Thomas said:
Path-of_One spoke about the use of psychotropics in certain traditional cultures. Again, I regard this as a psychic or psychodynamic process, and not a spiritual one in the sense that a Christian would understand it.
This is not a criticism of culture, but simply an acknowledgement of difference. The Native American, for example, would undergo the sweat lodge as a rite of passage, some employing narcotics, some not. The ensuing experience would be told to the Peace or Medicine Chief, who would paint a symbolic portrayal upon a shield. This shield, the equivalent of a European heraldic device, becomes then not a weapon of defence but rather an emblem of the individual's path, vocation, destiny - within the content of the Great Spirit - a mirror of the inner man - but it remains, I do believe, largely a psychodynamic process, an exposure to the self, rather than an exposure to anything other-than-self.
The skill of the shaman, by the way, is to ensure that nothing 'other' intervenes whilst the subject is 'open' and utterly psychically vulnerable - this is a most dangerous task, not to be attempted lightly, and I hold all shamen in the highest regard for their skill and courage in a very real world...
Thomas, I respect that your opinion and assessment of what is going on when shamans and other traditional peoples "spirit-journey" assisted with hallucinogens is that they are delving deeper within, rather than reaching out into the spirit realm or toward God.
However, I remain firm that this is a viewpoint that is biased toward Western culture and religion, and it is not how most shamans or traditional peoples see their own experience. In many cases, shamans use hallucinogens to allow their spirit to journey to various spirit realms, notably the realm of the dead, ancestral spirits, and nature spirits. They use this to heal people, to aid the community in making decisions by predicting probable future events, to resolve conflicts, etc. It is not just about a personal journey, nor just rites of passage. Sometimes drugs are used for that purpose, but in many cases it is perceived as a gateway to another place that is real, and is outside and not within the individual.
Furthermore, each culture and shaman have their way of reaching this state of altered consciousness- some with drugs and many others without drugs, but rather through other means that yield a trance state: drumming, chanting, spinning, dancing, fasting, exposure, sleep deprivation... all these can and do yield a similar state of altered consciousness, and some produce powerful hallucinations.
From a cross-cultural, anthropological perspective, the Christian practice of fasting and exposure (see Christ's forty days in the desert) is just that particular religion's method/tool of inducing altered states. It would be aptly compared to any other way of generating the same mental state. While the technique is different, the goal is the same- it pushes the human mind beyond its ordinary limits and allows for an expansion of one's understanding.
Most scientists would say that all of it is a journey within, including the Christian experience of closer communion with God following fasting and exposure (which can and does produce hallucinations if done with enough zeal). Most religious folks from any religion would say that what they experience is real and is not an experience of their deeper self, but an experience of supernatural stuff "out there." What I cannot do, being both an anthropologist (and so dedicated to overcoming ethnocentrism) and a spiritual person (and so believing in a supernatural "out there") is to designate my own experiences as a Christian as a real connection with God and the spiritual realm, and all other peoples' experiences as simply journeys into the human psyche. It seems singularly biased. Of course, it is a bias that, as a Christian, you have a right to. It just doesn't work for me.
I don't think drugs necessarily lead one to an experience of God. I do think drugs can push people out of their ordinary state of consciousness, which
might allow them to be opened up to the spirit realm and they
may experience God. Though I don't think it is the way God intended, due to the obvious dangers (which is why shamans are rigorously trained over years under the guidance of a master), I do not limit God by saying He cannot use the experience to reveal Himself to someone.
