Abogado del Diablo
Ferally Decent
RubySera_Martin said:So the fundy is sending a person to hell so he himself can get salvation.
Add in the doctrines of the Prosperity Gospel, and you also have the makings of a pyramid scheme.
RubySera_Martin said:So the fundy is sending a person to hell so he himself can get salvation.
Abogado del Diablo said:Add in the doctrines of the Prosperity Gospel, and you also have the makings of a pyramid scheme.![]()
oh, so THAT is liberal Christianity....lolAbogado del Diablo said:Add in the doctrines of the Prosperity Gospel, and you also have the makings of a pyramid scheme.![]()
RubySera_Martin said:Dondi, the issue you raise about the mandate for Christians to proselityze is a serious issue. I understand exactly where you are coming from. I've been on that side of the fence. It's a matter of conscience for you. It is also a matter of conscience for me to take care of myself. I don't know how to reconcile the issue of your conscience with my conscience. How can the same God give opposing commands to his children?
Here's the cold logic:
The fundy approach makes for unmanageable depression in some people. This drives them to suicide. For the fundy not to proselytize it means loss of his salvation. However, he also believes the person who commits suicide goes to hell. So the fundy is sending a person to hell so he himself can get salvation.
Dondi said:Is it so twisted to show people how much God loves them by sending His Son to save them from their sins? How does this lead to suicide?
RubySera_Martin said:Because when people cannot consciensiously accept that proposition as truth they are not accepted into the community. They are treated as a bad person. Love the sinner but not the sin. If this happens to be the community you were born into, you are forced as a teenager to choose between lying (saying something your intellect and conscience tells you is not the truth) and being ostracized by your entire social universe.
Mark 12:28-31
28. One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?"
29. "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.
30. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.'
31. The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."
Abogado del Diablo said:And if Taijasi callously disregarded a feeling you had expressed, perhaps you should have said something.
RubySera_Martin said:Flow, did Post 2 come out of your brain? I mean, did you compose those definitions and the explanations? My hat's off to you. You must be a professional policy drafter.
Dondi said:But what he said was nothing specific, perse. He was just rather general of his view of fundies, which I could have taken offense, except that it wasn't directed toward me directly.
RubySera_Martin said:Dondi, I don't understand your talk about forgiving. Apparently you hated what taijais said on another thread. You refuse to admit it there. But you come over here and blow your stack. When confronted you say it wasn't bad enough to mention. Do you think he does not read this thread? This looks like anything BUT forgiveness to me. It looks like denial in its purest form.
Maybe, but not to post as I did ...Dondi said:But I then realize that from his perspective he has every right to feel that way.
I believe you experienced my true feelings for some of the fundie types - and certainly not all, I will add - but thank you very much, Dondi, for pausing, reflecting, and cooling down before you responded ... and thus for helping to move things forward, rather than detracting.Dondi said:But I do commend you, taij, for being civil about it your handling extreme fundys, though you definitely did not show it in your post.
Ahhhh ... and you see, this is precisely the kind of thing I think we need to work through. Wil, I am with you, and everyone, in this - I hope. Yes, I understand that this can be a person's perception, and yes, I realize the proselytism is often done out of the best of intentions (see my response to Ruby, below), but I'm sorry, this is patently offensive to me. For the same reasons Ruby jumped on me in another thread - and rightly so - I must object.Dondi said:Instead, I hope to share some ideas about how fundamentalists view witnessing as a tool to reach the "lost"
Anything less, doesn't belong at CR.Dondi said:There has to be a degree of respect when sharing. Even in debate.
Nope, but if you want to show me, show me, don't TELL me.Dondi said:Is it so twisted to show people how much God loves them by sending His Son to save them from their sins?
But for me not to get up and walk away, sometimes, can mean the loss of my cool, or in the very least, the loss of a productive afternoon. I am always more than willing to pocket the little pamphlets, and I have a feeling that some here might be surprised if they could see how friendly I usually am with anyone who walks up and starts that kind of stuff. Why? Because I DO realize their motivation, and I do have some understanding of their beliefs. More so, I have experienced probably a great deal of what most folks mean, when they talk about, "The love of God, the love of Christ, the love of Jesus, the feeling of being saved, the STATE of being saved, the Grace of God," and a dozen or more other such things - many having to do with the power of the Holy Spirit, and Pentecost, and all that jazz.Ruby said:For the fundy not to proselytize it means loss of his salvation.
Here is how my close friend during college handled it. Steve was a devout and pious Catholic, and I always looked up to him, and felt that he embodied very much the Love of Christ which we are all here to come to know and to share with others. Steve was quite open and friendly, when he was with people who can be likewise. He could sometimes be slightly withdrawn, but only where he knew instinctively that it was better to let other people do the ego dance. Steve had no interest in that.wil said:So how do we handle it? To me unconditional love, love thy neighbor, all implies I surely have no need to jump off the handle and down their throat...especially after all of us have been there...and some of us may be going back!
...
The question again is this thing exists....be it proseleltyzing or what we perceive as uncaring individuals or hate groups...how do we move forward without promoting negative behaviour or acting like the pharisees?
Paladin said:I think Kendo put it best when he said " I don't want to be just a Christian I want to become Christ"
Peace
Mark
JustifiedByFaith said:Dear everyone,
Wow! I didn't expect the horses to run out of the chutes so fast on this one...Just kidding of course. Say, I appreciate the responses to my simple thread question. It somewhat bothers me that there is really not a defined definition though? I am always uncomfortable with the word "liberal". This makes me concerned and cautious when I hear it tied in with Christianity. I get "red-flags" thinking that "sound doctrine" can be twisted to become more "touchy-feel"?
Does this make sense? I often see examples in the body of Christ where I am afraid that the "don't do's" have become the "Okay to do's". Is this caused by Liberal Christianity?Am I making any sense here?