Peace to all....i know this post may be out of topic but i feel there's a need to rectify and clear the mess
There is no lack of understanding. In the west we are born free and are not indoctrinated from birth. Thus we can see Islam a good step back from where you can.
No lack of understanding you assume?!.... and yet you have the guts to say that Islam is a "good step back"?!? if you were really to have that "understanding" notion, i don't think you might have said something like that... I got 6 words for you "Talk the Talk, Walk the Walk"....And dont give me that "in the west we are born free and not indoctrinated..." expression...Did you mean indoctrinated as in religious and moral values?! I don't think most westerners will agree with you. I'am very sure most western family still stress on religous and good moral values at a young age. And don't tell me you're not one of them. And i believe religious ceremony welcoming newborns are still practiced there. Here in the east we are pretty much the same. Indoctrined?!..yes,absolutely. We are indoctrinated to realize the dangers of the false belief, materialism especially. Don't let the things you see on tele be your basis to judge the status of our newborn. It is oftenly exaggerated.
The difference between a nun and a muslim woman is that the nun makes that choice of her own free will. The society in which she lives will not shun, beat, abuse or even murder her if she choses another path. I come from the UK, the city of Edinburgh with a large ethnic muslim population. The way the men behave is very different to the way the women behave. You might state that its equal but in practice, IN REALITY, it is anything but. I have also travelled widely, to Morrocco, Tunisia, Egypt, India and Pakistan. I do not hold my views from lack of understanding and to me it is not possible to accept any statement that muslim woman enjoy equality in any sense of the word. And thats the case in my own country and every other I have visited. You ask me to re-read what you post, I dont have to. Reading it once I can already see it follows the same pattern of rational perseuasion that any Islamic, or for that matter any religeous evangelism, attempts to use. And like all the others when you start looking at the points one by one and compare them with reality it crumbles into dust.
Do you think most Muslim women wear the hijab not because by their own will but because they are forced to... Or maybe you forgot to consider that in some places in this world it's already been a culture for the women to wear the hijab just like the western women wore whatever they wear everyday. How ignorant could you be? Do you know that the women of some part in this world has been wearing the traditional hijab dress for thousands of years long before the Scotssman wear skirts
.... Have you ever considered that fact before?
You speak as if there is a "Do as told or die" attitude in Islam. You are saying that all the explanation by Dr.Zakir Naik is a rational persuasion...Yes it is a persuasion as in a positive advice but
never he mentioned enforcement of the wearing of Hijab. There is no law in Islam that permits anybody to punish any Muslim women who doesn't wear Hijab. The least anyone can do is to give advice. That's it...simple as that. And don't take the Taliban or any extremist group as manifestation of Islam. Again i think you should consider re-reading...this time with good intentions and rational judgement.
There I go again? I have not the right to challenge what I see to be 'fallacious'??? Many many a muslim would openly call me an infidel and worthy only of execution because I am neither muslim nor of any of the Abrahamic sects, not a Dhimmi but a lowly Kafir. Dhimmi itself is a gross discrimination, Kafir is fascist. I dislike Islam for what reason do you think?
Never i say u don't have the right to challenge, u do have that right and everybody does, but not in a misleading manner, making wild accusations, baseless conjecture, as in "painting with a broad brush", as in Fallacious.
No law in Islam that says a Muslim can Kill a Kafir with no reason. In a hadith Qudsi God said:"whoever hurts a kafir(Dhimmi), then i will be his enemy on the day of judgement".
Dhimmis are "protected people" who lives in an Islamic state and who does not wage war(in any sense) against the Muslims. A Harbi is the type of Kafir who Muslims must fight for they wage war against Muslims.The term dhimmi is neither discrimination nor fascism like what you think....but it is more to a recognition to these group of people that they are peace lovers and they want nothing more but to live in peace side by side with the Muslims, though they practice different faiths. 30% of my country's population are Dhimmis, and they never had any problems with that name. Thanx to God we live in peace since the day we live together and no serious clashes happened since 1969 (which is more to racism not religious). As for you, what do you know about all this?...Making vague self assumptions i presume.
Much of what muslims are to be found quoting are not even from the Koran but interpretations, Hadiths, of meaning made sometimes 4-500 years after the death of Muhamad. The Koran itself springs from a single text written long after his death. The leader who sanctioned this to be the 'official' Koran sent his people out to destroy any conflicting versions of what Muhamad has supposed to have said. Nowhere in any of the history regarding the sources of the Koran do I see anything but the development of a political tool to subdue free will in the population.
Maybe you need to read the fact of how the Holy Quran was recorded.The Quran was recorded during the life of Prophet Muhammad Peace Be Upon Him...not after his death. In the early years of Islam it was recorded on goat skin, bones, leaves and any types of media at that time.The Quran was revealed to Prophet Muhammad PBUH in 22 years,2 months and 22 days. The first Quran in the form of a book was produced after the Prophets' death. The Quran didn't spring out from a single text after Muhammad's death like what you said above.You misunderstood why the "leader" you mentioned above who is the 3rd caliph, Usman ibn Affan, destroyed the "conflicting" QUrans. When Islam has broaden its' wing up to Azerbaijan, there was a major problem in reading the Quran in terms of pronounciation.This is due to their weakness in mastering the Arabic written text. The locals have re-written the Quran to suit their local tongue and dialects.This indirectly could have changed the meaning of some words thus altering the message. To prevent this situation from worsening, Caliph Usman ordered his men to come up with an enhancement to the Arabic writings so that there will be a standard way of pronouncing each and every word in th Quran.They came up with the "diacriticals" which is an enhancement to the Arabic text in the Quran so that any reader can read the Quran with a standard pronounciation. The diacriticals enhancements are made to suit the dialects of the Quraisy Arab Tribe which is the tribe of Prophet Muhammad's family. So when i read one verse from the Quran that i have today, i would be reading and pronouncing it just the same as how Prophet Muhammad PBUH have uttered it 1400 years ago. When the first copy of the Quran with diacriticals has completed, it was sent to all major cities under the Muslims rule at that time. So any copies of Quran which has been re-written according to local dialects are ordered to be burned.
Another note (and FYI) is that Muslims have a thing about destroying old Qurans… Out of respect to the text and if for any reason they need to get rid of a copy of the Quran (cuz it’s torn, worn out, whatever), they don’t just through it in trash… They usually burn it or dig into the earth and bury it or so… - Taken from Iyad's post
So there was never an "official" or "conflicting" Quran like what you think.
Go to this thread "The First Quran" you can get more info--->
http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3933&page=1&pp=15
Your knowledge is only partial on the history of Quran and you're making curtailed statements affixed with false gesture. Why? I'am not saying that my knowledge is better than yours but at least i don't make statements about sumthing which i don't know and blemish the image of other religions...That is quite indecent don't you think?
Islam does not separate politics and religeon and this is a fundamental point. Islam is a political tool, very similair to what the catholic church employed in Europe for so long. Islam is a regression to the dark ages in my opinion and until such times that it rids itself of its many discriminatory and fascist ideas I will continue to call it what it is. If that offends you then perhaps you should take a look at the history of religeous wars in Europe and understand that we europeans have been there, seen it , done it and rejected it. The religeons have been removed from politics and deal now with what they should- faith, hope and charity.
As i told earlier,Islam is a way of life, not just a religion. It has guidlines to every essential aspects of human sociology; marriage,family ties,business & trading,law, including politic. If one was a Muslim he/she is very much encouraged to practice what Islam has thought. I admit that some group of Muslims did use it as a political tool for their own personal benefit. As a Muslim I totally disagree on it. Things like this also happens in my country and any other part of this world...not only among Muslims.Islam as a religion and a way of life is not to be put on trial here but the one who should be is the greedy, oppressive, tyrant leaders themselves as an individual.
You speak about the bad side of what the catholic church had done to Europe but do you know that Christianity has brought light to the Europeans. Before Christianity, Europe was savaged by barbarians and pagan beliefs which most likely resort to violence in anything. Women are treated not more than sex objects. It's only sometime in the middle ages that the churches started to act like an "overpowering" mother. But when we see the big picture, Christianity brought more Good than bad to Europe. Without Christianity Europe wouldn't like what it is today.
Christianity is not to be blame for all the religious war occured in Europe but in my opinion it is the devilish heart in the leaders of that time who fire it up.
In your opinion Islam is a regression from the dark ages. But history didn't have any proove of that. During the reign of the 2nd Caliph, Umar al-Khattab, The Persians and Byzantine was overpowered. At that time Islam was not even half a century old. The Muslims also pionered many fields of studies; astronomy,anthropology,chemistry,maths etc etc...names like Ibn Sina(avicennia), Mimar Sinan, Al-khwarizmi, Ullubegh are some of the well known. With all these well-known facts... tell me how did you get to conclude that Islam was a regression from the dark ages? Maybe you have a lot of "unknown" facts hidden from 1.2 Billion Muslims today...please share with us.
And if you think I discriminate against Islam you are wrong I will stand up and attempt to be heard wherever I see discrimination, bigotry, fascism or any of their brothers. My God is not a book it is LIFE itself. When Islam recognises that we are all created equal and die equal and stops trying to pretend it's the word of God then I will have no issue with it. Islam does not tolerate criticism, your 'enlightened' brothers issue fatwahs on those who speak out against it. As long as they behave this way there will be no end to western views.
What is this labelling all about. Have i offend or question your faith in my previous post. Have i associate your faith, whatever your faith is with facism, bigotry and everything you mentioned above. Let me ask you...if someone criticise the fundamentals of your faith what would you do? do you just keep quiet and do nothing? You defend your stance isn't it. why?...because it is your right to defend and it is the right thing to do. That is what my enlightened brothers are doing. They are doing the right thing for their beloved religions' sake. Don't tell me you're not going to defend your "LIFE" whatever it is that you meant, if someone calls it a facism,bigotary, discrimination or any other of its' brothers.
Peace
