Marietta said:
You are making rude assumptions with nothing to back them up
well, we'll see about that.
We respect all spiritual paths and understand that this path will not be the chosen path of most people and from our teachings this is ok. "FREE WILL" is the main focus of this group and we respect everybody's right to their spiritual path.
in my book, if someone "respects everyone's right to their spiritual path", that does not allow them the right to tell me that they are in possession of the "real truth" underlying my religious texts and system. for example, if a christian told me that their understanding of isaiah's "suffering servant" referred to jesus and that i was mistaken not to believe this interpretation, this would not be "respect". if a muslim told me that the Torah had been "corrupted" and that the Qur'an had replaced it, that would not be "respect". those are the sort of parameters i use, so let's examine your statements in respect of these.
You make the statement that you use a variety of sources, which have been varified for your posts. Please explain who and how they were verified? Just because a person with a degree behind his name states that something is fact 'DOES NOT MAKE IT FACT."
what i mean is this: in the majority of cases, i will post a verse from the primary source (Torah, Nakh, Talmud, etc) or a quote from a Torah authority and attribute it. if i link to jewfaq, or chabad.org, or anywhere else, my attitude to the linked sites has normally already been explained; for example, i do not endorse chabad, but their translation of chumash with rashi is perfectly reliable and acceptable to most people. in the case of kabbalah, there are both halakhic sources (which are agreed to be more or less authoritative independently of anything else), such as the Talmud or the ben ish hai, traditional sources which i have personally investigated and found to be credible and scholarly sources such as scholem, idel, or matt. *now*, what i mean by independent verification is that *i* am independent of them, have a certain amount of critical distance and where i have an affiliation i try to clearly state it, but often feel free to differ. now, this may not be "independent" by your book, but i'm not the one making *scientifically verifiable* statements; i stick to the spiritual domain. does that make sense?
The basis of our teachings is Unified field physics, Quantum Physics and Metaphysics that have filled in the blank spots left out by the public science fields.
so, if it it's unified field physics and quantum field physics, then we're in a domain which requires peer review and testing, aren't we? one other thing, since when was "metaphysics" actually a science rather than a field of philosophy? perhaps i'm being dense. and if there is a "blank spot left out by public science", why is that? why are there no mainstream scientists interested in this particular field?
The mathematical equations are flawless.
i don't see how you can say that unless they've been tested in peer-reviewed research publications.
Most of the people who are attracted to these teachings are Indigo's and they can see subtle energies and have seen these inter dimensional entities, thus validating these things for our self.
that is fair enough, but you're actually going beyond that to impose your interpretation , you are giving one interpretation of a widely observed phenomenon. how do we know yours is "true"? theosophists would presumably claim that these are the astral bodies of arhats or something like that, whereas christians might see angels, muslims might see djinni and shamans might see animal spirits.
These are things I came to understand years before finding the Freedom teachings while making a very crude translation of the Hebrew Scriptures in which I found the text to be a science book and then was lead to the Freedom teachings which expounded further on what I had already come to understand from my crude translation of the Hebrew Torah, which by the way according to the Etymological Dictionary of the Hebrew Language, means: a book containing all the science of the universe.
oh, yes, i remember this, we discussed it here:
http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/bible-contradictions-5733-5.html you said you could translate Torah verses backward to give medical explanations and then wouldn't give any examples when i called you on it. why was that, again? you said that you could make up your own rules as long as you find meaning in them and i said yes, you can, but that doesn't necessarily mean that what you produce would make sense, like applying the rules of classical music to chinese ideograms. can you give me an example of what you mean this time? and, incidentally, this definition (from the ernest klein dictionary, right?) is a highly interpretative definition. "Torah" is *one* word. it means *teaching*. it has many other *connotations* and *the* Torah is indeed considered to contain all the knowledge in the universe, as i have quoted elsewhere from the Mishnah "turn it over and over again, for everything is in it", but i would be delighted if you could show me *one* example of a piece of medical knowledge that could be obtained even by translating forwards, let alone backwards. it seems to me that you're taking an english word, "science", connoting "knowledge" as it applies to the Torah and misapplying it, rather like confusing metaphysics with physics.
At present there are six letters missing from the Hebrew aleph bet (taken out by the council of Nicia) which makes it hard to get the entire picture.
well, that would certainly be true, if that had indeed happened. tell me, marietta, how did a *christian theological council* manage to remove letters from the *jewish* alphabet? what makes you think that the jewish authorities of the time (the ga'onim, who were based in babylon) cared what the council of nicea did or thought about anything? and what evidence is there of any of this? can you tell me what any of these letters are? are any of them in, say, the dead sea scrolls, which predate the council of nicea? so far, i stand by what i said: you are talking complete drivel.
If you are familiar with your own teachings how much further does one have to go to understand the thought of inter-dimensional beings being here than the concept that Enoch was taken in chariots of fire unto the seventh heaven.
i am familiar with these teachings. all it says in the Torah is that "enoch was not, for G!D Took him". there is quite a lot of mystical speculation about what that actually means, with the general consensus being that he ended up becoming the angel metatron. i'm not aware of the jewish sources which talk about chariots of fire or the seventh heaven, so please do point me at them - and i'm not talking about the book of enoch, because that isn't in our canon.
Or that the Jews are a chosen race from another realm that came here as guardians and so on and so on.
i've never seen that anywhere. "chosen people", perhaps, but "chosen" to receive the Torah. at no point is it suggested that we are anything other than human.
Or how different is this from the teachings of the tree of life and it's representation of different dimensional aspects of reality?
the fact that the ToL talks about different dimensional aspects of reality does not translate into anything about "543m year-old indigo feline hominoids from outer space", unless i just haven't found that bit yet.
I have great respect for your chosen path, it is one personally studied in the past
if that is true, why are you completely ignoring what we say about ourselves and imposing this utterly bonkers sci-fi narrative on it? are you erich von daniken in disguise? or david icke? he thinks we're lizards from outer space.
Again, what in your religion can be verified? Other than that Israel exists and has gone through troubled times. People hating does not prove the validity of a religion. The effect the Torah has had on society does not prove its validity. It only proves that the inquisition did its job.
eh? the Torah proves its validity by claiming to be an integrated guide for living, for understanding the mission of the jewish people and for helping us complete that mission - and then proving that it works as such, which is why we're still here 3500 years later when, statistically, by all the rules of history, we should be long extinct. it proves its validity by having been the seedbed for sometimes apparently mutually contradictory ideas from social justice to ethical capitalism which have become universal to human society.
Now you are saying that Star wars in comprehensible just as what I posted but this conversation is taking place because you accused me of incomprehensible waffling. Make up your mind.
you said that you and lots of other people understand what you are on about. i said that is fair enough, but that doesn't mean it happened. i mentioned "star wars" because it is a very nice story about what happened long long ago, in a galaxy far away, but is also completely made up.
It also doesn't mean it didn't happen!!!!
it does if it is fiction, unless by pure coincidence george lucas happened to write down a completely true story about something he has no possible way of knowing anything about. i think the onus would be on you to provide evidence for such an extraordinary statement.
Please explain what you mean by independent verification of the freedom text?
how about someone not affiliated with the organisation writing about it in an impartial manner, for a start? as far as i can tell, all the information about this on the web seems to lead back to the same three websites controlled by the same two people. now either this is the best kept secret in history, or your friends in the emerald order have IP control issues that make the scientologists look relaxed - haven't they sued google recently because of someone outside the order writing about it?
Our teacher has stated that she would be glad to have an open forum, made free to the public with anyone who thinks they can debunk these teachings and thus far has not been taken up on the offer.
so have the people from the "church of the flying spaghetti monster", i believe. and where was this statement made, the "fortean times"?
Comparing Kaylontic Science to the Sefer Yetzirah as you know could not be done appropriately in this small space. So why do you ask a question that could not even closely be done. It would take years to put it all in
just one concept would do. that could be done quite easily.
Keylontic science goes back millions of years. It goes back to Mans first planting on Tara in the second harmonic universe (dimension six) and the destruction of Tara and the pieces that fell in frequency into this realm.
oh, deary me, wibble wibble bibble. again, are there any independent, say, astronomers that are able to confirm that this universe, or planet exists, or that any of this isn't just a bunch of made-up sci-fi-babble? "dimension six", forsooth.
It goes into the Hebrew, Hibiru, and Hykos groups (one of which call themselves Jews and are not) and how the true Jews hold a special codeing in their DNA that enables them the ability to do certain things, which is the true reason they were suppressed as a people.
go on then, what things are these? and which group is it that call themselves jews and aren't? is it by any chance the group i happen to belong to?
You seem to call anything that goes against what you believe nonsense, even other peoples views of Kabbalah. This says it all as far as where you are coming from.
that's not what i'm saying at all. there are many other views of kabbalah that i find rather beautiful and universal. but i am also saying that there are a lot of people teaching something that purports to be kabbalah which has no connection to judaism at all. kabbalah is inherently jewish. it is derived from the Torah. its tools are the hebrew language and jewish sacred texts. these other things may well be mystical. they may well be true, but that doesn't make them kabbalah.
If you would like to compare sefer yetzirah I would be more than happy to do so but think we should open another thread to do so.
go right ahead.
b'shalom
bananabrain
