lunamoth
Episcopalian
Good morning Dor,
Happy Birthday!
Best Regards,
Mark
It's your birthday! Happy Birthday!
And Happy Valentine's Day everyone!
Good morning Dor,
Happy Birthday!
Best Regards,
Mark
Following are select quotes and comments:What, if any, are the Christian Laws/Commandments that all Christians are obligated to follow?
Also, please explain the basis for any laws you list.
This appears to be the general concensus so far here...I tend to read that any Law is a matter of Love, Faith, and Truth... in Matthew 23:23... both with God and with people.
I think this is a key element overlooked so far by everybody else.On the lack of law or elimination of law, I tend to find a study of the word iniquity is important, which includes many verses. Jesus said a lot for law through the word iniquity. Where there is an agreement, there is law and where there is no law there is iniquity.
While I read your comment as somewhat rhetorical, I think it should be read more literal. The trouble is, in our "modern" society, adultery is almost openly condoned...how many adults do you know of 40 years of age or so working on their 4th or 5th marriage? Why are we not picketing in front of churches, Justice of Peace offices and wedding parlors against multiple marriages? Afterall, once married, always married in the eyes of G-d. Come to think of it, doesn't the Bible state that to sleep with a woman is to be married to her? So even though that person may be on their 5th marriage, counting those they have slept with out of wedlock they may be working on, oh what, for the sake of argument, say their 20th "marriage." How is this any more wise than homosexuality?If you are not willing to agree that homosexual behavior is wrong, as clearly the bible states, why not go further and say that adultery is not wrong, for some people are attracted to persons who are already married?
Absolutely!I think we're all letting ourselves off way too lightly ...
Oh goodness, Thomas! Are you sincerely advocating a Christian return to the 613 Mitzvot? Kudos if you are! Now, where do we begin???Read Matthew 5 – The Sermon on the Mount and the Beatitudes ...
"Do not think that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For amen I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot, or one tittle shall not pass of the law, till all be fulfilled. For I tell you, that unless your justice abound more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 5:17-20
Agreed. But it is imperitive we accept the words of Jesus alone in literary and cultural context without administrative interference. I grow weary of this person and that person telling me (*read that as "force feeding me") "Jesus' words say this" and "Jesus' words say that" in complete contradiction to each other.Try negotiating with Jesus. You'll find it's all on His terms, or not at all.
Oh my! Did I miss Dor's birthday? Happy Belated Birthday Dor!Good morning Dor,
Happy Birthday!![]()
i would not call it a law, rather commandment. they are two different things. christians are saved from the law by grace. we strive to keep the commandments of god and be holy as christ is holy, as we have accepted christ and the spirit fills our heart to love god and each other. when and where we fall short, christ is there to help us.Are we of consensus then? The only Law is the Greatest Commandment (Love), and the ten commandments are to inform our hearts in the Law?
So, I read here that Christians are obligated to the Golden Rule...OK, that is pretty much a given. What about the laws of the land? Haven't seen anybody mention those. And while I have seen a couple of oblique references, I don't think anybody has quite got around to listing the laws of Nature.
Dondi,
Clever, but the logic doesn't hold up
1. Appeal to nature is a logical fallacy, clever slogans do not equal truth
2. The writers of the Bible did indeed mention this but there is contention even among Christians that this is the inerrant word of God.
3. Look around the planet has over 6billion of us, I think this mission has indeed been accomplished!
4.See #2
5. Define Wrong in such a way to logically prove your contention.
i would not call it a law, rather commandment. they are two different things. christians are saved from the law by grace. we strive to keep the commandments of god and be holy as christ is holy, as we have accepted christ and the spirit fills our heart to love god and each other. when and where we fall short, christ is there to help us.
lunamoth said:Before I address the rest of your posts I'd just like to say that while we obviously come down on diffrent sides of the fence on the topic of homosexuality, I think it's important to remember that in many other things...in most...we have quite similar beliefs. You have touched my heart many many times with your beautiful posts and love of Jesus, love of God, and I don't want us to lose sight of that.
I apologize in advance if it seems I'm picking on you, but I gotta comment on this...When you fix your plumbing at home, do you try to screw a female end into another female end, or a male end into another male end? Doesn't work to well, do it?
Bwahahahaha!Kindest Regards, Luna and all!
Oh Luna! You little instigator you!
Yes, that is a good point. Cyberpi emphasized iniquity, guess I would emphasize equity as well.J23 said:Re: cyberpi's post on iniquity:
I think this is a key element overlooked so far by everybody else.
Excellent point.While I read your comment as somewhat rhetorical, I think it should be read more literal. The trouble is, in our "modern" society, adultery is almost openly condoned...how many adults do you know of 40 years of age or so working on their 4th or 5th marriage? Why are we not picketing in front of churches, Justice of Peace offices and wedding parlors against multiple marriages? Afterall, once married, always married in the eyes of G-d. Come to think of it, doesn't the Bible state that to sleep with a woman is to be married to her? So even though that person may be on their 5th marriage, counting those they have slept with out of wedlock they may be working on, oh what, for the sake of argument, say their 20th "marriage." How is this any more wise than homosexuality?
Thank you Juan. This is similar to the point made by earl in another thread. I would say that wifebeating is not just an unwise lifestyle, but a situation the merits intervention...but this just further illustrates the way out of the garden when we judge and condemn others, rather than listening to them.Now, I want to be clear...*I am not speaking in favor of homosexuality*...I do think it is an unwise lifestyle. So is multiple marriage an unwise lifestyle. So is smoking marijuana an unwise lifestyle. So is alcoholism an unwise lifestyle. So is wife beating an unwise lifestyle. Etc., etc., etc... Homosexuality needs to be seen in a proper perspective, rather than being an easy target to inflate out of proportion to project unmerited and unwarranted prejudicial bigoted hatred onto, masquerading as G-d's will. Let G-d do the judging and dealing of reward and punishment, let the individual answer to G-d on terms between them (G-d and the person). You can't save anybody but your own hide, nobody else can save you. It is all between G-d and each person.
I know Dondi, and I don't dismiss what you have to say at all.Sorry, luna, I didn't intend to get into an arguement. You asked why christians get bent up over homosexuality and I replied with the reasons.
As I've said, we must be led by the Spirit. But God will not contradict His Word. I'm not the Holy Spirit, but the only thing I say is that one must pray and be open to the leading of the the Holy Spirit. If one is really seeking God's will, then God is going to send that Holy Spirit conviction in areas of our lives that we may know what needs changing. Conviction is not meant for condemnation, but for correction. If one has earnestly sought the Lord in a certain area and receives no conviction, then there is nothing anyone can say to make them change anyway. It is God who is the change agent, not me or anyone else. All I can do is point at what appears to be the plain command of the Lord in His Word. And if one cannot agree with that plain reading, then one will try to justify it by trying to read what one wants it to say, or say that it was for that culture and not today, or just dismiss it as an error in the scriptures.
Frankly, I don't see how people can read around the issue. True, we are free from penalty the Law, through Christ. But Jesus never said that the Law was done away with. In fact, I think Jesus was much more strict in His interpretation of the Law, going beyond the mere act of adultery and into the thoughts of the heart. Basically, you are what you think.
Sorry, luna, I didn't intend to get into an arguement. You asked why christians get bent up over homosexuality and I replied with the reasons.
As I've said, we must be led by the Spirit. But God will not contradict His Word. I'm not the Holy Spirit, but the only thing I say is that one must pray and be open to the leading of the the Holy Spirit. If one is really seeking God's will, then God is going to send that Holy Spirit conviction in areas of our lives that we may know what needs changing. Conviction is not meant for condemnation, but for correction. If one has earnestly sought the Lord in a certain area and receives no conviction, then there is nothing anyone can say to make them change anyway. It is God who is the change agent, not me or anyone else. All I can do is point at what appears to be the plain command of the Lord in His Word. And if one cannot agree with that plain reading, then one will try to justify it by trying to read what one wants it to say, or say that it was for that culture and not today, or just dismiss it as an error in the scriptures.
Frankly, I don't see how people can read around the issue. True, we are free from penalty the Law, through Christ. But Jesus never said that the Law was done away with. In fact, I think Jesus was much more strict in His interpretation of the Law, going beyond the mere act of adultery and into the thoughts of the heart. Basically, you are what you think.
Here's a thought I read from another forum...
Christians (human nature I think) seem to be most intolerant of sins which they have little or no chance of committing.
As one's sexual preference is usually decided and not open to debate, this makes homosexuality a natural target for people who can then "[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican".[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Thoughts?[/FONT]
How do you know that these certain Christians haven't had struggles with the issues themselves? Many ex-[insert sinner here] are some of the strongest opponents of [insert sin here].
Good morning Dor,
Happy Birthday!
Best Regards,
Mark
It's your birthday! Happy Birthday!
And Happy Valentine's Day everyone!
Oh my! Did I miss Dor's birthday? Happy Belated Birthday Dor!
How so?
"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it..." - Genesis 1:27-28
Simple biology, my friend. In the natural world, man cannot reproduce unless there is a male and a female, clever slogan or not.
Biblical inerrancy is not the issue here. The question Lunamoth asked is why Christians get so bent up over homosexuality. Most Christians in this arena are going to content that the bible is accurate in this area, since most denominations view the bible a inerrant.
No thanks to homosexuals.
See #2 response.
When you fix your plumbing at home, do you try to screw a female end into another female end, or a male end into another male end? Doesn't work to well, do it?
In today's circumstances I would agree with you, but I put that in there for a specific purpose.I would say that wifebeating is not just an unwise lifestyle, but a situation the merits intervention...
Yes, I agree, but G-d has a lifetime to work with, and the timetable is His. You might see an instant change...*poof*...instant perfect Christian. Me, I've been a sincere Christian for 25 years or so, and I am still a work in progress.if something you are doing is sinful in your life, and you hide it and keep that door closed from god, yet let him in other parts of your life, then you have serious issues. if you are going to accept christ in to your life he wants to cleanse all of you, not just what you want--even the most dirtiest parts that you are so ashamed of and struggling with.
Here's a thought I read from another forum...
Christians (human nature I think) seem to be most intolerant of sins which they have little or no chance of committing.
As one's sexual preference is usually decided and not open to debate, this makes homosexuality a natural target for people who can then "[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican".