What is Objective Truth

Kindest Regards, China Cat!

Hmmm, if objective truth is the truth about objects, then perhaps relative truth is the truth about relatives?
 
juantoo3 said:
RubySera,



I see.

You are one of those.

Very well.

An olive branch was offered.

You declined.

Your choice.

No skin off my nose.
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Unrepentent sinners who put branches in the hands of those whom they have disrespected may well find themselves minus some skin one day. Maybe minus more than a bit of skin.
 
You're not worth the effort to respond to, you came in with a chip on your shoulder daring someone to knock it off. And then you want to sit in judgement over them?
 
juantoo3 said:
Kindest Regards, China Cat!

Hmmm, if objective truth is the truth about objects, then perhaps relative truth is the truth about relatives?
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Hmmm, yes, I believe you're right!

Chris
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
What is objective truth?

This is so easy. Objective truth is the truth of objects. Whatever an object is, of itself, is its objective truth. There!

We should really ask: what is the difference between truth in a concrete sense, and the abstract, philosophical notion of Truth? Abstract concepts are hard to drag down into the concrete world of objects and objective logic. Relative truth is an entirely different thing which has more to do with the shared perception of accurate nomenclature and grammer.

So, before we start talking about truth we should say what sphere we're referring to. No example, allegory, or parable can stand on two legs. There has to be an agreement about the parameters and limitations, where the brackets lie, so that everyone involved is looking at the same apple or orange.

In terms of God, and the idea that God posesses the ultimate, objective truth, or is Itself that Truth, I'll try to phrase the question appropriately: Is there an objective meta-Truth that permeates and informs all levels or spheres of action, intelligence, and/or consciousness from the most sublime/abstract to the most concrete/coarse? Is there something which is true on all levels, can be infinitely induced, reduced, deducted, and transposed without any degredation?

Chris
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So what is it called when we talk about telling the truth? I'm talking about stating things the way they are on the level of everyday life. Take the earlier example of my address. I can make something up and you will have no way of finding me. Or I can tell you exactly where I live and actually be there when you call. The latter statement would normally be considered a truthful statement. The verbal statement fits reality as it is lived on the everyday level. Is that relative truth or objective truth or some other kind of truth?
 
RubySera_Martin said:
So what is it called when we talk about telling the truth? I'm talking about stating things the way they are on the level of everyday life. Take the earlier example of my address. I can make something up and you will have no way of finding me. Or I can tell you exactly where I live and actually be there when you call. The latter statement would normally be considered a truthful statement. The verbal statement fits reality as it is lived on the everyday level. Is that relative truth or objective truth or some other kind of truth?
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If you tell me where you actually live that's truth. In terms of what I was proposing that would be relative truth because it relies on artifically created values like address numbers, but I can still check a map and find you, so that's truth.

I mean, let's not be dorks, everyone knows what truth is unless we start splitting hairs and try to force philosophical concepts into the mundane realm.

Chris
 
A quick read of wiki illustrates that the definition of Truth is pretty hotly debated. Here's a bit I liked:

wiki said:
William James's version of the pragmatic theory, while complex, is often summarized by his statement that "the 'true' is only the expedient in our way of thinking, just as the 'right' is only the expedient in our way of behaving."[14] By this, James meant that truth is a quality the value of which is confirmed by its effectiveness when applying concepts to actual practice (thus, "pragmatic"). John Dewey, less broadly than James but more broadly than Peirce, held that inquiry, whether scientific, technical, sociological, philosophical or cultural, is self-corrective over time if openly submitted for testing by a community of inquirers in order to clarify, justify, refine and/or refute proposed truths.[15]
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This is talking about pragmatic truth, which seems to me a subset of objective truth. Here' my definition of truth: that which can be trusted.

2 c,
luna
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
I mean, let's not be dorks, everyone knows what truth is unless we start splitting hairs and try to force philosophical concepts into the mundane realm.

Chris
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So there is philosophical concept truth and there is mundane realm truth? That answers that question but raises a whole new set of questions.

1. Exactly why would we ever want to talk about the philosophical concept truth? I mean, philosophy has to have some connection with real life even if extremely remote. I see none here. Obviously, the ancient philosophers were talking about the philosophical concept and so was Jesus. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life."

2. This statement of Jesus' has never made sense to me and it makes even less sense now. I have absolutely no idea what the philosophical concept of truth is or means or refers to.

And yes, I am a dork--though that is not a word I grew up with and I have no idea what a dork is. Actually, yes, I do if you add "ing." Dorking is the name of the hamlet closest to my one brother's farm. There you go--this whole thing ties together. Though I still don't know what philosophical concept truth is or what it might have to do with real life.
 
Hey Juantoo, where are you? There are mighty concepts being derived from your weighty posts of recent writing. One would think you would like to be part of the process.

Thanks, everyone, this clarifies a lot for me--well, except for this thing about philosophical concepts.
 
RubySera_Martin said:
So there is philosophical concept truth and there is mundane realm truth? That answers that question but raises a whole new set of questions.

1. Exactly why would we ever want to talk about the philosophical concept truth? I mean, philosophy has to have some connection with real life even if extremely remote. I see none here. Obviously, the ancient philosophers were talking about the philosophical concept and so was Jesus. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life."

2. This statement of Jesus' has never made sense to me and it makes even less sense now. I have absolutely no idea what the philosophical concept of truth is or means or refers to.

And yes, I am a dork--though that is not a word I grew up with and I have no idea what a dork is. Actually, yes, I do if you add "ing." Dorking is the name of the hamlet closest to my one brother's farm. There you go--this whole thing ties together. Though I still don't know what philosophical concept truth is or what it might have to do with real life.
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What is philosphical truth? It's an abstract concept loosley based on "pragmatic" truth that people with extra time on thier hands sit around and think about. I guess we're looking for is a really big metaphysical truth that explains everything in terms of a single, huge, organized process.

A dork is kind of like an adolescent fool.

Chris
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
What is philosphical truth? It's an abstract concept loosley based on "pragmatic" truth that people with extra time on thier hands sit around and think about. I guess we're looking for is a really big metaphysical truth that explains everything in terms of a single, huge, organized process.

A dork is kind of like an adolescent fool.

Chris
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The GUT of Metphysics, eh? I figured you for a pragmatic kind of guy.

How's the golf? My hub is working at the US Open this week! Ooops, that's a derailment. Sorry! :D

luna
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
What is philosphical truth? It's an abstract concept loosley based on "pragmatic" truth that people with extra time on thier hands sit around and think about. I guess we're looking for is a really big metaphysical truth that explains everything in terms of a single, huge, organized process.

Chris
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Okay. That fits the picture.

A dork is kind of like an adolescent fool.
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So does this. (There was supposed to be a smiling face here. I guess I don't know how to attach them.)

LATER: lol!!!!! I see the smiling face got onto the bar at the top of the post.
 
lunamoth said:
The GUT of Metphysics, eh? I figured you for a pragmatic kind of guy.

How's the golf? My hub is working at the US Open this week! Ooops, that's a derailment. Sorry! :D

luna
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He's at the Open? GRRRRRRR! No really, I'm happy for him...:) Oh, I'm still shooting low 90's. It's blow up holes. You know, taking three to get out of the bunker, trying to be a hero instead of taking a drop. I just gotta tighten up and be more consistent.

O.K., back to the topic.

I think that there is a unified process behind everything but I can't prove it. I don't think it's possible to come up with a single system of thought that explains it all, though. Whatever it is, it doesn't seem to be something you can pin down deductively and grasp in your hand. I've tried but it always squirts out through my fingers and gets away.

Chris
 
RubySera_Martin said:
Chris, this is off-topic almost as far as golf. Is that baby in the highchair your kid? Or just a cute picture you decided to post? Whatever, I really like it.
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That is my five year old on her first birthday. See all the cake in her grubby fist?

My kids are cuter than any one else's. That's another relative truth!:)

Chris
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
I think that there is a unified process behind everything but I can't prove it. I don't think it's possible to come up with a single system of thought that explains it all, though. Whatever it is, it doesn't seem to be something you can pin down deductively and grasp in your hand. I've tried but it always squirts out through my fingers and gets away.

Chris
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I think there is a unified process behind everything and I believe it is love. I almost didn't write this because I know is sounds trite, and I know there's a lot of suffering and evil in the world and so saying Love seems disingenious or something. But, I decided to go for it anyway and put myself out there.

luna
 
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