Spirit Guides - what are they?

glad someone mentioned angels... as we know, originally there were only seven of the blighters, and off they would go, to do the bidding of god, which involved smiting ppl with swords, visiting them with plagues, and putting red hot coals in ppl's mouths, (to name but a few of their glorious tasks)... in the, erm, maybe mid 15th century some guy comes along and divides the kingdom of heaven into three realms, instead of just the one like b4, and he creates the angelic realm, and today, ppl believe there are millions of the blighters...

... I read the secret doctrine when I was a mere babe of 15... at the time, I thought it was something special, occult, mystical... I read it again at about 20, and realised that it looked good, but it didnt really have much substance, and that the author talked a lot and really said little we didnt know or couldnt surmise for ourselves...

I have watched with amusement as todays theosophists try to ressurect the messiah thing they had going with krsnamurti again today with maitreya, and I have laughed when they said- hey, he's the new messiah, and he has great psychic powers, but he wont use them because... because he doesn't have them? shock horror!

yes, these ideas and the way she explains them seem great, when ur living in 1890, and u have no TV, and no internet action, but today, in 2007, it all just seems a little stale, to me... its great, if u want a low brow entry into hinduism, and u dont know about lokas and mantavaras and such like, but after that...

I "dont believe in a personal, anthromorphic creator", and not because my human intellect feels dwarfed, but because, according to my simple logic, if a god like that exists, then, according to the state of the world today, he's a sadist with deep rooted psychological issues, and simply not worthy of my worship...

all this- "...the ancient Greeks, themselves on a far lower level, in these respects, than the philosophers of Eastern Aryan antiquity. Hylozoism, when philosophically understood, is the highest aspect of Pantheism. "

all sounds great, but just because u mention ancient greeks and throw in a few big words nobody's heard of it doesn't make it classy doctrine, although again, in 1890 ppl where more easily impressed and awed...

"...the Western mind, prisoned, so unconsciously to itself, and entirely degenerated by long centuries of scholastic and theological sophistry...",

basically, needs to get wth the programme, and theosophy, a poor white mans hinduism, (which is dusprayukta all the way) is supposed to fit the bill... endless lectures on the microcosm, benjamin creme selling another book, and hey! Atlantis!

the whole seven rays and the seven tiers in the heirarchy of men, where africans are referred to as lemurs (u know, monkeys...) and are not as intelligent as the germans, its all there, in the secret doctrine... hey, long may it continue...


​
 
Zagreus said:
Socarates spoke of the daimon, or daimonion, which did not advise him in the positive, but rather, indicated what not to do, thus warning him of danger.
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Socrates said that he believed he had a personal daimonion, which means "little daimon". It was only a little one because it warned him what not to do, rather than telling him what he ought to do, which is presumably what a bigger daimon would have done.

I personally believe that a daimon is only a natural aspect of one's own psychology, having to do with one's subconscious mental processes. It isn't the same thing as a conscience, though this too is a natural aspect of the way in which one's subconscious mental processes can "speak" to one's conscious mind.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
Francis king said:
... I read the secret doctrine when I was a mere babe of 15... at the time, I thought it was something special, occult, mystical... I read it again at about 20, and realised that it looked good, but it didnt really have much substance, and that the author talked a lot and really said little we didnt know or couldnt surmise for ourselves...
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Well you see, people do this with all sorts of books, like the Bible, or the Bhagavad Gita, or the Koran.

I find it curious that you already knew of the coming of the Sons of the Fire Mist, and Humanity's Individualization ... or could surmise this for yourself, without the SD. Care to explain it your own words, or in terms of the realization that had already come to you?

But Francis, if you knew thing one about what is taught on the Bodhisattva (Maitreya ... Future Buddha) in Theosophy, you'd realize quite clearly that Krishnamurti was never, ever thought to be the World Teacher ... save perhaps by a few newcomers who maybe failed to read their Sunday School lessons - or whatever it was that the Order of the Star might have used to familiarize people with the goings-on of the times.

An excellent article on World Teachers, about 5 pages long, can be found here, in a 1936 issue of World Theosophist. Francis doesn't need to read it, of course; she already knows far better than what we find here. But for the rest of us dolts, a good overview is given of the Hindu concept of Avatars, the Buddhist idea of Bodhisattvas, the Logos conception of the Christ, and the Occult idea of World Teachers. Comparisons and contrasts are shown; thus it is a good article for comparative study.

What the Theosophists believed, with Leadbeater and Besant guiding the thinking of many who were willing to trade this critical faculty for that of pure devotion (dangerous, this) .... was that the World Teacher spoke through Krishnamurti, a little bit like channeling, or your garden variety Spirit Guide, be she angel (Deva), human, or other.

The difference, of course, between the expression of the World Teacher - using Krishnamurti as His medium, just as He used Jesus 2100 years ago - and that of joe shmoe, from spirit guides r us, is that a High Initiate will be required in order to incarnate Lord Maitreya, since Earth is not yet capable (karmically speaking) of providing the substance (in the lower worlds) for such a Soul as the Christ (Bodhisattva, World Teacher, Kalki Avatara, Imam Mahdi).

So nice, isn't it, to invoke meaningless phrases like, "God is all-powerful, almighty, yadda yadda," then totally ignore the fact that Earth, like all Planets, must undergo her own spiritual evolution - as well as material. No GOD can artificially hasten (beyond a certain degree) that development in substance which HUMANITY was created (in part) to fulfil, or perform.

Eventually we must provide our own World Teachers, just as every other Planet in Cosmos ... but in the meantime, it would be good if we could just manage to produce the FORM - the family, the community, the sustainable, peace-loving society & civilization (all of these blueprints, or living ideal-models having long been given to us by God, with countless iterations & improvements, reminders, etc.) ... into which a Christ or Bodhisattva could incarnate - GEE, that would be convenient! ;)

But we can't seem to manage it. Twice, thus far, has an advanced Initiate been willing to undergo special, artificial hastening of his own evolution - certainly along lines which were not part of his original spiritual need, or intent - so that the Christ of the 5th Root Race could take Incarnation (and this is EXACTLY what He has done, even while it is via an Initiate, another Soul, that He manifests ... the method does not change the Effect for our little planet).

Francis king said:
africans are referred to as lemurs (u know, monkeys...)
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Oh Francis, your ignorance is showing again. :eek: I know, I know, at 15 you had already mastered that which most students of esotericism (even those who do appreciate HPB's service and commitment) study and meditate upon for a lifetime! And at 20, in your deep & unswerving enlightenment, all of the silliness just jumped out at you so clearly, that despite the disgrace, you humbled yourself to read it all again ... so that you could steer others away from such spurious notions as this, of the African lemurs, which in your Mastery you understood to be ill-founded.

BAH! The only thing you've got going here, when we consider our other CR member who loves to poo-poo the Theosophical teachings, is that indeed, you did bother (twice, even!!!) to crack the book (SD, or otherwise) to begin with!!! And yes, I am impressed, just disappointed that you got no further than you did.

I respect ONLY that your own choice is not to pursue these teachings further. If you fail to find meaning, usefulness or inspiration between the pages of The Secret Doctrine, it will do you no good to study it further, especially once you have convinced yourself that everything you see is either in error, or a poor reproduction of Hindu dusprayutka, whatever that is.

In the teaching of root races, HPB elaborates on the Stanzas of Dzyan, where we are told that ~18 million years ago, Humanity first began to take physical form upon the Earth ... having been, prior to this, astral and etheric giants. We were animal-men, equivalent in our intellectual development to pre-Neanderthal cave people, with everthing from lower & higher mind, Buddhic faculty, and Nirvanic (Spiritual) consciousness being completely latent ... "slumbering," as it were.


As Humanity began to materialize into the dense physical world of gaseous, liqued & solid matter, taking FURTHER incarnation into the world(s) of form, we reached the NADIR of the wheel of both material and spiritual evolution. This was in the middle of the 3rd Root Race, and LET US SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT about why it has been called `Lemurian':
Lemuria: The ancient continent, or system of continental masses, inhabited by the various races and subraces of the third root-race. The name was adopted by theosophists from certain European zoologists, especially Sclater and Haeckel, who gave that name to a hypothetical zoologic area or sunken continent in order to explain the distribution of certain animals, especially the lemurs.​

Lemuria embraced large areas in the Pacific and Indian Oceans, and at one time extended in a horseshoe around Madagascar and South Africa (then but a fragment), while Northern Lemuria stretched into the North Atlantic and sent an arm as far as Norway. A ridge in the Atlantic 9000 feet high, runs south from a point near the British Isles, slopes towards South America, then turns southeast toward the African coast, and thence to Tristan d'Acunha. It would be wrong, however, to suppose that the configuration of Lemuria was always the same; for secular changes are continually operating in all geologic epochs. At one time it covered the whole area from the foot of the Himalayas, westward to Hardvar, eastward to Assam, southward to Southern India and Sumatra, embracing Australia on one side and Madagascar on the other, reaching nearly to the Antarctic Circle; extending far into the Pacific to Easter Island. Its remains are seen in the numerous islands included in this area.​

Lemuria, although submerged as a continental system, was not submerged as was Atlantis, but sank because of terrific seismic and volcanic activities lasting for ages. Its Atlantic portion was the geological basis for the succeeding continental system of Atlantis, which thus was rather a development of the Lemurian system than an entirely new and separate body of continental masses. (from An Online Theosophical Glossary)​
If we prefer to call this continent `Mu,' then at least we will have the recognition of one other member at CR who understands the connection, as well as countless people who can smile, in considering the more bovine association. And yet, again from the same glossary: Mu (Senzar) Destruction of temptation; a portion of the mystic word in Northern Buddhism.

What is the relationship of modern-day Africans to the 3rd Root Race Lemurians? Simply that, according to Theosophical teachings, these are the modern day descendents - all of mixed blood with the 4th, Atlantean Root Race, and also the 5th - from the LATTER half of Lemuria.

But Francis, by all means, don't let the facts stop you ... and don't you DARE consider the possibility that maybe, just maybe, you didn't quite "get" it (on either occasion, when you read HPB's magnum opus). No, enlighten us further about the foolishness and error - that is modern Theosophy.

Francis king said:
glad someone mentioned angels ... as we know, originally there were only seven of the blighters
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Gee, and I just never thought of Archangel Michael, Gabriel, Zadkiel, et al as "blighters." :(

~Zag
 
17th Angel said:
End of the day, aren't we all just crackpots? ;)
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that sums it up. debating religion is like watching I Love Lucy reruns. You know exactly what is going to happen & what Ricky is going to say to Lucy. though some do smoke more crack & pot than others.:D

now back to spirit guides, what are they.
 
Bandit!
wave2.gif

It's great to read you! :D
 
Bandit said:
that sums it up. debating religion is like watching I Love Lucy reruns. You know exactly what is going to happen & what Ricky is going to say to Lucy. though some do smoke more crack & pot than others.:D

now back to spirit guides, what are they.
Click to expand...

Hi Bandit:

I have had so many "spirit guide" experiences there are too many to enumerate. Their manifestation is always similar. They visually signal the forthcoming of some event that might be "trouble" for me. Many times birds have been bearers of these signals...doves, sparrows, usually. But most of the time it has been other humans. And for me they have always been spiritual experiences...and when I was sober. Yeah, sometimes it WAS like watching re-runs of I Love Lucy

It's happened on CR when patterns of postings seem to indicate signals to me to anticipate something that will happen in my life. Very strange. The closest that I can come to explain it in a modern metaphor would be the defunct TV series, Quantum Leap.

Of course Eastern cultures firmly believed in omen reading in order to obtain knowledge of the future, especially Chinese culture. Don't forget the oracle at Delphi who positioned her stool over a crack in the earth, inhaled the gases that welled up into her nostrils and created visions for her, and then advised the secular powers regarding the future. I don't believe in throwing bones or studying the patterns in a tortoise shell, but hey...different strokes for different folks.

flow....:)
 
Bandit said:
that sums it up. debating religion is like watching I Love Lucy reruns. You know exactly what is going to happen & what Ricky is going to say to Lucy. though some do smoke more crack & pot than others.:D

now back to spirit guides, what are they.
Click to expand...

Hey, Bandito!

Nice to see you, where ya been?

Chris
 
Re: World Teachers - who are they?

Zagreus said:
(...)
Eventually we must provide our own World Teachers, just as every other Planet in Cosmos ... but in the meantime, it would be good if we could just manage to produce the FORM - the family, the community, the sustainable, peace-loving society & civilization (all of these blueprints, or living ideal-models having long been given to us by God, with countless iterations & improvements, reminders, etc.) ... into which a Christ or Bodhisattva could incarnate - GEE, that would be convenient! ;)

But we can't seem to manage it. Twice, thus far, has an advanced Initiate been willing to undergo special, artificial hastening of his own evolution - certainly along lines which were not part of his original spiritual need, or intent - so that the Christ of the 5th Root Race could take Incarnation (and this is EXACTLY what He has done, even while it is via an Initiate, another Soul, that He manifests ... the method does not change the Effect for our little planet).
(...)
Click to expand...

Hello dear friend Zagreus. I have found a few moments ago your posts and have recognized how much indeed they are in line with my own thought. You have expressed well your views, even in things not so easy to express in words; at least I think I wouldn't be able to do it [even less in English language lol].

Anyway, my currently very limited spare time doesn't allow much to discuss on these high subjects. But, I would like request that you provide, that is if you may or if you are willing to, some more insight into this subject of the "World Teachers".

If so, may you please take into account that there is expectation, at least by some of us, that at some time there may be further developments... I'll provide two quotes to be understood by our readers at their own discretion:

« I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. » John 16:12-15
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« We may rest assured that the divine leaders of evolution made no mistake when they gave the Christian Religion to the Western World--the most advanced teaching to the most precocious among mankind. (...)
If we believe Christ's words: "My kingdom is not of this world," (kosmos, the Greek word used for "world" meaning "order of things" rather than our planet, the earth, which is called gaea), we shall know better than to look for Christ today. (...)
But we may be sure that though impostors deceive for a time, they are found out sooner or later, and their plans come to naught. Meanwhile, progression continues to bring us nearer the Aquarian Age, and a Teacher is coming to give the Christian Religion impetus in a new direction. » Max Heindel (1910s)
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Thank you in advance.
 
Tetro9,

FYI, Zagreus is an alias for another poster: AndrewX. He also went by the name taijasi. However, I haven't seen AndrewX of late. His last post was on Nov, 26, 2007. Just letting you know that your appreciation may go unnoted.

Love & peace,

Dondi
 
Thank you dear Dondi for your thoughtful attention.

No problem & no urgency too. :) In fact, revising my previous post, I see it more like an exteriorization of things that already dwell inside me and perhaps, if not coming from illusion, to be answered when prepared.

Grateful, and best wishes unto you.
In friendship, Marco
 
A virtual bow to you, Tekto9 (Marco), and to Dondi.

I perused the forum this evening, and saw your post. I'm not sure what I could say about the subject of World Teachers at the moment. But what drew me to this thread again, after seeing the title, was a play on the words "spirit guides." I found myself thinking, "No, the Spirit that guides!"

How can that which is Singular, also be plural? It seems the question that really needs answering is that of the One and the many.

If I can accept a plurality of Masters, and also a Master to Whom Masters are as disciples (are not we all?) ... then why can't the adherent of any - and every - other tradition?

It seems that in time, that is as certain as acknowledging the Magnetic Source which draws us all ...

Anyway, a Hierarchy in which Order (a Quality, or Principle) is accepted because exalted (!) - might allow for spirit guides of many positive orders (plural), as well as several negative (or unhelpful toward humanity). This is an Order in which the supersensual worlds are not unlike the sensual, in composition. There is virtue, and there is vice. There are habitualized criminals and *oppositional* elements in society, while there are also benevolent, uplifting and forward-looking forces ... active in most every situation. If nothing else, there are the divine currents of Life Itself, moving through every single particle of substance which surrounds, composes and interpenetrates us. Every `piece' of existence - Breathes

"that and 50 cents" as the saying goes ...
 
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