Ok then Qthe only "flawed" being is us...that is pretty much self evident by today's standards.
v/r
Joshua
Ok then Qthe only "flawed" being is us...that is pretty much self evident by today's standards.
v/r
Joshua
Somehow, Sin must be paid for.
God, because He is Perfect, is the only One who can fix the problem of Sin in Man.
Therefore, God came in the form of a Man.
quote]or as the bible tells us , God sent his only-begotten son..........
For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. John 3;16
(Romans 8:32) He who did not even spare his own Son but delivered him up for us all, why will he not also with him kindly give us all other things?
(1 John 4:9) By this the love of God was made manifest in our case, because God sent forth his only-begotten Son into the world that we might gain life through him.
Somehow, Sin must be paid for.
God, because He is Perfect, is the only One who can fix the problem of Sin in Man.
Therefore, God came in the form of a Man.
Ok, we've been here before though. As I have written before, this would mean that God could become flawed
i think you will find that i quoted dondi![]()
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You said it buddy, not me (lol).![]()
v/r
Joshua
I really appreciate you taking the time to set out your views like this.Hmm...I guess I didn't make my premise plain. The whole point I was trying to make in saying that Man was made innocent, is that in order to maintain that state of innocence, Man would have had to have eaten the Tree of Life (i.e. God's Spirit). The point is that no one can maintain that state of innocence until that which is Perfect (God's Spirit) is infused in him, for lack of a better term. In the state of innocence, that is the state of potential choice between good and evil, Man's fall would have eventually happened because the Spirit of God was not in him at that point.
That is why I said that if Man had eaten the Tree of Life, Man would have lived forever in Perfection for the Spirit would be in him. Instead, Man relied on his own spirit to try to resist temptation.
Man, on his own is prone to failure, without the Spirit of God. But God in His perfection, is not, for Holiness is His very nature. That is the difference.
Man could become flawed, due to freewill, but God in His Holy Nature, which means He is Holy in His Free Will, is Perfect.
Therefore I think it is faulty thinking believing that God is subject to the kind of fall Man was subjected to. The whole point of the matter of the Two Trees is God wanted to know if Man would submit his will to God's will. And that continues today.
I really appreciate you taking the time to set out your views like this.
Here you say man was created innocent, I have no problem with this. Innocent is, in itself, different to perfect.
You originally wrote that man was created perfect, but then fell. That is only possible if part of man's perfection was the possibility (and given what you have said here, I would say inevitability) of his fall.
This raises certain moral questions about God.
the bible tells me that those who are resurrected(onto the earth) will be judged on how they live their lives from that time on . and if they dont want to do it Gods way that is their choice. and the bible tells me that if they dont want to do it Gods way they will have the second death . there is no prospect of a further resurrection if they want to go to the second death. there are many asleep in death now who are in Jehovahs memory and these will have the chance to do it right when they are resurrected . but soon when the day of Jehovah happens(Armageddon) the only ones left on the earth after that day will be those who WANT to do it Gods way.Jehovah and Jesus christ can read hearts that is why only they can judge if we are worthy to survive the great day of Jehovah. but now they are telling us the way to go even in our imperfect state .as long as we are trying our best to do it Gods way ,that is the way to go. you mention the word resist, and as you know resisting and opposing God is only serving the purpose of the great opposer and resister( the original serpent satan the devil) which in turn leads to death not everlasting life. when those people are resurrected from the memorial tombs , the resister satan the devil will be out of the way for a thousand years, just think how Adam and eve could have progressed with out the influence of satan the devil around. plus the issue of universal sovreignty will never arise again .I see what cavalier is saying 100% and Mee... You're a JW right so you believe that once judgement day has come we all get raised and get that second chance to live on a paradise earth and everything will be purrr fect? Right? Right, so, aren't we back to where we were? Why won't people choose to do what Adam and Eve did? And "disobey" When these perfect sheep have a child.... What is to say that child wants anything to do with god? What if he resists all the bible studies you force down the throat of this child? What of your paradise then?
the bible tells me that those who are resurrected(onto the earth) will be judged on how they live their lives from that time on . and if they dont want to do it Gods way that is their choice. and the bible tells me that if they dont want to do it Gods way they will have the second death . there is no prospect of a further resurrection if they want to go to the second death. there are many asleep in death now who are in Jehovahs memory and these will have the chance to do it right when they are resurrected . but soon when the day of Jehovah happens(Armageddon) the only ones left on the earth after that day will be those who WANT to do it Gods way.Jehovah and Jesus christ can read hearts that is why only they can judge if we are worthy to survive the great day of Jehovah. but now they are telling us the way to go even in our imperfect state .as long as we are trying our best to do it Gods way ,that is the way to go. you mention the word resist, and as you know resisting and opposing God is only serving the purpose of the great opposer and resister( the original serpent satan the devil) which in turn leads to death not everlasting life. when those people are resurrected from the memorial tombs , the resister satan the devil will be out of the way for a thousand years, just think how Adam and eve could have progressed with out the influence of satan the devil around. plus the issue of universal sovreignty will never arise again .
Never again will a challenge to Jehovah’s sovereignty need to be tested over an extended period of time in order to be proved wrong.
In the first place, there will be no procreation in the Kingdom of God. Jesus was presented this very dilemma by the Sadducees (who didn't believe in the resurrection, that's why they are sad, you see?). They asked that if a man dies, and his brother marries his widow, according to tradition, and then he dies, and another brother marries her, and so on, until all the brothers die, whose wife will she be in the resurrection? Jesus replied that it would be neither, for there will be no marriage in heaven, but we will be like the angels. So hence, there will be no children born in the Kingdom.
As far as the choice to sin in the Kingdom, if our choice is to go with God, then we are choosing His Holy Spirit to be infused in our spirit. When the resurrection occurs, that Holy Spirit will keep us from sin, for God cannot sin. Our choice in choosing God's Spirit now is the choice that will accomplish this later. Going bak to Adam, if he ate of the Tree of Life, before he ate of the Forbidden Tree, the choice would have resulted the same.
So no sex?
And why do people want this again?
lol... Seriously though. If you do not have marriage... And er sex without marriage is a "no no" the how the hell are you meant to "go forth sheep fill and subdue the earth." That would make jah's will irrelivent and void.... And all this suffering pain and war is apparently because jah is trying to proove a point by using satan as an example... Then his will was to carry on.
I never said that there was no sex in heaven. I believe that in the resurrection we will have incorruptable "spiritual bodies" much like the one Jesus had when He appeared to His Disciples after He rose from the dead. These bodies will function much like ours, only it will never suffer corruption of experience pain. Furthermore, I believe that what ever physical sensations we experience now will be magnified greatly beyond our ability to comprehend with the limitations of the bodies we have now, including sexual sensations. I'm not sure how it will work, but it is my believe that we will experience something that will exceed any sexual pleasure we may receive down here.
But... We are not married? So loose lifestyles are acceptable? So the righteous can go bang a prostitute?
It's not about prooving jah wrong, ]quote] yes you are right ,its not about proving Jah wrong its about proving satan wrong. Jahs way of doing things is always right, satan is the great deciever.the issue of universal sovereinty is what it is all about.