What Is Liberal Christianity?

JustifiedByFaith said:
Dear All,

As I contemplate the overall direction that the church is traveling, I see the word "grace" and actions of grace being mis-used. There are very clear quidelines in the scriptures regarding men & woman in the church and homosexuality. In my opinion, for a congregation to even "consider" ordaining a homosexual pastor is in my opinion "apostacy" at it's highest degree. I am afraid that in the name of "getting along at all costs" or as some might call this "liberalism" , we as christians are dropping some of the basic essentials that "unify" and "separate" us from the ways of the world. We are appearing to be more and more like the world itself.:confused:
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I just disagree with your ideas, Justified. I think God created all of us and the entire universe. If God creates homosexuals then who are we to reject their full humanity. No, I think being part of God's world and humanity is a very good thing.
 
wil said:
I fall back on the two commandments...the two Old Testament Jewish Commandments, that Jesus as a Jew correctly answered as the most important.

They don't imply that it is ours to judge or condemn or worry ourselves constantly with what others do. They tell us what we are to do, and they are fairly clear.
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Wil, I enjoy your cheerful presence on here. I also agree whole-heartedly with your idea of not taking the Bible too literally. For example, if we feel a distaste for homosexuality we can sure find scripture to support our opinion. If we feel an aversion to owning a driver's license and automobile we can sure find scripture to support and justify our feeling. And I know whole faith communities that feel such aversions. They can point out every passage in the Bible warning against driving an automobile.

When I left the horse and buggy community where I was born I joined a much more liberal church. That church is seen by the horse and buggy people as totally lost to the world. What really makes me scream is when THEY ("worldly church") talk about keeping separation with the world.

I just threw the whole separationist garbage out the window. "The world" is not people who own certain technologies or who discard certain so-called biblical ordinances; it's one's dominant society. If one is born into a closed community that is distinct from the rest of the country in dress, language, laws and lifestyle, then that community IS dominant society for that person.

The Bible says to "come out from among them." And I did. So you see, Justified, one specific interpretation of the Bible is not universally applicable or correct. BTW, there are also commands in the Bible against using the internet. I don't know what they are but I've been told my former community has rules against using it and I know it's not the only community with such restrictions.

Thus, the Bible very clearly states for Christians not to drive cars and not to use the internet, two things you probably do every day. How do you decide which rules to take literally? This is a serious question to which I would appreciate an answer. I've asked it of conservative Christians before and they always avoid answering it.

Liberal Christianity has room for such diversity of thought. While liberal Christians are obligated to be tolerant of conservative Christians they do not feel obligated in the least to accept the literal biblical interpretations against issues like the ordination of otherwise qualified persons just because of how they practice sex or because they happen to have female bodies.
 
RubySera_Martin said:
I just disagree with your ideas, Justified. I think God created all of us and the entire universe. If God creates homosexuals then who are we to reject their full humanity. No, I think being part of God's world and humanity is a very good thing.
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Dear RubySera,

I think you completely missed my point regarding homosexuals. Please read my post again. :)
 
Dear Ruby,

It was "specifically" concerning "identified professing" homosexuals in positions of authority within the church. >pastors, elders, deacons... for example. :)
 
JustifiedByFaith said:
Dear lunamoth,

Great. Let's assume that flow has answered the thread question. thank you Flow.
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JBF:

Sorry I went off on a toot, but that happens sometimes in heated discussions. If forgiveness is divine... then the discussions on this thread will require some divinity ( no not the white fudge that melts in your mouth) from each of us from time to time. But then, isn't that what Christians are supposed to be about ?
Thanks Luna !

All:
As far as using post #2 as a guideline definition regarding Liberal Christianity, remember that the gist of my thinking was that ALL things change in time, including us. So additions, deletions, modifications will ALWAYS be necessary as things go along. But how to keep track of agreements/ disagreements/changes? If we are forming some sort of community here on this issue, then do we even worry about stuff like that?

BTW, my overall view about all of this and the violent turmoil of the 20th century is that Jesus was a herald of what was to come in the distant future. That there would be a third sort of human born into the human race eventually with attributes similar to His, and He was sent here to help condition us to believe the necesssary concepts that would render this sort of person more acceptable to the two types of humans that have been here from the very beginning. I've done a lot of textual research on this concept, and there is quite a bit of information out there that seems to justify it.

Comments?

flow....:)
 
flowperson said:
JBF:

Sorry I went off on a toot, but that happens sometimes in heated discussions. If forgiveness is divine... then the discussions on this thread will require some divinity ( no not the white fudge that melts in your mouth) from each of us from time to time. But then, isn't that what Christians are supposed to be about ?

Thanks Luna !

flow....:)
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Dear Luna,

Your just fine,...I never felt any heat. We all perceive conversation in different ways right?:)
 
flowperson said:
BTW, my overall view about all of this and the violent turmoil of the 20th century is that Jesus was a herald of what was to come in the distant future. That there would be a third sort of human born into the human race eventually with attributes similar to His, and He was sent here to help condition us to believe the necesssary concepts that would render this sort of person more acceptable to the two types of humans that have been here from the very beginning. I've done a lot of textual research on this concept, and there is quite a bit of information out there that seems to justify it.

Comments?

flow....:)
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Ruby said:

What do you see as the two types of humanity that have existed from the beginning?
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Flow said:

Rock people and tree people.
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So I guess you don't want me to know what you're talking about and your call for comments was a joke.
 
flowperson said:
JBF:

Sorry I went off on a toot, but that happens sometimes in heated discussions. If forgiveness is divine... then the discussions on this thread will require some divinity ( no not the white fudge that melts in your mouth) from each of us from time to time. But then, isn't that what Christians are supposed to be about ?
Thanks Luna !

All:
As far as using post #2 as a guideline definition regarding Liberal Christianity, remember that the gist of my thinking was that ALL things change in time, including us. So additions, deletions, modifications will ALWAYS be necessary as things go along. But how to keep track of agreements/ disagreements/changes? If we are forming some sort of community here on this issue, then do we even worry about stuff like that?

BTW, my overall view about all of this and the violent turmoil of the 20th century is that Jesus was a herald of what was to come in the distant future. That there would be a third sort of human born into the human race eventually with attributes similar to His, and He was sent here to help condition us to believe the necesssary concepts that would render this sort of person more acceptable to the two types of humans that have been here from the very beginning. I've done a lot of textual research on this concept, and there is quite a bit of information out there that seems to justify it.

Comments?

flow....:)
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I would be most appreciative if you would expound on the idea of a third human type. If you believe that the first two human types are male and female, would the third type be some kind of conglomeration of the first two? I think we have this already...they are called hermaphrodites. :D
 
RubySera_Martin said:
So I guess you don't want me to know what you're talking about and your call for comments was a joke.
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Not a joke, but a considered opinion based upon symbolic interpretations (yeah, sort of like Robert Langdon's) of culturally important mythologies from around the world including biblical stories and metaphor; and, artifacts that point to certain anthropomorphic representations in ancient cultures.

This third type of human would be more of a genotype variance (genome composition) as opposed to phenotype variance ( external appearance ) and would enable special abilities. I believe that we are seeing the flowering of the process at present, but it has been progressing slowly since the end of WWII. Of course this is only my opinion, but it has been developed over the past twenty years or so of headwork. Phenotype changes are usually the last things to appear in speciation shifts. It's the way that evolution works over time.

The modification of a species, as some of us discussed on a thread concerning finches, may sometimes be a sudden thing, but most often is a gradual series of small changes, the significance of which is not readily apparent until it has been tracked over a period of decades. But IMHO, some of us, as a part of a larger species group that has been around a very long time, are being changed into another group with common attributes.

IMO, this is mainly due to our living within and interacting with artificially constructed and operated environments as opposed to natural environments. The obesity epidemic, sexual ambiguities, accelerated childhood allergies, and accelerated brain and emotional disorders among the young would be just three of these gradual changes that we are acquainted with, and that seem to be accelerating with time

Again, let me emphasize that this is only my opinion, and if you wish to believe that I'm a living joke, or otherwise deranged in some ways, so be it. All things within nature change over time. We all are a part of nature because I DO believe that we were created to be just that by the Almighty. That is our most basic boundary limitation. All I know is that many of my conclusions have proven themselves to me over time.

You may ask me any question that you like about this, but my time for answering them is pretty much limited to my days off, Mondays and Thursdays.

Peace...flow....:cool:
 
Dondi said:
I would be most appreciative if you would expound on the idea of a third human type. If you believe that the first two human types are male and female, would the third type be some kind of conglomeration of the first two? I think we have this already...they are called hermaphrodites. :D
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originally posted by flowperson:
Not a joke, but a considered opinion based upon symbolic interpretations (yeah, sort of like Robert Langdon's) of culturally important mythologies from around the world including biblical stories and metaphor; and, artifacts that point to certain anthropomorphic representations in ancient cultures.
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Okay now I understand. I thought you were talking about cultures or races. I had no idea you were talking about the level of physiology.

I guess it is not without reason that I am preoccupied with cultural differences. I live with it every day of the week. I have never been exposed to the news media, TV, or radio, and I have no high school education. I simply don't know who Robert Langdon is. Never heard of him. I have no background in mythology.

The only "mainstream" background I have is my university education. Since the majority of the population has some high school and no university education I am not sure if even this can be considered "mainstream." It's weird. That's all.

The one thing I feel on par with others here is technology. I "came onto the scene" just before email was common. So I grew into it with others in my age group. So long as discussion sticks to religion and human nature and culture, I follow. The minute it turns to cultural basics that everybody learned in Grades 9 and 10, I'm lost.

I've found that most people are very willing to help me out if I explain that I know more about hitching a horse to a buggy and traveling to the city in all weather than I do about what fits into a car trunk. I know how to survive a snow storm in sub-zero weather on the open buggy. I don't know for sure how big boxes fit into a car trunk for moving. That's been quite a challenge for me. BTW, I don't drive, haven't got a driver's license and don't plan to get one. My vision is too low, considering that I am not familiar with cars.

Oops! I've wandered off-topic.
 
Ruby:

Your wandering is a delight to us, at least to me. Robert Langdon is the ficticious hero of The DaVinci Code, and he is known for his academic expertise in symbolic interpretation.

Yes, your perspective is a different one, but definitely not weird ! If more of us hadn't been exposed to the mass media as we grew we probably wouldn't all be as confused as we are now. Media makes up the largest portion of human culture these days, and we participate mostly through casual observance. Not a very dynamic situation for all of us dynamicallty designed humans, huh ?

peace....flow....:)
 
flowperson said:
Ruby:

Your wandering is a delight to us, at least to me. Robert Langdon is the ficticious hero of The DaVinci Code, and he is known for his academic expertise in symbolic interpretation.
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What a laugh! My excuses no longer work. I've been meaning to read the DaVinci Code for some time but haven't gotten gotten around to it yet. Maybe I will have to fit it in before classes start again in the fall. I'll have to see if the public library still has a waiting list for it. I wanted to loan it soon after it came out but there were limits on it at the time. Since it is about as much a part of our culture as Lord of the Rings I figure I should read it. That way I am at least in the loop on something. Besides, what you say about it makes it sound more interesting than anything I've yet heard.

Yes, your perspective is a different one, but definitely not weird !
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Thank you, flow:) I sent you a pm to explain in more detail.

If more of us hadn't been exposed to the mass media as we grew we probably wouldn't all be as confused as we are now.
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Hmmm. I never said I wasn't confused. I grew up very seriously confused. I'm still working on sorting things but I've come a long way.

Media makes up the largest portion of human culture these days, and we participate mostly through casual observance.
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Fact of the matter is I now have a TV and with the internet I can access the media. I've always has access to newspapers. I just find it takes a LOT of time and is not condusive to sleeping at night. If bad things are going to happen they will happen whether or not I know about it in advance. Not knowing about it in advance spares me the worry. If it's something specific to this area like a tornado or ice storm (obviously for different times of the year), I'm sure to hear about it on the street on the bus.
 
What if they weren't human?
Gen 1:26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, [b] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them....
Gen3:21 The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."
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Could it be that this is inferring that we started out as spirit, like G-d? Like on of them? And then the story is inferring we became more when G-d put skin on, our garments of skin/flesh?

Another thought of a friend of mind during discussion after church, she indicated that the she saw the spirit, the essence of G-d, creation of G-d; man being tossed out of the garden and into the animal kingdom, now destined for evolution.
 
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