Imagine there's no heaven...

Dondi said:
If you knew without a shadow of a doubt that there was no heaven or hell, though there was still a God, that your body would die and that would be it, your state being like before you were ever concieved, non-existant, with no hope of any resurrection, would you still, despite the inevitable, live the Christian life? Why or why not?
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Since energy cannot be created nor destroyed, only changed, my life essence would continue on in some form or fashion. I'd hate for it to be negative energy, resonating forever into the cosmos. Also, as long as there is a God that "remembers me", then I'd never truly cease to exist, so again, I would hope I was remembered in a good light by the Almighty.

So, I would hope God's memories of "me" would be fond ones, and not one's causing remorse, and regret.

v/r

Joshua
 
Quahom1 said:
Since energy cannot be created nor destroyed, only changed, my life essence would continue on in some form or fashion. I'd hate for it to be negative energy, resonating forever into the cosmos. Also, as long as there is a God that "remembers me", then I'd never truly cease to exist, so again, I would hope I was remembered in a good light by the Almighty.

So, I would hope God's memories of "me" would be fond ones, and not one's causing remorse, and regret.

v/r

Joshua
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Wouldn't that be a positive impact on the universe? (having God remember you fondly) I thought this question had parameters.
 
pattimax said:
Wouldn't that be a positive impact on the universe? (having God remember you fondly) I thought this question had parameters.
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lol, putting parameters around the laws of physics and God? A bit hard to do, don't you think? ;)

Perhaps the question wasn't thought quite through...
 
Dondi said:
If you knew without a shadow of a doubt that there was no heaven or hell, though there was still a God, that your body would die and that would be it, your state being like before you were ever concieved, non-existant, with no hope of any resurrection, would you still, despite the inevitable, live the Christian life? Why or why not?
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These parameters.
 
pattimax said:
These parameters.
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Are an impossiblity, unless the originator considers the Omnipotent God, not...

The exercise is one of futility, I should think. If we were to consider man like a mortal animal, then perhaps...and how should an animal behave, knowing it has nothing but this time now? Just like they do. Those domesticated form friendships with man, risk their lives for man, and those wild would do as they do, in order to continue the species and "their lineage, thus continual existence".

One thing animals do not have the humans would have (have even now), is anger and rage. At least not the preconceived kind...

v/r

Joshua
 
Quahom1 said:
Are an impossiblity, unless the originator considers the Omnipotent God, not...

The exercise is one of futility, I should think.

If we were to consider man like a mortal animal, then perhaps...and how should an animal behave, knowing it has nothing but this time now? Just like they do. Those domesticated form friendships with man, risk their lives for man, and those wild would do as they do, in order to continue the species and "their lineage, thus continual existence".

One thing animals do not have the humans would have (have even now), is anger and rage. At least not the preconceived kind...

v/r

Joshua
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...I wanted to keep it in the realm of human beings.
 
The exercise is one of futility, I should think.
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Is it?

Or rather is it a test to see what we are really made of? Would we act the same toward God and toward other people if all we have is this life? Wasn't it Jesus who said, "For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it."? Fact is deep down, we as Christians want to save our own skin, ever hoping we will find ourselves standing in the presence of God when we cross over. We take it by faith, but I think we also sometimes take it for granted.

But what are we really saving ourselves for? The scriptures tell us that we will be changed in a twinkling of an eye, but what part of ourselves will change? Will there be anything that will remain the same?

Well then by virtue of "humanity", one cannot imagine there's no Heaven...
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I think the athiests would be happy to disagree with you.


But as I think about it. I really wonder if I would stick with the teachings of Jesus. It would be a tremendous temptation to go my own way. After all, if this is all there is, as far as the human perspective is concerned, then what would I be accountable for? While there would be no heaven to reach for, there would also be no judgement, no fire, no darkness, no hell either. There only fear of death would be the fear of non-existence. We might as well eat, drink, and be merry.

I would hope that I would live a dignified life, not in wantoness and careless excesses that would threaten to shorten the precious little life that I have been afforded. I would hope that I would value the royal law to love my neighbor as myself, simply because it would be conducive to peaceful living to abide by that precept. But I fear that I would fail even that in many instances (as I already do even with the hope of eternity).
 
Dondi said:
If you knew without a shadow of a doubt that there was no heaven or hell, though there was still a God, that your body would die and that would be it, your state being like before you were ever concieved, non-existant, with no hope of any resurrection, would you still, despite the inevitable, live the Christian life? Why or why not?
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I admit I am being lazy (as per usual) and haven't read any of t he posts in this thread... But I would expect the majority of christians in whatever shape form they claim, to say that they would still do what they do. I know some are christian because of some fear and worry about being punished lol, and others in it for spiritual material gain... Where there is a reward to envoke them. But a side from this you have those that are, happy... With how they are, they wake up and they see what others do not see... The glorious sunny day, birds singing, they are thankful for another day of life, they go about their business, they help people they talk to people and just do good deeds, that make them feel good.... Why would you want to stop doing things that were good and made you feel great? Also most rules/laws in the bible are for "your own good" health diet and such... You live a better life this way. *shruggs*
 
Romans 8 comes to mind

Those in the flesh cannot please God.

and

Our Spirits groan

all of creation groans in anticipation for the coming of the Lord despairing of its corruption..

The Holy Spirit groans for us in intercession..

How can we of the Spirit sit comfortably here?

Jesus said to pray for His quick return.. Why would we do that if we are supposed to enjoy this life?

Just some thoughts ...

also Im at work so I cant access crosswalk.. there is also something somewhere about all this being like vapor..
 
John 13:15-17 For I have given you an example, that you should do as I have done to you. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him. If you know these things, happy you are if you do them.
 
wil said:
It was one of many anthems of an age. It wasn't anti-Christian, or anti-Religion...it was this thread and others like it...Imagine....What if...

We think about war now...about 3,000 dying in Iraq, or 9/11...think about tens of thousands in Vietnam...or hundreds of thousands in WWII...those wars like today really made a dent in people's psyche...they questioned G-d...they questioned religioin....the questioned our gov't..

But truth is...as is stated in another thread...this is the most peaceful and prosperous time this planet has ever had...hence our opportunity and time to question and contemplate.

Despite the murders and killings and wars...this is the most peaceful....despite the current level of famine and poverty...this is the most prosperous...fewer die of starvation now then ever before..

On earth these are the best days...since the allegorical garden...you are living in a slice of heaven right now...the closest we've been since creation!
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You are quite right Wil that that was an anthem of the age, (guess it wasn't pattimax's age:D ). The age as the song was about questioning insititutional power including that of the churches. The age was in part about honoring the humanity of all and it seems we still haven't figured that one out. Of course, if we want to go off on a tangent about whether we think Christianity is too "other worldly" in its practice and whether that was actually Jesus' message, I could easily go there. have a good one, earl
 
earl said:
You are quite right Wil that that was an anthem of the age, (guess it wasn't pattimax's age:D ). The age as the song was about questioning insititutional power including that of the churches. The age was in part about honoring the humanity of all and it seems we still haven't figured that one out. Of course, if we want to go off on a tangent about whether we think Christianity is too "other worldly" in its practice and whether that was actually Jesus' message, I could easily go there. have a good one, earl
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As soon as I said it, I realized it wasn't very nice and I took it back. I apologize.

At one time that song said a lot. Then I realized what was unsaid is more important.
 
Faithfulservant said:
Romans 8 comes to mind

Those in the flesh cannot please God.

and

Our Spirits groan

all of creation groans in anticipation for the coming of the Lord despairing of its corruption..

The Holy Spirit groans for us in intercession..

How can we of the Spirit sit comfortably here?

Jesus said to pray for His quick return.. Why would we do that if we are supposed to enjoy this life?

Just some thoughts ...

also Im at work so I cant access crosswalk.. there is also something somewhere about all this being like vapor..
Click to expand...

Jesus said:

"The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." - John 10:10

I don't see why we would have to wait around for this abundant life to come, I think it is already here. Yes, we have to contend with the thieves and the killers and the destroyers, but that should deter us from pursuing the life in Christ now.

BTW, some of those thieves, killers, and destroyers are/were Christians. Are you up to living in eternity with them?
 
Dondi said:
But what are we really saving ourselves for? The scriptures tell us that we will be changed in a twinkling of an eye, but what part of ourselves will change? Will there be anything that will remain the same?

But as I think about it. I really wonder if I would stick with the teachings of Jesus. It would be a tremendous temptation to go my own way. After all, if this is all there is, as far as the human perspective is concerned, then what would I be accountable for? While there would be no heaven to reach for, there would also be no judgement, no fire, no darkness, no hell either. There only fear of death would be the fear of non-existence. We might as well eat, drink, and be merry.

But I fear that I would fail even that in many instances (as I already do even with the hope of eternity).[/quote]

This question is much like your other one concerning the law of love.

Originally Posted by Dondi
Depends if you can fulfill the law of love or not. What do you think?


I thought part of fulfilling the law of love is realizing that you need Jesus and you cannot do without him, knowing what he has done for you and why. Therefore, you love him with all of your heart, soul, and mind, and of course, you love your neighbor as yourself.

The last statement you made is the reason to be a follower of Jesus.
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