Is human intelligence the result of Alien intervention?

[MagnetMan]

Or Random evolutionary event? Or Divine Design?
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Random event is the accepted scientific theory and I can buy into that – but only up to a point. I believe that the current Universe began in a singularity as the result of the compression of a previous Universe. This initiated the Big Bang some 20 billion years ago. I can see how, some seventeen billion years later. a chance mix of amino acids in a primeval soup on an environmentally benign planet situated on the edge of a spiral galaxy could randomly produce a protein recipe that gradually evolved into cellular growth and eventually organic life. If human intelligence had remained on the same basic level as all other organic life – with procreation and endless consumption the be-all and end-all of existence, I would not question random event. But - somewhere between 6 and 3 million years ago, something extra-sensory happened to a single specie among 2 billion others. That happening produced an intelligence that was self-aware, able to be an independent witness to the rest of Nature. Why? Why would Nature produce a supernatural being with the potential to exterminate all Her other creations? Such an awesome cosmic event, with such infinite implications, cannot simply be analytically explained away by another random event, due to environmental variation or some such.. I am sorry, much as I revere science, that explanation leaves me curiously unsatisfied. I can buy random event as a small ingredient in evolution, mainly because it rids us of a boringly predictable outcome via the surprises it produces – but pure randomness could only produce random moments of clarity and mainly chaos, not the ordered universe I see.



This cosmic puzzle has made many of us take a serious look to Alien intervention, Personally I have ruled out Aliens as the origin of our supernatural intelligence – because even if they did intervene, that does not answer the root question. If aliens had anything to do with it, then how did they come by their own intelligence?



So I am left with Divine Design. I have been wrestling with that one ever since I was nine years old. Over the years I have come up with a private theory on God and why I think he was the culprit that had us in mind all along. That theory has nothing in common with any mythology or any religion. I’d like to bounce it against “intelligent” minds. Maybe some of you have your own origination explanations. Jokes are okay – the tarot shows an aspect of God as a fool – especially when it comes into prying into the unknowable - but make sure yours are hilariously “intelligent”.




​

 

[wil]

I read an interesting item once about a Catholic Priest who was questioned about the Anunaki, and the lizard brain/frontal lobe discussions.

He indicated that it is perfectly possible that the garden of eden was on another planet...

 

[sara[h]ng]

I'm going to play devil's advocate here.

Why couldn't one species, out of a billion, developing our type of intelligence, be due to random chance? How is it any more unlikely than any of the other things you stated?

Sarah

 

[Quahom1]

I'm going to play devil's advocate here.

Why couldn't one species, out of a billion, developing our type of intelligence, be due to random chance? How is it any more unlikely than any of the other things you stated?

Sarah

Hate to answer your question with a question, but...how can a genome be perfect every time? In other words, why did it stick, given the randomness that should occur? If you answer, a pattern developed, then I ask how? And why did it settle in, when we know the universe is inclined to entropy?

just a thought

v/r

Q

 

[sara[h]ng]

I'm no sure I get what you mean. First of all, no genome is perfect or even close to.

Are you saying that due to the randomness of the universe, it isn't likely/possible that our intelligence could have reached the level that it has?

Sarah

 

[Quahom1]

I'm no sure I get what you mean. First of all, no genome is perfect or even close to.

Are you saying that due to the randomness of the universe, it isn't likely/possible that our intelligence could have reached the level that it has?

Sarah

Perfect enough to continue our "species" yes, that is what I am saying. Based on the DNA sequences that (the billions of them), must be "switched on or off", in just the right manner, there wouldn't be life here, let alone intelligence of any kind. Yes, that is what I am saying as well.

Throwing dice is chance. If you are a gambling person, I wouldn't take a bet on throwing life, not in an infinite chances (based on what I know about our make up at the genetic level, let alone a sentient intelligence developing from that life).

v/r

Q

 

[taijasi]

Agreeing with Q ... I think that the statement "God does not play dice" is Einstein's simple way of saying, Evolution is God's Plan. It's guided, God is (perhaps, if not obviously) intimately involved ... and frankly, there's no such thing as random!

That said, I agree with your Devil's Advocate position regarding the initial post, sara[h]ng. As a hylozoist, believing that every single atom of Cosmos (does anyone have a clue how many that is? ) is literally ensouled by the Divine ... I can't really fathom the notion of pure, reductivist-empirical, materialistic science accounting for the monkey, the typewriter, inertia, or even Space to begin with! lol I don't think Einstein thought this way, either.

So if aliens did indeed intervene in our development, maybe kinda like the nextdoor neighbor watering the garden while you're outta town ... then what of it? Why is that the least bit difficult to fathom? Of course they've been involved, it's part of their civic duty. What goes around, comes around. They had lots of help, now they give it. We're receiving (from above, as well as from "across") ... and soon enough, it will be our responsibility to return the favor. Tit for tat, except the Joy is in the giving - and right now, we need it!

Does such thinking diminish the individuality, purpose, or spiritual standing of Humanity? I can hardly see how, although I guess this is the wrong thread to ask that question on. At any rate, I am of the opinion that the objective, scientific evidence abounds for "alien intervention" (a doubly loaded phrase, if you think about it) ... in the development of both our material form(s), as well as our Intellect. I am NOT a UFO nut/kook/freak or whatever, but if you look up, and see the Pleiades ... there's one piece of evidence (which science will soon enough be able to verify).

Another? Stuff that's been on the planet since Roswell, including technology aboard such craft which would incontrovertibly prove alien intervention for millions of years. Ya think that stuff's gonna hit Time Magazine any time soon? lol Funny thing. It already has.

taijasi

 

[iBrian]

The argument that says intelligence must have formed on another planet, begs the question of where it came from before then, and so on.

Sort of like asking "Who made God".

 

[MagnetMan]

The argument that says intelligence must have formed on another planet, begs the question of where it came from before then, and so on.

Sort of like asking "Who made God".

Almost precisely what I said when I posted this topic. Glad to talk to the person who created this necessary forum.

 

[wil]

The argument that says intelligence must have formed on another planet, begs the question of where it came from before then, and so on. Sort of like asking "Who made God".

Why? No one is implying just because life on earth comes from another planet that G-d wasn't involved there...or that it didn't start there millenium before it formed here...

Seems like this was not an argument but a discusssion, a contemplation...what is the interest in ending it?

 

[taijasi]

Short answer ... is that I take it as a given (since I don't think there's any way I can prove it or demonstrate it, either for myself, or for anyone else) - that "God" is indeed responsible for all matter/energy, as well as every possible permutation thereof (if indirectly). As a pantheist, panentheist, or hylozoist, I figure that on the other side of the original Singularity ... is "God," the Unmanifest (the Tao that cannot be named). All of evolution proceed on "this side" of the singularity, thanks to a fragment of the very Beingness of "God" (Having pervaded the entire Universe with a fragment of myself, I remain," goes the Upanishad). And that includes the Divine Aspects Will, Love-Wisdom, and Spiritual Intelligence.

And such aspects, and also Divine attributes, also find their way - in due proportion, early on, into every single thing that gets created. There are certainly a prototypical, or original Trinity/Trimurti, Septenate, etc. ... yet such order is filled by actual individuals (of vast, or stupendous, Cosmic stature) ... in a great Chain of Being - which eventually reaches our little Solar System, Seven Sacred Planets, and non-sacred planets (including Mars, and Earth). Evolution upon each planet gets its largest "push" and regular, ongoing cooperation from other planetary schemes within its own system, as well from immediately neighboring systems, perhaps. But the notion of visitors from say, a couple hundred light years away (still quite close in our vast galaxy), seems quite plausible. Did they originate Intelligence upon our planet. No, not as such. It was already here, latent within that Vast Being "in Whom we Live, and move, and have our Being." But perhaps the agency of these Neighbors was just what was necessary to help fan the spark into a flame.

Esoteric Teachings actually indicate that this is precisely what occurred, save that it wasn't another solar system - it was Venus. And it was 18 million years ago, though the awakening (and not an "implanting") occurred only gradually. Still, it was a boost, and not a seeding, per se. All potential is latent, just a question of how deep.

... some far out thoughts (though not originally my own), 'cause I'm a far out dude.

cheers,

andrew

 

[Quahom1]

Agreeing with Q ... I think that the statement "God does not play dice" is Einstein's simple way of saying, Evolution is God's Plan. It's guided, God is (perhaps, if not obviously) intimately involved ... and frankly, there's no such thing as random!

That said, I agree with your Devil's Advocate position regarding the initial post, sara[h]ng. As a hylozoist, believing that every single atom of Cosmos (does anyone have a clue how many that is? ) is literally ensouled by the Divine ... I can't really fathom the notion of pure, reductivist-empirical, materialistic science accounting for the monkey, the typewriter, inertia, or even Space to begin with! lol I don't think Einstein thought this way, either.

So if aliens did indeed intervene in our development, maybe kinda like the nextdoor neighbor watering the garden while you're outta town ... then what of it? Why is that the least bit difficult to fathom? Of course they've been involved, it's part of their civic duty. What goes around, comes around. They had lots of help, now they give it. We're receiving (from above, as well as from "across") ... and soon enough, it will be our responsibility to return the favor. Tit for tat, except the Joy is in the giving - and right now, we need it!

Does such thinking diminish the individuality, purpose, or spiritual standing of Humanity? I can hardly see how, although I guess this is the wrong thread to ask that question on. At any rate, I am of the opinion that the objective, scientific evidence abounds for "alien intervention" (a doubly loaded phrase, if you think about it) ... in the development of both our material form(s), as well as our Intellect. I am NOT a UFO nut/kook/freak or whatever, but if you look up, and see the Pleiades ... there's one piece of evidence (which science will soon enough be able to verify).

Another? Stuff that's been on the planet since Roswell, including technology aboard such craft which would incontrovertibly prove alien intervention for millions of years. Ya think that stuff's gonna hit Time Magazine any time soon? lol Funny thing. It already has.

taijasi

Actually our scriptures answer this question unequivically yes, our intelligence is the result of 'alien intervention', if one thinks about it. And in fact, science tends to consider this theory in a positive light as well. One set of writings talks about beings other than man, deciding to make man, while another set of books describe the possiblity of amino acids falling planet side into primordial soup to start the beginnings of our eventuality.

In both cases the eventual development of man originated from "off world" influences...

v/r

Q

 

[MagnetMan]

Actually our scriptures answer this question unequivically yes, our intelligence is the result of 'alien intervention', if one thinks about it. And in fact, science tends to consider this theory in a positive light as well. One set of writings talks about beings other than man, deciding to make man, while another set of books describe the possiblity of amino acids falling planet side into primordial soup to start the beginnings of our eventuality.

In both cases the eventual development of man originated from "off world" influences...

This may all only be superficially true. If we were created by aliens who were created by aliens, where does it that line of argument end? Obviously back to random chemical event or by design, no matter which star system we are talking about or how far back in time you wish to go. l dismissed random event, mainly because I cannot see how it addresses the question of self consciousness - or spirit if you want to use a loaded word. The idea of a spiritless existence is hardly worth contemplating over.

 

[Quahom1]

This may all only be superficially true. If we were created by aliens who were created by aliens, where does it that line of argument end? Obviously back to random chemical event or by design, no matter which star system we are talking about or how far back in time you wish to go. l dismissed random event, mainly because I cannot see how it addresses the question of self consciousness - or spirit if you want to use a loaded word. The idea of a spiritless existence is hardly worth contemplating over.

I by no means implied or stated ourselves as being not of self consciousness or of lacking a spirit, nor do I think this is even remotely a possibility.

I simply pointed out that there are two trains of thought on how we were physically "stitched together".

Nor, my friend do I consider wanting the question answered of how we came to be, superficial. In fact it is one of the ultimate questions of the universe.

The very idea that "life" defies the natural order of things "Entropy", is solid evidence that there is something much greater than we allow for, holding things together (including us). Hence I think it natural that we would want to know "what" that something is, and "why" it is.

And I think is natural for us to want to discover the solid reasons, rather than simply accepting things on "faith". Man, is born of curiosity.

my "sober" thoughts

v/r

Q

 

[MagnetMan]

Nor, my friend do I consider wanting the question answered of how we came to be, superficial. In fact it is one of the ultimate questions of the universe.

I think we are at cross perposes on this qurestion about aliens. I meant that if humans are the result of "alien intervention" (which I do not believe myself) that answer in itself is superficiial - for it does not address who created the aliens I never suggested that you had no concern for the ultimate question. For me it is no longer a question. Everything in existence gives me a satisfactory answer. The Sun is an expression of God and so are you and I and every other atomic association in the cosmos. My argument is with those who refuse to acknowledge this Universal Consciousness, because of an artificial empirical restriction that does allow what one "feels" to be admitted as credible evidence - no matter how certain that feeling is.

 

[taijasi]

Hmmm ... well I have a pretty good feeling, that whether terrestrial or extra-terrestrial, not simply Intelligence, but all sentient life, and in fact, every particle in Cosmos ... is Divine. Not even just "from" the Divine ... for that becomes too handily Deistic. Nor completely embodying the Divine, for perhaps that is true to one who has transcended all dualities, but for those of us discussing the evolution of intelligence, and the contributions of other Humanities ... there is still duality.

But I not believe for a second ... that some vague, inchoate, mysterious primordial soup gave rise to life upon this, or any other planet, and crept its way along on all fours, and perhaps even began to respond to its surroundings, animalistically & in utter ignorance - until somehow, bang-zap-zoom, there came Intellect! Evolution may indeed occur by fits & starts, but viewed over the vast aeons, it is gradual, cyclical, and a spiral.

An event that is heralded in the Wisdom Teachings as the Dawn of Mind upon this planet, is spoken of as transpiring 18 million years ago with the advent of the Venusian Lords of the Flame, to which I've already alluded. Yet their contribution was to fan the spark, as it were, into a Flame. This bursting forth of Mind (and self-consciousness) is therefore regarded as a service, yet not a gift as such. The very faculty, of Intellect (or Manas, mind) ... is regarded by some as spiritually present within our very nature! Certainly it's source is not the physical body, although Descartes correctly identified the pineal gland as the seat of the Soul. Also of importance is the pituitary body, and esoterically the life-thread (sutra-atma, or sutratma) is located within the heart. [The thread of consciousness, or antahkarana, would be associated with the brain.]

The development of an increasingly-larger cranium, and growth of the neocortex, are certainly a response to the evolution of Mind, or its parallel ... but I am a believer in an evolution that is intimately guided by beings of vast spiritual stature, Love, & Intelligence ... always present upon our planet. Not a single atom is without their vitalization, and not a single lifeform is created without their agency. Science does not yet recognized the Devas, and even esoteric students sometimes think of them as isolated Archangels only. But if they ensoul all forms, then this is a mistaken notion. Every planet, every lifeform, and every atom - has its ensouling agents, and in the case of the human, these are multiple. Probably likewise, on other planets. And why not an ongoing interaction, with an important push coming from time to time, when needed?

This just seems like so much more a sober, sensible & sane point of view than the extreme reactionary viewpoint that often surrounds the idea of "alien intervention" and "genetic mutation" and so forth. If there's anything or anyone we should be concerned about, and afraid of - in these glorious days of genetic engineering & pet cloning & stem cell research ... it's us!

andrew

 

[MagnetMan]

The very faculty, of Intellect (or Manas, mind) ... is regarded by some as spiritually present within our very nature! Certainly it's source is not the physical body, although Descartes correctly identified the pineal gland as the seat of the Soul. Also of importance is the pituitary body, and esoterically the life-thread (sutra-atma, or sutratma) is located within the heart. [The thread of consciousness, or antahkarana, would be associated with the brain....

Nice to find somebody almost pecisely on the same wave length. Reading behind your lines it may be that we have a few important points of potential difference. If that is indeed so, it would be nice to air them and see if we can find some meeting ground in between.
Shankara stated that all physical manifestations are 'maya' basically illusional ...all that truly exists is spiritual. Science of course has precisely the opposit view. I have always instinctively felt that both are looking at opposit sides of the same coin. Quntum theory supports the seeming duality of atomic reactions - of being both particle and wave at the same time, with the fascinating qualification that this split view is dependant on the consciousness of the exprimenter. Heisenbeg states that any definate determination is not possible - that only probabilities exist. Tantric Yoga practioners expreience consciousness as kundilini energy, which enters the body via oxygenation (ma-na, Divine Breath) and is kinetically stored at the base of the spine in the mulahadara chakra. Consciousness is basically stirred (attracted) by sensual ideation and, if properly focused, rises up shashuma, passing through and extracting the flavor of each succeeding chakra to finally arrive in the shasrara chakra as an ecstatic realization of the omnicient nature (sexual/courageous/conscientious/loving/ visionary/intellectual) Consciousness of the Divine. During tantric practices I have shared in and can confirm the same experience. My personal conclusion is that without the creation of an organic body and the consequent evolution of a high state of organic intelligence, the Divine could not experience all the flavors of orgasmic excitement.

 

[Quahom1]

I think we are at cross perposes on this qurestion about aliens. I meant that if humans are the result of "alien intervention" (which I do not believe myself) that answer in itself is superficiial - for it does not address who created the aliens I never suggested that you had no concern for the ultimate question. For me it is no longer a question. Everything in existence gives me a satisfactory answer. The Sun is an expression of God and so are you and I and every other atomic association in the cosmos. My argument is with those who refuse to acknowledge this Universal Consciousness, because of an artificial empirical restriction that does allow what one "feels" to be admitted as credible evidence - no matter how certain that feeling is.

Actually no, we are not. "Aliens" from my perspective are that which is not Human. God, Divine intervention, Intelligent design coupled with evolutionary processes is "alien" to us (or was up to recent times). We didn't invent genetic research for example. We discovered the genome Clearly a work of genius and complexity still so far beyond our ken, we are in kindergarten, that came from some intelligence above and beyond our greatest minds combined.

We both know that time is a relative concept so that no longer becomes an issue. We know that space is a relative concept intrinsically tied in with time, therefore that no longer is an issue. We know that time and space affect (if not create), the energetic forces of gravity (assisted by mass which is a low frequency of energy), so that no longer is an issue.

Example: the Earth produces diamond over thousands of years under tremendous pressures, yet there are flaws in the result. We can make a diamond in a day, and make it flawless. We didn't invent the thing, we merely discovered how it was made, and tweaked on the process. However, the price we pay is that because we made it so fast, it yellows with time. Why? because we rushed the process of carbon crystalizing into diamond.

Evolution is the same way. Rush the time, and the "perfect copy" isn't so perfect. We rush because we want to see results in our life time, which is far shorter than the "genius" that designed the whole of our existence to begin with.

Where am I going with all this? Man is too busy trying to become God, that he fails to see that he is creating a flawed concept of God. So instead of becoming God, he becomes like a god, a flawed copy. Never the less, in striving to become like God, man is alienating himself from himself. Hence man is no longer part of this natural world. And in a sense, we have become the alien intervention in our own natural development, let alone that of the world.

And it started the moment we became sentient...

my "sober" thoughts

v/r

Q

 

[wil]

Esoteric Teachings actually indicate that this is precisely what occurred, save that it wasn't another solar system - it was Venus. And it was 18 million years ago, though the awakening (and not an "implanting&quot occurred only gradually.

I believe the ram teachings put the reptillian frontal lobe influence from the anunaki also from within our solar system yet parallel universe. That our cerebelum is our modem/router to G-d, the ethers all thought, all manifestation, and that only focused thought (prayer) in the frontal lobe rather than dualistic thoughts bouncing between left and right( and wrong and good and bad) brain. ie the cerebelum can't focus on a tennis match of what ifs and doubt...but pure belief...faith...that mustard seed again...

 

[Quahom1]

I believe the ram teachings put the reptillian frontal lobe influence from the anunaki also from within our solar system yet parallel universe. That our cerebelum is our modem/router to G-d, the ethers all thought, all manifestation, and that only focused thought (prayer) in the frontal lobe rather than dualistic thoughts bouncing between left and right( and wrong and good and bad) brain. ie the cerebelum can't focus on a tennis match of what ifs and doubt...but pure belief...faith...that mustard seed again...

If stupidity were an elevation to achieve, some of us would win the Gold hands down (not meant for you Wil). The original idea was is there some merit to the potential of Humans being modified by outside forces to achieve the intelligence we seem to have.

Not if there are martians out there...

Q