Debating JW faith

Status
Not open for further replies.
Yahweh or "Jehovah" is used for both God the Father and of God the Son. Regardless of whether it is misinterpreted or misunderstood, the fact remains.
 
and the vowel points are from the word "le-'olam", meaning "eternal" or "forever". so actually, it is a rather large mistake by the j-wits to suggest that that is the only real Name. but then again, i don't know what i'm supposed to expect...

b'shalom

bananabrain
 
How can JWs say that Jesus didn't really rise from the dead physically. When He appeared to His disciples after the Resurrection, He had Thomas reach in and feel the nailprints on His hands and the spear thrust on His side (John 20:27-28), to which Thomas exclaimed, "My LORD and my God!". Then another occasion, the disciples thought they had seen a spirit, but Jesus assured them that He had flesh and bones, stating, "for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have". Furthermore to prove it, He even ate fish and honeycomb with them (Luke 24:39-43)

Frankly, I don't know how one gets around the fact that, according to the scriptures, Jesus was raised physically.
 
Re: What will WE be Like in Heaven?

pattimax said:
So sad. I am very,very sorry they have you so programmed. How long have you been a JW and where was your starting point?
Click to expand...
dont feel sorry for me, i am glad that my mind has been washed clean of all the false religious doctrines that used to be in there . but now it is full of pure teachings based on Gods word the bible ...nice....:)
 
Quahom1 said:
Moved the posts to a seperate thread. However, if the JWs complain, this thread will be removed.

v/r

Joshua
Click to expand...
the way i look at it ,is that just as the early christians were made fun of, so Jehovahs witnesses are . and lets face it we do have the same teachings as the early christians did , so it is no big surprise .
because we have become a theatrical spectacle to the world, and to angels, and to men. hebrews 10;33
 
Dondi said:
How can JWs say that Jesus didn't really rise from the dead physically. When He appeared to His disciples after the Resurrection, He had Thomas reach in and feel the nailprints on His hands and the spear thrust on His side (John 20:27-28), to which Thomas exclaimed, "My LORD and my God!". Then another occasion, the disciples thought they had seen a spirit, but Jesus assured them that He had flesh and bones, stating, "for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have". Furthermore to prove it, He even ate fish and honeycomb with them (Luke 24:39-43)

Frankly, I don't know how one gets around the fact that, according to the scriptures, Jesus was raised physically.
Click to expand...
Was​
Jesus raised in a body of flesh, and does he have such a body in heaven now?​

1 Pet. 3:18: "Christ died once for all time concerning sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, that he might lead you to God, he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit ["by the Spirit," KJ; "in the spirit," RS, NE, Dy, JB]." (At his resurrection from the dead, Jesus was brought forth with a spirit body. In the Greek text the words "flesh" and "spirit" are put in contrast to each other, and both are in the dative case; so, if a translator uses the rendering "by the spirit" he should also consistently say "by the flesh," or if he uses "in the flesh" he should also say "in the spirit.")
Acts 10:40, 41: "God raised this One [Jesus Christ] up on the third day and granted him to become manifest, not to all the people, but to witnesses appointed beforehand by God." (Why did not others see him too? Because he was a spirit creature and when, as angels had done in the past, he materialized fleshly bodies to make himself visible, he did so only in the presence of his disciples.)
1 Cor. 15:45: "It is even so written: ‘The first man Adam became a living soul.’ The last Adam [Jesus Christ, who was perfect as was Adam when created] became a life-giving spirit."​
What​
​
does Luke 24:36-39 mean regarding the body in which Jesus was resurrected?​

Luke 24:36-39: "While they [the disciples] were speaking of these things he himself stood in their midst and said to them: ‘May you have peace.’ But because they were terrified, and had become frightened, they were imagining they beheld a spirit. So he said to them: ‘Why are you troubled, and why is it doubts come up in your hearts? See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; feel me and see, because a spirit does not have flesh and bones just as you behold that I have.’"
Humans cannot see spirits, so the disciples evidently thought they were seeing an apparition or a vision. (Compare Mark 6:49, 50.) Jesus assured them that he was no apparition; they could see his body of flesh and could touch him, feeling the bones; he also ate in their presence. Similarly, in the past, angels had materialized in order to be seen by men; they had eaten, and some had even married and fathered children. (Gen. 6:4; 19:1-3) Following his resurrection, Jesus did not always appear in the same body of flesh (perhaps to reinforce in their minds the fact that he was then a spirit), and so he was not immediately recognized even by his close associates. (John 20:14, 15; 21:4-7) However, by his repeatedly appearing to them in materialized bodies and then saying and doing things that they would identify with the Jesus they knew, he strengthened their faith in the fact that he truly had been resurrected from the dead.
If the disciples had actually seen Jesus in the body that he now has in heaven, Paul would not later have referred to the glorified Christ as being "the exact representation of [God’s] very being," because God is a Spirit and has never been in the flesh.—Heb. 1:3; compare 1 Timothy 6:16.​
When reading the reports of Jesus’ postresurrection appearances, we are helped to understand them properly if we keep in mind 1 Peter 3:18 and 1 Corinthians 15:45,
 
mee said:
the way i look at it ,is that just as the early christians were made fun of, so Jehovahs witnesses are . and lets face it we do have the same teachings as the early christians did , so it is no big surprise .
because we have become a theatrical spectacle to the world, and to angels, and to men. hebrews 10;33
Click to expand...
that would be a defense mechanism used to validate your current course of action, you want it to be right, even if it is wrong you will convince yourself, basically it is denial. while you think "made fun of" it helps you validate your thinking which is given to you by a magazine of anonymous authors and then associating yourself with the early christians which reemphasizes your reasoning.
what is really going on is people who hear exactly what you are saying and see how you have strayed off course, and out of brother love are trying to show you why and where you strayed off course because these anonymous authors of watchtower magazine have got you repeating things over and over so you convince yourself and stop anything else from sinking in. i think pretty much everyone here sees it, but you. this happens to many groups of people. the last group i believe all killed themselves thinking a ufo was behind a comet and it was going to pick them up and take them to heaven or something. even when scientists with poweful telescopes told them there was no ufo, they just rationalized the actual truth away so they could believe what they thought was real and stick with their group of friends that gave them social acceptance.
 
But Jesus even spoke in the context of His body in John 2:

"Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
But he spake of the temple of his body. When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said." - John 2:19-22

Paul, in I Corinthians 15, spoke of two types of bodies. That which was corruptable or natural body and that which is incorruptable or spiritual body. Notice he didn't say spirit, but spiritual body. It is a body that has been glorified, not like these bodies we have now that are doomed to die, but bodies that will last forever. I don't understand the mechanics of it all, but somehow God is able to take the material body we have now and transform
it.

"In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." - I Corinthians 15:52-53

God made us to have bodies. I do not see that changing in the hereafter. We are not going to be some disembodied, etheral spirit floating around the cosmos. Even though we are entered into our rest, we will still be experiencing all kinds of things God has prepared for us:

"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - I Corinthians 2:9

Now I can imagine quite a lot. I'm surly interested in what kind of culinary delights God has in store for us. he already has a Wedding Feast planned, and trees that bear all manner of fruits each month. I would think that we would need to have some kind of physicality to be able to eat, don't you?





 
BlaznFattyz said:
that would be a defense mechanism used to validate your current course of action, you want it to be right, even if it is wrong you will convince yourself, basically it is denial. while you think "made fun of" it helps you validate your thinking which is given to you by a magazine of anonymous authors and then associating yourself with the early christians which reemphasizes your reasoning.
what is really going on is people who hear exactly what you are saying and see how you have strayed off course, and out of brother love are trying to show you why and where you strayed off course because these anonymous authors of watchtower magazine have got you repeating things over and over so you convince yourself and stop anything else from sinking in. i think pretty much everyone here sees it, but you. this happens to many groups of people. the last group i believe all killed themselves thinking a ufo was behind a comet and it was going to pick them up and take them to heaven or something. even when scientists with poweful telescopes told them there was no ufo, they just rationalized the actual truth away so they could believe what they thought was real and stick with their group of friends that gave them social acceptance.
Click to expand...

Mee, I don't think any Christians are trying to make fun of you. The JW's are partially responsible for the Christian cartoon. I really wish you would consider the things people are telling you. Get beyond your usual defenses and consider the fact that you have been duped. You know, you are not alone.

So would you please answer my questions, when did you become a Jehovah's Witness? Where were you when you started? Depression can make you extremely vulnerable and susceptible to all kinds of things.
 
mee said:
and lets face it we do have the same teachings as the early christians did , so it is no big surprise .
Click to expand...

You do not have the same teachings...the early Christians knew what the Holy Spirit was and it was inside them and the Holy Spirit worked through them. Jesus Christ did not leave God's active force.

So would you please answer my questions, when did you become a Jehovah's Witness? Where were you when you started? Depression can make you extremely vulnerable and susceptible to all kinds of things.
 
pattimax said:
Depression can make you extremely vulnerable and susceptible to all kinds of things.
Click to expand...
Significant point...a number of former born again folks and baptists...have indicated that that was exactly the reason they walked into the river or stood up at the revival....that they were down and out and needed it at that time...they traveled that road for years and then somehow got unborn...
 
wil said:
Significant point...a number of former born again folks and baptists...have indicated that that was exactly the reason they walked into the river or stood up at the revival....that they were down and out and needed it at that time...they traveled that road for years and then somehow got unborn...
Click to expand...

Yes...but the number of people who remained true is much, much larger. Don't confuse the issue, the fact is that true followers of Christ are in line with His teachings. JW's are not.

When you have experienced an incredibly sweet, intimate, and totally fulfilling relationship with the Lord, anything else feels like a cheap replacement. Which is a big problem for Jehovahs Witnesses, they have a relationship with the Lord, only it is through the distorted lens of fellow cult members and they see mainstream Christianity as a cheap replacement.

As for getting unborn... that is impossible.
 
BlaznFattyz said:
that would be a defense mechanism used to validate your current course of action, you want it to be right, even if it is wrong you will convince yourself, basically it is denial. while you think "made fun of" it helps you validate your thinking which is given to you by a magazine of anonymous authors and then associating yourself with the early christians which reemphasizes your reasoning.
what is really going on is people who hear exactly what you are saying and see how you have strayed off course, and out of brother love are trying to show you why and where you strayed off course because these anonymous authors of watchtower magazine have got you repeating things over and over so you convince yourself and stop anything else from sinking in. i think pretty much everyone here sees it, but you. this happens to many groups of people. the last group i believe all killed themselves thinking a ufo was behind a comet and it was going to pick them up and take them to heaven or something. even when scientists with poweful telescopes told them there was no ufo, they just rationalized the actual truth away so they could believe what they thought was real and stick with their group of friends that gave them social acceptance.
Click to expand...
We must obey God as ruler rather than men. ACTS 5;29 This is what Jehovahs witnesses do. we stick to the teachings of Jesus just as Jehovah told us to .
How the apostles were blessed for maintaining that God’s authority is supreme! True Christians today have the same attitude. Jehovah’s Witnesses continue to look to Jehovah as their Supreme Ruler. If commanded to act contrary to God’s directives, they respond as the apostles did: "We must obey God as ruler rather than men." and yes it brings with it ridicule as is quite plain to see . but we dont need to kill our selves , why would we do that when we have the hope of inheriting PARADISE EARTH MATTHEW 5;5
"Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth.
But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth,​

And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace. PSALM 37;11
 
pattimax said:
Mee, I don't think any Christians are trying to make fun of you. The JW's are partially responsible for the Christian cartoon. I really wish you would consider the things people are telling you. Get beyond your usual defenses and consider the fact that you have been duped. You know, you are not alone.

So would you please answer my questions, when did you become a Jehovah's Witness? Where were you when you started? Depression can make you extremely vulnerable and susceptible to all kinds of things.
Click to expand...
I am glad to say that i dont suffer from depression , and never have suffered from it , it must be a difficult thing to live with. but it will be good when there is no more sickness to contend with .
And no resident will say: "I am sick." The people that are dwelling in [the land] will be those pardoned for their error.isaiah 33;24
 
pattimax said:
the early Christians knew what the Holy Spirit was

quote]
they certainly did know what the holy spirit was.
Jehovah’s spirit produces good fruitage
the activities of holy spirit are in their way more wonderful than miracles.
Click to expand...
 
pattimax said:
When you have experienced an incredibly sweet, intimate, and totally fulfilling relationship with the Lord, anything else feels like a cheap replacement. Which is a big problem for Jehovahs Witnesses, they have a relationship with the Lord, only it is through the distorted lens of fellow cult members and they see mainstream Christianity as a cheap replacement.
Click to expand...
yes i would agree, when a person has found the truth inline with Jehovah and his purpose for the earth ,it is very good indeed. and being part of that world wide unity is very good indeed also.
"Look! How good and how pleasant it is for brothers to dwell together in unity!"—PSALM 133:1.
The key factor for their peaceful attitude is the idea to follow already now the principles revealed in the Bible." Indeed, the Witnesses are united worldwide through the divine teaching of the Creator, Jehovah God.
 
pattimax said:
BTW- grow up.
Click to expand...

What the hell are you on about? How about you grow up. KTHX! :D

pattimax said:
What is your definition of "interfaith"?
Click to expand...

Mine? is this about -my- definition or the JW as a whole in definiton? Which, Mee is apart of.... I am reading his "rules" from his site...... So what my definition is, doesn't count and doesn't even come into this... :)

All my ex JW friends... Would always be concerned when I was on forums like this... Because in their eyes you're all wrong... :) And surronding myself with people that walk hand in hand with false religion is DANGGGGGEROUS!! OOOH BABY!! *slaps himself* Anyway... You don't put yourself into temptation by "mingling" with the false relgion type in a place such as this... That's why it kind of confuses me that Mee you are SO brainwashed... And you ARE.... That I find it suprising you still mingle with the unclean ;\
 
17th Angel said:
What the hell are you on about? How about you grow up. KTHX! :D



Mine? is this about -my- definition or the JW as a whole in definiton? Which, Mee is apart of.... I am reading his "rules" from his site...... So what my definition is, doesn't count and doesn't even come into this... :)
Click to expand...
Jehovah’s​
Witnesses​

Definition: The worldwide Christian society of people who actively bear witness regarding Jehovah God and his purposes affecting mankind. They base their beliefs solely on the Bible.............and its very good ..
​
What​
beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses set them apart as different from other religions?
(1) Bible: Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that the entire Bible is the inspired Word of God, and instead of adhering to a creed based on human tradition, they hold to the Bible as the standard for all their beliefs.​
(2)​
God: They worship Jehovah as the only true God and freely speak to others about him and his loving purposes toward mankind. Anyone who publicly witnesses about Jehovah is usually identified as belonging to the one group—"Jehovah’s Witnesses."​
(3)​
Jesus Christ: They believe, not that Jesus Christ is part of a Trinity, but that, as the Bible says, he is the Son of God, the first of God’s creations; that he had a prehuman existence and that his life was transferred from heaven to the womb of a virgin, Mary; that his perfect human life laid down in sacrifice makes possible salvation to eternal life for those who exercise faith; that Christ is actively ruling as King, with God-given authority over all the earth since 1914.​
(4)​
God’s Kingdom: They believe that God’s Kingdom is the only hope for mankind; that it is a real government; that it will soon destroy the present wicked system of things, including all human governments, and that it will produce a new system in which righteousness will prevail.​
(5)​
Heavenly life: They believe that 144,000 spirit-anointed Christians will share with Christ in his heavenly Kingdom, ruling as kings with him. They do not believe that heaven is the reward for everyone who is "good."​
(6)​
The earth: They believe that God’s original purpose for the earth will be fulfilled; that the earth will be completely populated by worshipers of Jehovah and that these will be able to enjoy eternal life in human perfection; that even the dead will be raised to an opportunity to share in these blessings.​
(7)​
Death: They believe that the dead are conscious of absolutely nothing; that they are experiencing neither pain nor pleasure in some spirit realm; that they do not exist except in God’s memory, so hope for their future life lies in a resurrection from the dead.​
(8)​
Last days: They believe that we are living now, since 1914, in the last days of this wicked system of things; that some who saw the events of 1914 will also see the complete destruction of the present wicked world; that lovers of righteousness will survive into a cleansed earth.​
(9)​
Separate from the world: They earnestly endeavor to be no part of the world, as Jesus said would be true of his followers. They show genuine Christian love for their neighbors, but they do not share in the politics or the wars of any nation. They provide for the material needs of their families but shun the world’s avid pursuit of material things and personal fame and its excessive indulgence in pleasure.​
(10)​
Apply Bible counsel: They believe that it is important to apply the counsel of God’s Word in everyday life now—at home, in school, in business, in their congregation. Regardless of a person’s past way of life, he may become one of Jehovah’s Witnesses if he abandons practices condemned by God’s Word and applies its godly counsel. But if anyone thereafter makes a practice of adultery, fornication, homosexuality, drug abuse, drunkenness, lying, or stealing, he will be disfellowshipped from the organization.​
(The above list briefly states some outstanding beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses but by no means all the points on which their beliefs are different from those of other groups.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top