to Christianity. But when a Muslim woman dresses according to her belief, she is most likely to be associated with discrimination. Why?...just because she is a Muslim. Get the picture...
The difference between a nun and a muslim woman is that the nun makes that choice of her own free will. The society in which she lives will not shun, beat, abuse or even murder her if she choses another path. I come from the UK, the city of Edinburgh with a large ethnic muslim population. The way the men behave is very different to the way the women behave. You might state that its equal but in practice, IN REALITY, it is anything but. I have also travelled widely, to Morrocco, Tunisia, Egypt, India and Pakistan. I do not hold my views from lack of understanding and to me it is not possible to accept any statement that muslim woman enjoy equality in any sense of the word. And thats the case in my own country and every other I have visited. You ask me to re-read what you post, I dont have to. Reading it once I can already see it follows the same pattern of rational perseuasion that any Islamic, or for that matter any religeous evangelism, attempts to use. And like all the others when you start looking at the points one by one and compare them with reality it crumbles into dust.

Dear Tao, do yourself a favour and read through again and this time carefully before making any fallacious comment.Why do you always have to start something like this..:confused:
There I go again? I have not the right to challenge what I see to be 'fallacious'??? Many many a muslim would openly call me an infidel and worthy only of execution because I am neither muslim nor of any of the Abrahamic sects, not a Dhimmi but a lowly Kafir. Dhimmi itself is a gross discrimination, Kafir is fascist. I dislike Islam for what reason do you think?
Much of what muslims are to be found quoting are not even from the Koran but interpretations, Hadiths, of meaning made sometimes 4-500 years after the death of Muhamad. The Koran itself springs from a single text written long after his death. The leader who sanctioned this to be the 'official' Koran sent his people out to destroy any conflicting versions of what Muhamad has supposed to have said. Nowhere in any of the history regarding the sources of the Koran do I see anything but the development of a political tool to subdue free will in the population.
Islam does not separate politics and religeon and this is a fundamental point. Islam is a political tool, very similair to what the catholic church employed in Europe for so long. Islam is a regression to the dark ages in my opinion and until such times that it rids itself of its many discriminatory and fascist ideas I will continue to call it what it is. If that offends you then perhaps you should take a look at the history of religeous wars in Europe and understand that we europeans have been there, seen it , done it and rejected it. The religeons have been removed from politics and deal now with what they should- faith, hope and charity.
And if you think I discriminate against Islam you are wrong I will stand up and attempt to be heard wherever I see discrimination, bigotry, fascism or any of their brothers. My God is not a book it is LIFE itself. When Islam recognises that we are all created equal and die equal and stops trying to pretend it's the word of God then I will have no issue with it. Islam does not tolerate criticism, your 'enlightened' brothers issue fatwahs on those who speak out against it. As long as they behave this way there will be no end to western views.

P.S. I have several muslim friends and a muslim brother in law. I fully understand that not all muslims agree with the discrimination pumped out by their leaders.
 
mansio said:
N4h1z

Where is it stated that Christians were allowed several wives ?
Where in the Quran is it stated that men aren't allowed several wives ?
Was Muhammad, the example to follow, wrong by having several wives ?

I've just read Hunain's post which confirms that Zakir Naik is wrong concerning Muslim marriage.

zakir naik never say that quran say marry only one
he always code form the quran chapter 4. Surah An-Nisa' Verses 3:-

And if ye fear that ye will not deal fairly by the orphans, marry of the women,who seem good to you, two or three or four; and if ye fear that ye cannot do justice (to so many) then one (only) or (the captives) that your right hands possess. Thus it is more likely that ye will not do injustice.

and he always code full Verses 3 and he is right quran say marry 1,2,3 or4 but if you can cannot do justice than marry only one

there is a misunderstanding between you and zakir naik
please download zakir naik book REPLIES TO THE MOST COMMON QUESTIONS ASKED BY NON-MUSLIMS

other Books Authored by Dr. Zakir Naik are available Here
 
POLYGAMY

Question:

Why is a man allowed to have more than one wife in Islam? i.e. why is polygamy allowed in Islam?

Answer:

Definition of Polygamy

1. Polygamy means a system of marriage whereby one person has more than one spouse. Polygamy can be of two types. One is polygyny where a man marries more than one woman, and the other is polyandry, where a woman marries more than one man. In Islam, limited polygyny is permitted; whereas polyandry is completely prohibited.
Now coming to the original question, why is a man allowed to have more than one wife?


2. The Qur’an is the only religious scripture in the world that says,"marry only one".

The Qur’an is the only religious book, on the face of this earth, that contains the phrase ‘marry only one’. There is no other religious book that instructs men to have only one wife. In none of the other religious scriptures, whether it be the Vedas, the Ramayan, the Mahabharat, the Geeta, the Talmud or the Bible does one find a restriction on the number of wives. According to these scriptures one can marry as many as one wishes. It was only later, that the Hindu priests and the Christian Church restricted the number of wives to one.

Many Hindu religious personalities, according to their scriptures, had multiple wives. King Dashrat, the father of Rama, had more than one wife. Krishna had several wives.

In earlier times, Christian men were permitted as many wives as they wished, since the Bible puts no restriction on the number of wives. It was only a few centuries ago that the Church restricted the number of wives to one.

Polygyny is permitted in Judaism. According to Talmudic law, Abraham had three wives, and Solomon had hundreds of wives. The practice of polygyny continued till Rabbi Gershom ben Yehudah (95% C.E to 1030 C.E) issued an edict against it. The Jewish Sephardic communities living in Muslim countries continued the practice till as late as 1950, until an Act of the Chief Rabbinate of Israel extended the ban on marrying more than one wife.


3. Hindus are more polygynous than Muslims

The report of the ‘Committee of The Status of Woman in Islam’, published in 1975 mentions on page numbers 66 and 67 that the percentage of polygamous marriages between the years 1951 and 1961 was 5.06% among the Hindus and only 4.31% among the Muslims. According to Indian law only Muslim men are permitted to have more than one wife. It is illegal for any non-Muslim in India to have more than one wife. Despite it being illegal, Hindus have more multiple wives as compared to Muslims. Earlier, there was no restriction even on Hindu men with respect to the number of wives allowed. It was only in 1954, when the Hindu Marriage Act was passed that it became illegal for a Hindu to have more than one wife. At present it is the Indian Law that restricts a Hindu man from having more than one wife and not the Hindu scriptures.

Let us now analyse why Islam allows a man to have more than one wife.


4. Qur’an permits limited polygyny

As I mentioned earlier, Qur’an is the only religious book on the face of the earth that says ‘marry only one’. The context of this phrase is the following verse from Surah Nisa of the Glorious Qur’an:

"Marry women of your choice, two, or three, or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one." [Al-Qur’an 4:3]

Before the Qur’an was revealed, there was no upper limit for polygyny and many men had scores of wives, some even hundreds. Islam put an upper limit of four wives. Islam gives a man permission to marry two, three or four women, only on the condition that he deals justly with them.

In the same chapter i.e. Surah Nisa verse 129 says:

"Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women...." [Al-Qur’an 4:129]

Therefore polygyny is not a rule but an exception. Many people are under the misconception that it is compulsory for a Muslim man to have more than one wife.

Broadly, Islam has five categories of Do’s and Don’ts:

i. ‘Fard’ i.e. compulsory or obligatory

ii. ‘Mustahab’ i.e. recommended or encouraged

iii. 'Mubah’ i.e. permissible or allowed

iv. ‘Makruh’ i.e. not recommended or discouraged

v. ‘Haraam’ i.e. prohibited or forbidden

Polygyny falls in the middle category of things that are permissible. It cannot be said that a Muslim who has two, three or four wives is a better Muslim as compared to a Muslim who has only one wife.


5. Average life span of females is more than that of males

By nature males and females are born in approximately the same ratio. A female child has more immunity than a male child. A female child can fight the germs and diseases better than the male child. For this reason, during the pediatric age itself there are more deaths among males as compared to the females.

During wars, there are more men killed as compared to women. More men die due to accidents and diseases than women. The average life span of females is more than that of males, and at any given time one finds more widows in the world than widowers.


6. India has more male population than female due to female foeticide and infanticide

India is one of the few countries, along with the other neighbouring countries, in which the female population is less than the male population. The reason lies in the high rate of female infanticide in India, and the fact that more than one million female fetuses are aborted every year in this country, after they are identified as females. If this evil practice is stopped, then India too will have more females as compared to males.


7. World female population is more than male population

In the USA, women outnumber men by 7.8 million. New York alone has one million more females as compared to the number of males, and of the male population of New York one-third are gays i.e sodomites. The U.S.A as a whole has more than twenty-five million gays. This means that these people do not wish to marry women. Great Britain has four million more females as compared to males. Germany has five million more females as compared to males. Russia has nine million more females than males. God alone knows how many million more females there are in the whole world as compared to males.


8. Restricting each and every man to have only one wife is not practical

Even if every man got married to one woman, there would still be more than thirty million females in U.S.A who would not be able to get husbands (considering that America has twenty five million gays). There would be more than four million females in Great Britain, 5 million females in Germany and nine million females in Russia alone who would not be able to find a husband.

Suppose my sister happens to be one of the unmarried women living in USA, or suppose your sister happens to be one of the unmarried women in USA. The only two options remaining for her are that she either marries a man who already has a wife or becomes public property. There is no other option. All those who are modest will opt for the first.

In Western society, it is common for a man to have mistresses and/or multiple extra-marital affairs, in which case, the woman leads a disgraceful, unprotected life. The same society, however, cannot accept a man having more than one wife, in which women retain their honourable, dignified position in society and lead a protected life.

Thus the only two options before a woman who cannot find a husband is to marry a married man or to become public property. Islam prefers giving women the honourable position by permitting the first option and disallowing the second.

There are several other reasons, why Islam has permitted limited polygyny, but it is mainly to protect the modesty of women.

POLYANDRY

Question:

If a man is allowed to have more than one wife, then why does Islam prohibit a woman from having more than one husband?

Answer:

A lot of people, including some Muslims, question the logic of allowing Muslim men to have more than one spouse while denying the same ‘right’ to women.

Let me first state emphatically, that the foundation of an Islamic society is justice and equity. Allah has created men and women as equal, but with different capabilities and different responsibilities. Men and women are different, physiologically and psychologically. Their roles and responsibilities are different. Men and women are equal in Islam, but not identical.

Surah Nisa’ Chapter 4 verses 22 to 24 gives the list of women with who you can not marry and it is further mentions in Surah Nisa’ Chapter 4 verse 24 "Also (prohibited are) women already married"

The following points enumerate the reasons why polyandry is prohibited in Islam:


1. If a man has more than one wife, the parents of the children born of such marriages can easily be identified. The father as well as the mother can easily be identified. In case of a woman marrying more than one husband, only the mother of the children born of such marriages will be identified and not the father. Islam gives tremendous importance to the identification of both parents, mother and father. Psychologists tell us that children who do not know their parents, especially their father undergo severe mental trauma and disturbances. Often they have an unhappy childhood. It is for this reason that the children of prostitutes do not have a healthy childhood. If a child born of such wedlock is admitted in school, and when the mother is asked the name of the father, she would have to give two or more names! I am aware that recent advances in science have made it possible for both the mother and father to be identified with the help of genetic testing. Thus this point which was applicable for the past may not be applicable for the present.


2. Man is more polygamous by nature as compared to a woman.


3. Biologically, it is easier for a man to perform his duties as a husband despite having several wives. A woman, in a similar position, having several husbands, will not find it possible to perform her duties as a wife. A woman undergoes several psychological and behavioral changes due to different phases of the menstrual cycle.


4. A woman who has more than one husband will have several sexual partners at the same time and has a high chance of acquiring venereal or sexually transmitted diseases which can also be transmitted back to her husband even if all of them have no extra-marital sex. This is not the case in a man having more than one wife, and none of them having extra-marital sex.


The above reasons are those that one can easily identify. There are probably many more reasons why Allah, in His Infinite Wisdom, has prohibited polyandry
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this is what zakir naik says :)
for more detail referred to zakir naik Books available Here
 
Peace to all and salam to Hunain...

I think u have just re-post what i've posted earlier. It's OK, since i think someone is being an opportunist in this thread...trying to express their blind hatred towards our beloved Deen and provoke squabbles. Hopefully your latest post will help the egoistic persona to consider re-reading the whole text with rational judgement....anyway i really appreciate your DL link from last few your post...i have dl all the files but haven't got the time to watch it all, Thanx
Salam.:cool:
 
Nahiz

It's OK, since i think someone is being an opportunist in this thread...trying to express their blind hatred towards our beloved Deen and provoke squabbles. Hopefully your latest post will help the egoistic persona to consider re-reading the whole text with rational judgement....

There is nothing Blind in what I say, nor is it hateful. And nor is it opportunist. The young lady that started this thread was after some answers and you have done nothing more than use it as a platform to promote muslim dogma. As is so often the case when challenged by valid unbiased opinions of a rational non-secular viewpoint there is this resort to name calling. You think the only rational viewpoint is your own. Well its not and your attempts to dismiss it as such shows precisely the regard that many of your faith have for the opinions of free thinkers. I do not hate Islam as a faith but I do despise it as the political tool it has, in so many respects, become. If you dont see that as a rational opinion then, my human brother, you have no respect for me.
 
I don't see the wrong in using Islam as an ethical system for the family but it sounds so primitive when muslims claim that God commanded them to do so.

I believe in order for a family to function there needs to be a strong leader figure such as the man of the house. The biggest reason why families in the West have such high divorce rates is because there is no order. It is a man's natural right to be leader of the house, anyone that has studied anthropology would know this. It doesn't mean men can abuse their wives, or hit them in fact I think the man should value his wife's opinion as much has his own but there in order to have a stable family men must be leaders and wives may have to submit every now and then. It doesn't mean a woman shouldn't have the right to vote or anything like that. A woman should have the right to participate and vote in government but in the family the man should be the leader of the house.

You don't need a God do tell you that. Many women know this by default. This is why their can't be any laws regarding what a woman should do because if it is in her nature to submit she will. If not she won't. At the same time there shouldn't be so much propaganda spewing showing that women should go out and have a career or the opposite.

Anyways my point is that abrahamic religions force people to do the right thing but in the end it is up to us to the right thing. What is really sad is that Islam as an theorcracy may rise soon and freedom may seize to exists. Islam is a religion but as it rises it is turning into a political ideology. This is not good.
 
It seems there are some passions that could be a little better tempered on this thread - please let us refrain from using outright derogatory terms for any religion, thanks.
 
I, Brian

It would be nice if you could also suggest the copy-pasting to be shorter (I'm not saying I want it forbidden), as it is annoying to scroll down such long pages until we get to last lines which are the only ones we read anyway. Thank you.
 
i second the comment about long pastings. also, an argument like "please download and read this book before you answer" seems like kind of a tactic to avoid discussion to me. if you can't make your point succinctly, it's probably not a very good point.

from a jewish PoV, obviously we too maintain that G!D Is beyond gender, as with all adjectives and human characteristics. where G!D is referred to in the bible (at least in the jewish TaNa"Kh) as having anthropomorphic characteristics, such as a "hand", this is explicitly understood to be *our* understanding - language which *we* need to illustrate something which cannot be translated into human experience. in the mystical tradition, much of the imagery is sexual in nature, partly to allude to the impossiblity of conveying such concepts in human language. you might as well try to describe art to the blind or music to the deaf, no offence intended if anybody here suffers in either area. the tools utlilised simply aren't adequate to the task.

confusing G!D with gender is, of course, very common. and confusing gender and G!D with religion is yet another matter entirely. i liked the car/driver analogy - because someone drives a car badly or dangerously, it doesn't mean it's a bad car. i think the issue is when we have sacred texts being interpreted as supporting unpleasant treatment of one gender by the other.

to deal with the gendered-language issue first, there are many terms in judaism at least which refer to feminine characteristics (or at least, feminine to our way of thinking, not G!D's) of the Divine. names such as Ha-Rachaman (the All-Merciful), which relates to the word for womb, rechem or E-L Sha-Da-Y, which relates to the word for breasts, shadaim. there are even gender-neutral phrases such as Ha-Maqom, "the Place". and then there's the Shekhinah, the Divine Presence, also generally understood to be feminine on some level. nonetheless, like the word "Elokim" (the "k" should be an "h", but i don't want people sounding out the Name) which is a plural, but doesn't indicate plurality, all this is still only our human need to assign gender and number, none of which G!D needs.

also, don't think that G!D is only referred to in the masculine liturgically - certainly my prayer book, which is as traditional as it gets, uses feminine endings and adjectives; although this is generally restricted to sephardic (non-european) traditions.

treatment of women in judaism is a different matter of course; some people think it's sexist, some people think it's empowered (such as the right a woman has to divorce her husband for being sexually unsatisfactory) - generally (although by no means always) the objections are grounded in a lack of knowledge of jewish religious law or a superficial understanding of the texts. i suggest, for an example of how we approach a tough gender topic, your taking a look at my responses to the questions in the following thread: http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3592

i will say one general thing about the relationship of the sexes - the phrase "helpmeet" used in the creation of eve in the genesis account does not do justice to the original hebrew phrase, 'ezer kenegdo, which literally means "a help against him/to oppose him". that, if you ask me, neatly encapsulates much of the paradoxical understanding of the relationship between the sexes envisaged by the Torah. otherwise, the "woman of worth", from proverbs (or "mishlei" as we call it) is a pretty darn impressive paradigm; skilled in both tacit and explicit occupations, organised, a great manager and not *once* does it mention how pretty she is - in fact that "beauty is false".

if you want to make specific criticisms, please, go ahead and make them, but be sure to base them either on something we say in a text, or something we do in practice, then we can go through it properly. otherwise, it's just vague generalised accusations.

b'shalom

bananabrain
 
First of all I'd like to thank everybody for taking the time to reply to my question. Perhaps it is an ethical question as someone suggested, it's just spiritual for me because the male domination of christianity turns me away from it.

In reading some of the responses (I've been busy lately and haven't had time to get to them all) it leads me to believe that it is the interpretation of the word of God by men, who were the dominant gender at the time of the birth of Christianity as they are now (though I hope that someday soon things will truly be equal), that puts a masculine face to God not God himself/herself/itself.

I must say that it has been my experience that women can be better advisors/guides than men in some cases. Honestly I've never felt it was right to generalize, in chosing a protector or guide or provider I'd have to choose on an individual basis. I know I'd rather have my best-friend, a female, at my side to protect me than my own fiance, a male, because I believe her will to be stronger but again that's a very individual choice.
 
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