What defines a Christian?

[lunamoth]

An excellent expression of that elusive thing we call we 'faith'.

I second that. Well done, Q.

luna

 

[leastone]

Amen.

 

[inhumility]

I was challenged on another thread regarding my status as Christian. Am I a Christian? I have no idea. I just know what I believe. And it's not traditional orthodox Christian beliefs.
We've looked at liberal Christianity and progressive Christianity but I don't think we have yet discussed what qualifies a person to call him or herself a Christian.
If you look up the beliefs of Liberal Protestants on Beliefnet, you will see that a person does not necessarily have to believe in the miracles, the resurrection, or even in Jesus as the Christ in order to identify as a Christian.
I think the only people who really care are the fundamentalists. Given that fundamentalism is a relatively new religion itself, it seems somewhat preposterous that fundamentalists presume to define Christianity for the rest of the world.
Outside traditional orthodox Christian belief, what defines a person as Christian? What do liberal Christians think defines them as Christians rather than some other name such as humanists?
It is hoped that, while anyone can respond, no one will tell another person that his or her beliefs do not qualify as Christian.

The first thing is that anyone who likes to say that he is a Christian, he should be considered a Christian, so simple. There is no noble prize attached with being a Christian that one should insist on being called as such while one is not.
Secondly, anybody who believes in Jesus and that Jesus received Word/Revelation from God is a truthful follower of Jesus, whatever label he desires for himself he should be entitled to it.
Thirdly there are persons who think they have a license from some authority to declare others Christian or heretic, such persons should be considered spiritually as sick human beings, as nobody has given them such authority. Such persons should be ignored without a least worry about them. If they are sincere then they should try to convince others with logic, morals and rationality. In fact they have shallow knowledge but tall claims so they adopt such cheap measures.
Thanks

 

[Dondi]

In regard to Q's experience, it is amazing that sometimes when I've talked and ministered to people, things just fall flat, and maybe because I've tried too hard and the way it comes out just felt "wrong". But the there are other times when my thoughts just clicked and the right things come out and felt right, you knoiw what i mean? As if I wasn't the one speaking, but the Spirit through me. Then I'm left to wonder "how I'd come up with that?"

 

[Dondi]

The first thing is that anyone who likes to say that he is a Christian, he should be considered a Christian, so simple. There is no noble prize attached with being a Christian that one should insist on being called as such while one is not.
Secondly, anybody who believes in Jesus and that Jesus received Word/Revelation from God is a truthful follower of Jesus, whatever label he desires for himself he should be entitled to it.
Such persons should be ignored without a least worry about them. If they are sincere then they should try to convince Thirdly there are persons who think they have a license from some authority to declare others Christian or heretic, such persons should be considered spiritually as sick human beings, as nobody has given them such authority.others with logic, morals and rationality. In fact they have shallow knowledge but tall claims so they adopt such cheap measures.
Thanks

Fairly strong accusations, inhumility. Does that mean everyone who is an orthodox Christian is suspect? Or sick?

But what you said can also apply to people of others faiths, no? Try substituting the word "Christian" in the above paragraph to some other faith you know.

 

[Blue Jay]

Fairly strong accusations, inhumility. Does that mean everyone who is an orthodox Christian is suspect? Or sick?

I think it means that nobody has the right to judge whether or not others are Christians; Jesus said as much himself. All orthodox Christians do not judge so inhumility is not saying that all orthodox Christians are sick. "Sick" does seem like a rather strong term, all the same. Maybe immature or less than perfect would be more accurate. That's my take on it. IH may have a better eplanation.

BJ

 

[Quahom1]

I think it means that nobody has the right to judge whether or not others are Christians; Jesus said as much himself. All orthodox Christians do not judge so inhumility is not saying that all orthodox Christians are sick. "Sick" does seem like a rather strong term, all the same. Maybe immature or less than perfect would be more accurate. That's my take on it. IH may have a better eplanation.

BJ

Good thing you let us know that, because I was on my way out the door to my doctor (pediatrician), to fix and kiss my boo boo...

v/r

Q

 

[Terrence]

What defines a Christian? The book of 1John sums it up pretty well. Do you love God? Do you believe that Jesus came in the flesh and died and rose again to save sinners (Law breakers)? Do you hate the world and the things of the world? Do you love Christians? Are you a sinner in desprate need of a Savior? Are you trusting in Jesus' works, namely, His perfect like and perfect sacrifice that you may be saved from God's wrath? Are you NOT trusting in yourself and any good merit of your own to be saved from God's wrath? Do you need Jesus? Are you growing in holiness and trusting Christ to finish the good works He begun in you?

If you answered "yes" to all those questions, you are not - thats right - not, a muslim or buddhist or anything other than a Chrisitan.

 

[presser_kun]

What defines a Christian? The book of 1John sums it up pretty well. Do you love God?

Yes, I do love God, as I understand God. It may not be the most traditional understanding of deity, but I use the name, "God."

Do you believe that Jesus came in the flesh and died and rose again to save sinners (Law breakers)?

I believe this.

Do you hate the world and the things of the world?

All of them? There are many things of this world that I love: Ice cream, foliage in autumn, the exciting bustle of city life, coffee, snow angels, and more. I do, however, feel that there is much in the world that is wrong due to human selfishness and greed and closed-minded mean-spiritedness.

Do you love Christians?

When did this become a requisite for being identified as a Christian? There is a natural affinity that I feel for those who love God, but there are also more than a few who call themselves Christian who are rather dispicable.

Are you a sinner in desprate need of a Savior?

Isn't this a description of someone prior to becoming a Christian? A Christian already has a savior - or, rather, accepts Christ as her savior.

Are you trusting in Jesus' works, namely, His perfect like and perfect sacrifice that you may be saved from God's wrath?

What is his "perfect like"?

Are you NOT trusting in yourself and any good merit of your own to be saved from God's wrath?

I definitely do not trust my own good works to save me.

Do you need Jesus?

Yes, I do. Daily.

Are you growing in holiness

I hope so. It's my goal.

and trusting Christ to finish the good works He begun in you?

I believe he is working his will in me.

Do I qualify?





Isn't it interesting that Jesus never asks anyone to believe in him, but, rather, God?

 

[Quahom1]

Isn't it interesting that Jesus never asks anyone to believe in him, but, rather, God?

Hmmm, I'm gonna leave you to decide after you read this from Jesus' "own words".


According to Jesus

John 6:35​

​

"I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst.
John 7:37-38 "If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink. 38 "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.'"
John 8:12 "I am the Light of the world; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life."
John 10:9 "I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture."
John 10:10 "I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly."
John 11:25-26 "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, 26 and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?"
John 14:6 "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me."
John 5:22,23 "For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, 23 so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him."
John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."
John 8:42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me."
John 12:44 And Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in Me, does not believe in Me but in Him who sent Me."
John 12:45 "He who sees Me sees the One who sent Me."
John 14:9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yetyou have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how canyou say, 'Show us the Father'?"
John 14:10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works."
John 14:11 "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves."
John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."
John 10:11 "I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep."
John 10:14 "I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me,"
John 15:5 "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing."
​

 

[presser_kun]

Hmmm, I'm gonna leave you to decide after you read this from Jesus' "own words".

"John was written for the Greek Christians of the beginning of the second century. These recent converts were more educated, wealthy, and despised the Diaspora Jews who resided in their cities and who enjoyed the respect of Rome. John removes the offensive references to Jesus as a Jewish Messiah that are particular to the earlier gospels, in order to present the Logos in more palatable form. In so doing, John creates a simulacrum that is barely human. The earlier Synoptic traditions are emphatic in presenting Jesus as the Jewish Messiah, descendent of David, and eschatological messenger of the end of the world where God collects his Chosen People. John removes the unpleasantness of Jewish geneaology as well as all references to Palestinian and Davidic descent.
"Jesus is distanced from the Jews who are the children of darkness:"
- James Still, "The Gospel of John and the Hellenization of Jesus"

These are hardly "Jesus' own words," which, despite attempts to say otherwise, cannot be accurately ascertained.

Does this mean the Bible isn't true?

Not at all. The spirit of the words, not their literal meaning, is what matters.

If all of these statements from the lips of Jesus are accurate, then why were they not reported by the authors of the gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke? Surely such declarative statements were worthy of note. Yet the Jesus of the synoptic gospels is so different as to be almost (almost) unrecognizable when compared to John's Jesus, who shouts when the synoptic Jesus warns his disciples not to tell of his godhood.

Mark's Jesus tells the rich young ruler not to call him "good teacher," for none but God are good. Matthew couldn't stomach that, so he rewrote Jesus' words.

Need I go on?

There is truth in the Bible, but we must be careful not to take it literally.

Who wrote, for whom, and what was intended are all paramount in determining how to take the text in today's world.

 

[Terrence]

Yes, I do love God, as I understand God. It may not be the most traditional understanding of deity, but I use the name, "God."

My answer: Cool! Great! Biblical answer: If you dont have the right Jesus or if your Christology is wrong, you dont have God but instead is guilty of idolotry - serving another god.

All of them? There are many things of this world that I love: Ice cream, foliage in autumn, the exciting bustle of city life, coffee, snow angels, and more. I do, however, feel that there is much in the world that is wrong due to human selfishness and greed and closed-minded mean-spiritedness.

Sorry, I should have explained more indepth, I guess? Umm...The "world" and the "things of it" are refering to sinful things and the sinful world system apart from and against Christ. I love ice cream too!

When did this become a requisite for being identified as a Christian? There is a natural affinity that I feel for those who love God, but there are also more than a few who call themselves Christian who are rather dispicable.

It became a prerequiste for being a Christian when the book of 1 John was written. The whole book was written so that you can know if you are really of the faith, according to the book.

Isn't this a description of someone prior to becoming a Christian? A Christian already has a savior - or, rather, accepts Christ as her savior.

Yep. But, its also something that a saved person admits, even after coming to Christ. On a side note, no one can "accept" Christ. Jesus is King of Kings and God. He has to accept us. He will if we repent and trust in Him.

What is his "perfect like"?

Sorry, I meant "Perfect life." It was a typo.

I definitely do not trust my own good works to save me.

Amen. Me either. I suck!

Yes, I do. Daily.

Amen. Me too!

I hope so. It's my goal.

Awesome! May you attain it by God's grace!!

I believe he is working his will in me.

Work out your salvation with fear and trembeling. Because it is God in you, both doing the willing and working to bring about the good in you for His good pleasure. God definitly is working in His people!

Do I qualify?

You ask me? Read the book of 1st John and test yourself to see if you're in the faith whereby you can making your calling and election sure.

Isn't it interesting that Jesus never asks anyone to believe in him, but, rather, God?

I dont see that at all. I see Jesus saying "Follow me" and believe in me" and "I am the way" etc.

 

[Quahom1]

"John was written for the Greek Christians of the beginning of the second century. These recent converts were more educated, wealthy, and despised the Diaspora Jews who resided in their cities and who enjoyed the respect of Rome. John removes the offensive references to Jesus as a Jewish Messiah that are particular to the earlier gospels, in order to present the Logos in more palatable form. In so doing, John creates a simulacrum that is barely human. The earlier Synoptic traditions are emphatic in presenting Jesus as the Jewish Messiah, descendent of David, and eschatological messenger of the end of the world where God collects his Chosen People. John removes the unpleasantness of Jewish geneaology as well as all references to Palestinian and Davidic descent.
"Jesus is distanced from the Jews who are the children of darkness:"
- James Still, "The Gospel of John and the Hellenization of Jesus"

These are hardly "Jesus' own words," which, despite attempts to say otherwise, cannot be accurately ascertained.

Does this mean the Bible isn't true?

Not at all. The spirit of the words, not their literal meaning, is what matters.

If all of these statements from the lips of Jesus are accurate, then why were they not reported by the authors of the gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke? Surely such declarative statements were worthy of note. Yet the Jesus of the synoptic gospels is so different as to be almost (almost) unrecognizable when compared to John's Jesus, who shouts when the synoptic Jesus warns his disciples not to tell of his godhood.

Mark's Jesus tells the rich young ruler not to call him "good teacher," for none but God are good. Matthew couldn't stomach that, so he rewrote Jesus' words.

Need I go on?

There is truth in the Bible, but we must be careful not to take it literally.

Who wrote, for whom, and what was intended are all paramount in determining how to take the text in today's world.

John was written for the Greeks? I don't think so. Matthew was written for the Jews (do we agree?), and Luke being a physician, catered to whom? the Greeks. Mark, handled Roman sensibilities quite well, and that leaves John...simple John, who's message was so elementary that even a child could get it. John was written for the simple gentiles...(for me).

Now, by all means correct my error on my conclusions, if you have evidence to do so. But that is what I think.

v/r

Q

 

[presser_kun]

John was written for the Greeks? I don't think so.

First of all, I want to apologize for coming off as vitriolic. I was a fundamentalist evangelical Christian for a long time, and am recovering from that. I still believe in the living Jesus, but not in a rigid, unforgiving way, as so many of my brethren (yes, they are still my siblings in Christ) do.

Now, to your point. If John wasn't written for the Greeks, then why take out all the Jewish references to the messiah?

 

[Quahom1]

First of all, I want to apologize for coming off as vitriolic. I was a fundamentalist evangelical Christian for a long time, and am recovering from that. I still believe in the living Jesus, but not in a rigid, unforgiving way, as so many of my brethren (yes, they are still my siblings in Christ) do.

Now, to your point. If John wasn't written for the Greeks, then why take out all the Jewish references to the messiah?

Fair enough question. My thought is, what would a "gentile" know of a Jewish Messiah? What indeed would a gentile know of the inner workings of Judeasm, at all?

Think about it. If one had an audience that wanted to know about Jesus the Christ...which Gospel would one use to start the learning process? I, would think that the one used would have the building blocks set up in the beginning...the ABC's if you will.

And my friend Press, there is only one Gospel that starts us at the beginning...not a place to try and start one who is Jewish, or learned Greeks...

What think you?

v/r

Q

 

[presser_kun]

And my friend Press, there is only one Gospel that starts us at the beginning...not a place to try and start one who is Jewish, or learned Greeks...

What think you?

v/r

Q

Methinks I agree, friend Quahom1. John is definitely the right choice of all those who would start the beginning believer with the basics. It sets forth the first principles of what it means to be a Christian.

Alas, though, for those who have succumbed to the virus of "thinking," as have I, things become complicated thereafter . . . .

 

[Quahom1]

Methinks I agree, friend Quahom1. John is definitely the right choice of all those who would start the beginning believer with the basics. It sets forth the first principles of what it means to be a Christian.

Alas, though, for those who have succumbed to the virus of "thinking," as have I, things become complicated thereafter . . . .

Of course, which are lessons 201, 301, 1501 so to speak. But, the beginning is the root, and the foundation anyone can fall back on and start anew, if or when they feel the need.

For as smart as I think, I am, there are times when I call my folks, and almost like a kid, ask "what did Jesus say, again"?, just to hear them tell me the story so old, but every time heard, so new.

I'm 45 years old, a man in my own right...and yet I love to hear my parents tell me once more, about Jesus.

I want to get it right you see...because one day, they'll be gone, and my sons will be calling "me", to hear about Jesus...

v/r

Q

 

[Terrence]

In Short, here's why defines a Christian:

Someone who has come to see themselves in light of God's Laws and has had revealed within himself, what he is when compared to the back drop of God's Holy nature - a wicked man who is worthy of God's greatest condemnation. This sort of man knows He is already condemned by God's laws. What good can he now do to out do the laws he has transgressed and out way God's demands for those who have broken God's Laws? He can do nothing! At this crucial moment, when a man acknowledges that he can do nothing to save himself, he is humbled from all arrogance and false pride. He is now at the height of dispare..."Oh, what a wretched man I am. Who will deliever me from this body of death?"

At this moment, grace is delivered and the Spirit of God speaks the most sobering, most sweet and gracious words a condemned man will ever hear. "Psss...Look to the cross! That man there suffered for the likes of you. Behold Him who knew no sin and yet suffered for sinners. Trust in Him!!" Now, to the condemned sinner, Jesus is no longer just a "good man" or "prophet" or "mythical or historical figure in a book," but has become Savior. But, this is only the begining. Grace is given to the sinner and now the sinner can now believe in true faith. As a result of true faith, the sinner is changed (progressively) into becoming like the one who saved Him - Jesus.

The sinner now follows Jesus by denying self (not for selfish reasons as in the past, but now as a sacrifice of love to God) and lives a life of repentance. He now obeys the word of God and grows in grace. The regeneration work that God does to the sinner is so real and powerful, that the sinner looks nothing like he did before. These are some things that define a Christian.

 

[cavalier]

Ok, given what you wrote on the "Buddha is a Catholic Saint" thread about Biblcal Christians, i'm surprised that haven't mentioned the Bible here.

 

[Terrence]

Ok, given what you wrote on the "Buddha is a Catholic Saint" thread about Biblcal Christians, i'm surprised that haven't mentioned the Bible here.

lol...Sorry, I got lazy. The Bible comes in when God gives us grace to see Jesus for who He is. And that moment, the Bible, which was previously, old, dry, and boring, becomes our food where which we learn about God and hear from Him.