Hi Dondi,
Before I address the rest of your posts I'd just like to say that while we obviously come down on diffrent sides of the fence on the topic of homosexuality, I think it's important to remember that in many other things...in most...we have quite similar beliefs. You have touched my heart many many times with your beautiful posts and love of Jesus, love of God, and I don't want us to lose sight of that.
Can a person have a committed and sexual relationship with an adulteress?
Well, they can but I would say that it would not be a healthy situation for anyone involved. I think the ten commandments represent wisdom from God, and they are given to us for the purpose of us loving God and each other. I said in an earlier post that many of the commandments are at heart about love and not taking what does not belong to us. So, in adultery, we are indeed taking what does not belong to us.
I think divorce is a sad situation and I think Jesus told us not to divorce for good reason. But we also know that sometimes divorce is best for the safety and health of one or more persons involved. As in everything, we are invited by Jesus to make choices in compassion and empathy and love, and not discard people carelessly.
If you are not willing to agree that homosexual behavior is wrong, as clearly the bible states, why not go further and say that adultery is not wrong, for some people are attracted to persons who are already married? Or how about beastiality? I read in the news recently that a man paid a dowery to marry a goat! And anothet where a woman married a dolphin! Should we allow this? Or how about NAMBLA? Don't they have rights?
This is the slippery slope argument, and it holds about as much weight as saying that we should never have invented the wheel because now it's lead to global warming. All of the situations you describe above are against the commandment of love and they take what does not belong to us, they are not mutually consentable (animals and chldren can't give consent and others can't give consent on their behalf).
I understand that some people are bent toward homosexuality, but that's only because all of nature is in a fallen state, lest we forget, so just like son's of alchoholics are genetically prone to alcoholism, there maybe a genetic reason for people to apparently be born gay. But this is a genetic defect, not the norm tha God planned.
I actually can agree with this to some extent Dondi. All of us live in a fallen world and we all have to live with disorders in our lives and the lives of others. All I'm asking is that we relate to people with empathy and compassion, rather than judgment and condemnation. In some cases, like addictions, the self-destruction and harm to others merits intervention. If anyone is molesting children or hurting others, it merits intervention. Of course we need to stop predators and keep people safe. However, gluttony has also been considered a sin, yet we recognize that some forms of obesity are beyond control for genetic or psychological reasons. I don't believe we would ever tell overweight people that they are living in sin and tell them they are going to hell for being obese, or try to pass laws that limit eating. We have compassion for others, even if we do wish to see them change, and we don't give them the constant message that God hates them.
We have to look at God's intentions for us. God's Word is designed so that our minds will be renewed (Romans 12:1-2). God's Spirit transforms our hearts. If we believe that we ought to go our own way, then we are not aligning ourselves to God's perfect plan. We instead are doing what is right in our own eyes, which the bible says leads to the ways of death (Proverbs 14:12). God wants us to see blessing, but if we insist on going our own way, how can He bless us?
I agree with you here too. I'm sure Jesus was serious was telling us something important when he said "Repent! The Kingdom of Heaven is near!" Repent does mean to change our ways. To my best discernment though, homosexuality is no different than heterosexuality as a human behaviour. There are expressions of each that are destructive, and there are expressions of each that build up.
The grace of God is there to forgive the most vilest sinner. But grace is also there in order for us to be conformed in the image of Christ, the image of God. We woun't get their by kicking against the goads, no matter how right we think we are.
I know Dondi, and I pray that that is not what I am doing here. Before me is the knowledge that we have gotten past slavery, which is more or less condoned by the Bible, we've largely moved past anti-Semitism, which is easly justified in the NT, and we're moving past the subjugation of women, which is less clearly justified in some NT passages. Of all of these, discrimination against gays is the least well-supported Biblically, even if it has wide popular support. If I'm going to be wrong, I'd rather be wrong on the side of compassion.
That's really all I have to say on this subject, so you are welcome to the last word on this if you wish.
Peace,
luna
