Forum banning decisions, etc

Well, this time it was no secret. I consider that a step in a positive direction. Thanks Brian.

Hopefully not the last or final step. A fire was lit with someone, stoked, and then thrown out the window. Is that a good thing? No... I don't think so. If anyone, Niranjan needed this forum. ;) When I go back and read the two threads that were closed, and I scan them for the sharp comments about the other person and the personal adjectives that people just could not let go of... if niranjan was banned, then I see that Tao_Equus, Juantoo3, and 17th Angel should equally be banned from CR. :(

You guys broke the golden rule right along with niranjan. Before pointing out where I think the golden rules was broken... I'd ask anyone to show me where someone could have quenched the fire with Niranjan without someone getting banned. Because if somebody can not find another way to quench that fire, or to help others identify that there is no argument that they can not walk away from, then I know that it will happen again and again.

Juantoo3, I don't understand what you wanted me to help with yesterday morning. I had to work and I had not even read those threads. But when there are three to six people conversing with someone, it is not going to help them to have another person to contend with. Niranjan became too popular. If he were left alone there was no fire. I was planning on interacting with him more sometime when the dust settled, but now I can't. I think that patience would have helped. I realize that conversing with some people requires more patience than others, and I understand that Niranjan expressed his hatred or bias over a number of things. I saw that I had plenty of differences with him. While I don't understand some of the agendas; regardless, I submit that a lot more patience was needed.

Brian, how about a temporary ban? Like say one day or one week on the first offense? More like a timeout.
 
cyberpi said:
Well, this time it was no secret. I consider that a step in a positive direction. Thanks Brian.
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No problem.

cyberpi said:
When I go back and read the two threads that were closed, and I scan them for the sharp comments about the other person and the personal adjectives that people just could not let go of... if niranjan was banned, then I see that Tao_Equus, Juantoo3, and 17th Angel should equally be banned from CR. :(
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I removed a string of posts from both threads which were nothing more than personal insults.

Also - if a single member manages to create a disturbance pretty much everywhere they post, usually from throwing out insults first, then I can't really blame any other member for reacting.

Someone who goes around throwing first punches can't cry foul when other people react to it.

cyberpi said:
If he were left alone there was no fire. I was planning on interacting with him more sometime when the dust settled, but now I can't. I think that patience would have helped.
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If someone joins a community, but can only be a constructive part of it by not interacting with members, then there's a potential problem from the start.

As for whether patience would have helped - I think a lot of people tried to be patient, but when someone simply posts in an inflammatory manner across the boards, the overall interests of the community need considering.

2c.
 
If I remember correct niranjan was upto something like 260 posts...no stranger to the site or discussion. And then began on a tangent.

I also would have loved to seen that soul calmed, there was definitely some trouble there....but I don't think you'll actually find that as one of the purposes of this sight...more interfaith discussion and dialogue...which he really didn't want to do anymore.

Many of his threads that were started were ignored...I think he found a couple buttons and rolled with it.

As for sites which display those banned...take a look at evilbible.com you'll notice my name with a big red circle with a line through it as an avatar, actually, I was banned er...three times. They really can't stand a liberal christian over there any more than some can here:D

Actually that is not true, I've only been in one self imposed exile here... and a couple slaps on the wrist....possibly instigated some keyboard or other material damage on the other end of the line occasionally....

I'd like to apologize for that.
 
I said:
Also - if a single member manages to create a disturbance pretty much everywhere they post, usually from throwing out insults first, then I can't really blame any other member for reacting.
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Well that is precisely what I was going to bring up. I see then that Niranjan was wrongly banned by your words, because while he offered a number of unpopular generalizations and quotes, along with national pride, I see that it was other people who threw out the first personal insults at him. He glanced a few of those off but he slowly reciprocated and then it ratcheted upwards. While I would say that niranjan was wrong, the first personal insults that I see on those threads did not come from him. That concerns me. Somehow there was a free license to insult him. Regardless, I suggest that the other people who reacted should not have been laying down more insults either. Niranjan was teamed against in the end and had a mob insulting him.

Before that Niranjan was popular, albeit some for being controversial, but I see some extraordinary things in some of his words. Good things. In fact, a couple of his words relate directly to the overall message that I'm trying to put forward here. One was deep, deep into the spirit of the Abrahamic religions and one that irks me when alleged Christians don't get it. If anyone here sees that God talks through people, then I suggest a much closer look. Also, several people thanked him for some of his posts and conversational perspective, including Juantoo3 initially. Look past his natural reaction to being insulted.
 
It would seem that there is a hierarchical pecking order here, the top tier of which is exempted from what is expected from the lower tier. And then there are certain folks who seem to expect some modicum of obesience from the rest in deference to their self-perceived position in the aristocracy of the forum. I find this endlessly interesting to observe.
 
Cyberpi,

My first post in regard to Niranjan was to ask that people give him a fair hearing. It soon became clear to me that giving a fair hearing was something Niranjan himself was clearly incapable of. Increasingly he was demanding that others conform to his thinking, which was revealing itself to be ever more extremist and worst of all supremacist. As I stated elsewhere I can tolerate anything but intollerance. And so I reacted.

You may like to paint Niranjan as provoked and with his back against the wall from several fronts. And I can see your point. Toward the end he was indeed under counter-attack from a few of us and nobody was coming to support him. But why? My own thinking was that he had burnt any bridges. You may see it that perhaps myself or another was first to throw an insult. Is that because it supports your contention here or because it is a fact? I nor anyone else started any thread to promote a racist insult in the way he did. His direct childish insults were responded to by me in kind and perhaps this was wrong of me, but by that point I was keen to know what his real agenda was.

I am sorry that Niranjan was banned and I feel a degree of guilt in being one of those that was involved in that. Perhaps if I had ignored him as I had intended at one point none of the messy, undignified posts of the last 2 days would have happened and he would still be here. But if he was here he would still be him. Still be telling others what they think or should think. Ultimately he showed no respect for the other people using this forum and thus was shown no respect in return. I dont think it bad behaviour to show a degree of disagreement with someones beliefs and opinions, and even be heated about it. But to tell people what they must do and think oversteps the boundary by a big step.

I am somewhat in agreement with you in your philosophy regarding banning. I think a first ban should be a cooling off period as in most online forums. But that is not the rules here at present and Niranjan knew that. And he had been warned. That said given that our host here is reviewing these rules maybe Niranjan and others will be back. I would have no problem with it personaly. However I respect what I,Brian has already imparted here on this thread. It is his responsibility, his time, effort and cold hard cash that keeps this place alive. It is the best discussion forum I have yet found and what makes it so is the mutual respect that the forum fosters. The rules have worked well to date and there is that common logic in not fixing what aint broke.

Just before Niranjan was banned he pm'd me with an appology showing that tho he had yet to take the step of doing so publicly he was capable of doing so privately. And so I am in ageement with you also that he needed this forum as much as anybody. He is a very bright young man with the potential to contribute much to our discussions here. And to learn from the wisdom that I see so often imparted on these pages. Perhaps some of the sages here could have helped to temper his youthful passion. Unfortunately I am not one of these sages.

Last, but by no means least, I am owe others here an appology for my part in that ignoble exchange. Especially to Muslimwoman who's important thread was trashed in the process. And here it is humbly tendered. I appologise to all.

TE
 
Sunny C. said:
It would seem that there is a hierarchical pecking order here, the top tier of which is exempted from what is expected from the lower tier. And then there are certain folks who seem to expect some modicum of obesience from the rest in deference to their self-perceived position in the aristocracy of the forum. I find this endlessly interesting to observe.
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How can you possibly see it all from your seats. Heck I can hardly hear you from there.
 
I'l brie edamned if I know what this is all about! I'l put my stilton, see if i can see whats going on.
 
cyberpi, CR doesn't ask for much from its members - simply basic civility. It's not a demanding request for most, but it is something that everyone agrees to when they join.

Because most people are fine with that, there's usually no problem. But if someone is seen to consistently seen to move outside of that request, then I have to deal with it.

Whenever someone points out potential trouble on the forums, I go out of my way to read as much as possible around the situation to place it in context. Once I feel I have as near complete a picture as I can get, I'm able to make a decision.

Some members will only have read a couple of such threads and have a partial view on the situation, and will base their own personal decisions on that. Because of that, their opinion will differ from mine.

I think this is why pretty much every forum I'm a member of does not pitch admin decisions to the community to make, nor makes much of a point to force admin discussions into the public arena.

I'm a forum admin. I set out basic ground rules, and look to see people follow them. It's my responsibility to look after the interests of the overall community.

That means if someone is seen to be disruptive to the overall community, it's the community interests that have to be looked after.

I'm not saying that every decision made is a good one - I know I've made mistakes here before - but I'm looking to ensure those experiences are learned from and mistakes not repeated.

That's why I'm trying to allow the community to define itself more, and be as forgiving as possible in what we can tolerate.

But there remains that basic insistance that CR requires some degree of civility, and those who insist on constantly acting outside of that remit have no place here.
 
I said:
But there remains that basic insistance that CR requires some degree of civility, and those who insist on constantly acting outside of that remit have no place here.
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Impower me m'lord..... Trust within my righteous retribution..... I shall bring those down that must feel thy wrath! But, hold up high those who deserve...th... the glory!

*loads shotgun*
 
Hi All

Has anyone noticed that it doesn't matter how long and slow you cook one nor how much orange sauce you ladle over it while cooking, it is just so damned difficult to chew and swallow a yellow rubber duckie? Some will even squeak whilst they're being chewed.

flow....:p
 
You know I think to me it is like this...me mind you, these are my thoughts.

When I open up 'new posts' and see a page or two, I often see multiple posts by the same people (as he hears the choir say "Yeah....YOU!!") and some people I like to read all the time, and some I don't read all the time. But there are still a variety of posts and topics.

But when I open up and see three pages of new posts and two pages are the same person and they are all spam...let us call it what it is. It is more than a little disconcerting. Now are there folks who we know do the same thing in a much minor scale? So that maybe one or two posts on any given page are something just run up the flag pole to see who salutes...and then we see someone responded and encouraged more of the same and we groan....(I told you this was me...and I hear you all groaning at many of my monologues)...

Anyhow...I...me....myself see a difference between the thrice a week or once a day posts vs. the 10 or 20 new threads an hour...throwing spam at the wall to see what sticks...

It could very well be a judgmental portion of myself that needs exorcising, it could be a button that I've exposed to be pushable....whatever that is my take....and when someone decides to come in and blast away with no concern...I don't tear up over their premature demise...they made bad choices...
 
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