dialogue about dialogue

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What I am speaking out against is something that is far beyond anyone here and this website. It is the status quo not just across internet forums but in countries edging ever closer to a police state with a polarized government and public.

I think this is a very valid concern, but it's worth remembering that the internet itself is so huge and empowering that just because someone is unable to participate in one website, does not mean they can't be involved in others. If a state applies restrictions, people don't have the same equivalent freedom to move, but that doesn't apply to internet for most of us.

Civility, I think is an essential requirement of interfaith dialogue. Because of the nature of the subject matter, things are always going to get rocky sometimes, or people will post in the heat of the moment and regret it, and that's always going to be taken into account. There needs to be a general acceptance I think that making one or two mistakes doesn't a bad person make.

However, I absolutely draw the line at people who want to turn CR into their own personal marketing channel. It serves the interests of a minority, and the internet allows these people to set up their own marketing in their own space, under their own rules.

A community such as at CR is a social gathering, with all the varying dynamics. But as with all social situations, there is a line of acceptance in terms of what should be tolerable for the overall group, and what should not be allowable.

If I'm in a pub or restaurant, and someone starts shouting at the clients and won't calm down and generally acts disruptive, I expect that they will be ejected from the premises - else I'll be the one to leave and not return. If the behaviour is tolerated, how many people will care to visit such a place? Who will be motivated most to visit it if aggressive behaviour is openly accpeted?

I apply a similar thinking to CR - most people don't need moderater attention because they can already accept basic norms of social behaviour. If not, I will usually try and work it out with them, but there comes a point when it needs stating that enough is enough.

It's never an easy call to make, but to be honest, the only reason such objections to these decisions is made is because - despite seeing people as trouble-makers from the start - I gave them tolerance enough to try and adapt to the basic acceptable norms that CR runs on. As a forum admin, I should remove trouble-makers the moment they appear, but it's precisely because I am trying to be so tolerant in what is allowed that such situations develop long enough that the resulting decisions come under scrunity.

A point about Bobby's writing column - I knew him from other sites a long time ago, and thought that a series of writing columns on CR offering different faith positions would be interesting to run. He writes from a moderate Christian perspective I find interesting, and think stories such as Big Buddy have a wide appeal.

I have tried to get others to write for this - you may remember pseudonymous who also turned up and began writing prolifically, and was provided a column as a channel for that - but he disappeared almost as quickly and there seemed little point in having an empty column on the site, so his threads were moved out into the general forums. He had a unique non-committal approach to spirituality and went through his own prophetic experiences, but he didn't come to CR to force them on us as a marketing practice. He simply wanted to share some of the extreme experiences he had felt in his life.

Others have suggested writing columns, but nothing's come of it, and I'm tempted to start one myself - I try to run CR from a neutral position, and it's rare that I push any of my own opinions here. I will sometimes try to add to a discussion to move it one way or another, especially where I beleive a discussion is lacking balance. Maybe that's why a column seems a good idea - the ability to share my own views and experiences without impinging on the general neutrality of the site. Something I'd like to do, but maybe don't have the time to post regularly enough on at present.

On that note - there's a software upgrade coming to the forums over the summer that should allow people to have their own blog sections on the forums. It'll be interesting to see what happens with this, and whether it proves useful for people.

Another point on the issue of suitability for CR - sometimes people will have complaints raised against them simply for their different opinions and how they express them. I remember some time ago people raised complaints about you, cyberpi, especially regarding your activity on the Islam board. I made the judgement call that you were a constructive member and no action was required.

I'll admit - I don't like the decisions I make being called into question or scrutiny, and on a personal level it I don't like it. But as a forum admin, I figure it's my responsility to allow such questions to be raised, and to be accountable for them. Ultimately, CR is only as strong as the community it develops. My priority therefore has to be to try and look after the majority interest community as I see it, to allow it to continue to grow and stregthen.

2c.
 
I love blogs! yay!!

Cyberpi you are deep and I respect and appreciate you I love you and I long for you to join the Kingdom of God. We will see :) I too have this thing, though that I cannot tolerate what I deem unjust . I get myself into trouble because I refuse to let up until a wrong has been righted or that someone sees the wrongness of an act. I believe its a gift from G-d because G-d is Just and Right and one day I will be judging for His names sake so I think its an early lesson in mercy and understanding. I am learning how to lose a battle win a soul to Christ. G-d has the ultimate control and His will be done.

Silas and I are guilty of the exact same thing. He is just not as subtle as I am. I AM here to bring people to Jesus Christ..probably not a surprise to most! I have been commanded to go throughout the world and spread the gospel by my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ... that is and should be the most important thing in my life. I had long discourses with Silas about how to evangelize on this forum and he did good for awhile but then he would get emotional and more direct which is a symptom of spiritual immaturity..A wise man guards his tongue. But goodness he is so much better than when he first showed up here.. Im sure Brian knows that hes been here under many names. If you look back at all the names hes posted on you would see just how much hes grown. I anticipate great things as he is refined by the Spirit of G-d.

Its interesting because in all the years Ive been posting here I thought that I was doing wrong because I was entertaining apostacy..that was my own immaturity. Recently I received a word from the Lord through someone that rang true in my soul.. this is my ministry and the word was for battle with the enemy which has already seen victory. This realization also made something that I thought was a put-down become a truth and with it an acceptance that G-d will use His people wherever they are..including posting on forums on the internet :)

I am an ambassador for the Kingdom of G-d. Apply within. :)

Praise Him for He is worthy to receive all Glory Honor and Power for He created ALL things and by His will they exist and were created.
 
Faithfulservant,

With respect, I find much of your post above to be the product of warped ego that your particular faith fosters.
For example:
I believe its a gift from G-d because G-d is Just and Right and one day I will be judging for His names sake so I think its an early lesson in mercy and understanding.
Just where do you get off on this? You presume to think you will by your actions now be a part of judgement in the future? Have you any idea how megalomaniac that statement is? I dont give a flying monkey about whether you throw in the proviso's of " mercy and understanding" to try and make it sound to yourself that its good. It is not. By presuming this faculty of judgement in the future you live it here and now. If I could be offended by any of your delusions then this would make me livid. How arrogant. How presumptuous. How far into your own ego can you go?

I have been commanded to go throughout the world and spread the gospel by my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ...
Now that is simply not a fact. The actual fact is that you follow the narrow ideas of Russel and Barbour who themselves could not agree with each other for more than a few years. Every single end of time prediction made by them and their successors has patently failed to materialise. It is the commandment of the Cult you belong to to go out and evangelise not God or Jesus.

You have openly expressed here now that which we all knew anyway, that you are proselytising for the Watchtower. At least you have the decency to take the trouble to write with your own words rather than posting pastes and links. None the less I feel you arrogantly disregard the spirit of this forum in your admission and it is thus a statement that you have no respect for the views of others. You make me hope there will indeed one day be a 'judgement day'.

TE
 
Good Friend Tao!

Faithful is not JW, nor is she likely to overtly agree with the JW's mission. She is expressing her Southern Bible Belt Texas branch of Fundamentalist Christianity, if I am not mistaken of the Baptist variety. Faithful may very well hold devout beliefs, but cut and paste is not one of them. She is ready, willing and fully able to express herself as she sees fit. ;)

While I may not agree with all she says, nevertheless I do respect her right to say what she believes. And for Cyberpi's benefit, I respect her right because she is civil in presenting her beliefs.
 
Kindest Regards, Faithful!
But goodness he (*Silas) is so much better than when he first showed up here.. Im sure Brian knows that hes been here under many names. If you look back at all the names hes posted on you would see just how much hes grown. I anticipate great things as he is refined by the Spirit of G-d.
If one goes back and looks (cyberpi?) they would see I have said to more than one person that it is not what one believes that gets them into trouble around here, it is how they present themselves. Did I not say Silas would be welcomed back if he would simply be civil in his approach? Of course, I am wondering if there is a bad precedent being set, starting with Taijasi / Andrew, of using multiple sock puppets? I will leave the final decision on that matter to Brian, but I'm reasonably certain this is not behavior we wish to encourage.

Its interesting because in all the years Ive been posting here I thought that I was doing wrong because I was entertaining apostacy..that was my own immaturity. Recently I received a word from the Lord through someone that rang true in my soul.. this is my ministry and the word was for battle with the enemy which has already seen victory. This realization also made something that I thought was a put-down become a truth and with it an acceptance that G-d will use His people wherever they are..including posting on forums on the internet :)
Lay it on her, Lord! Hallelujah!

I am an ambassador for the Kingdom of G-d. :)
As are many here, some of whom don't even realize.

Praise Him for He is worthy to receive all Glory Honor and Power for He created ALL things and by His will they exist and were created.
Amen, Christians and non-Christians alike! ;)
 
Faithfulservant,

Excuse me for not knowing the history of some of the previous posters, ie Silas, and maybe I am interpreting your post out of context:
I AM here to bring people to Jesus Christ..probably not a surprise to most! I have been commanded to go throughout the world and spread the gospel by my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ...
but who here are you addressing your mission to?
this is my ministry and the word was for battle with the enemy which has already seen victory
I am sorry if this is taken out of context, but does this refer to some previous post or poster, or some people who may be here now? I do wonder how a "battle with the enemy" can be related to an internet forum on comparative religions.
 
My sincere apologies Faithfulservant for thinking you a JW. However unless I am gravely misinterpreting that which I highlighted I stand by the cut of my post. I am ready to stand corrected in that eventuality.

TE
 
Faithfulservant,

With respect, I find much of your post above to be the product of warped ego that your particular faith fosters.
For example:
Just where do you get off on this? You presume to think you will by your actions now be a part of judgement in the future? Have you any idea how megalomaniac that statement is? I dont give a flying monkey about whether you throw in the proviso's of " mercy and understanding" to try and make it sound to yourself that its good. It is not. By presuming this faculty of judgement in the future you live it here and now. If I could be offended by any of your delusions then this would make me livid. How arrogant. How presumptuous. How far into your own ego can you go?

Now that is simply not a fact. The actual fact is that you follow the narrow ideas of Russel and Barbour who themselves could not agree with each other for more than a few years. Every single end of time prediction made by them and their successors has patently failed to materialise. It is the commandment of the Cult you belong to to go out and evangelise not God or Jesus.

You have openly expressed here now that which we all knew anyway, that you are proselytising for the Watchtower. At least you have the decency to take the trouble to write with your own words rather than posting pastes and links. None the less I feel you arrogantly disregard the spirit of this forum in your admission and it is thus a statement that you have no respect for the views of others. You make me hope there will indeed one day be a 'judgement day'.

TE

I do not actually hold myself to a denomination.. I am one person in the body of Christ. I am not JW.. I attend Calvary Chapel Fort Worth.

Trust me when I say that I am humbled at the mere thought that I would judge this world when I have been wrong so much of my life. It scares the hell out of me. I dont even CARE about that.. so being accused of having an ego is funny to me.

1Co 6:3 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?

This is in the context of us not allowing the judgement of others to sway us from our carrying our cross.. which ironically is the issue right as we speak.. lol I will take that as a confirmation. :)


Acts 1:8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

Mttw 4:9 Then He said to them, "Follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men."

Mtthew 10:38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.

I am not going to lie and decieve you as to why I post here.. I live this life preparing for the eternity that waits after and I want everyone I meet to be with me when I go.. This is my life.. telling you about how much God loves you that He would send His only Son here to pay the price for your sins so that you could partake in His mercy and be with Him forever. Yeah thats the good news!

Or would you actually rather I lie to you? I dont lie very well. Seriously.
 
Faithfulservant,

Excuse me for not knowing the history of some of the previous posters, ie Silas, and maybe I am interpreting your post out of context:
but who here are you addressing your mission to?
I am sorry if this is taken out of context, but does this refer to some previous post or poster, or some people who may be here now? I do wonder how a "battle with the enemy" can be related to an internet forum on comparative religions.

Whoever would hear the gospel is who I would "address" this mission to.

This is spiritual warfare even though we walk in the flesh we do not war according to the flesh. A mistake for me has been to triviallize the importance of this comparative religion forum I wont do it again. My enemy is here and he seeks to stop what good I try to do here by trying to trip me up using scripture against me... he throws snares in my path by using my emotions against me... may seem odd to an unbeliever but someone who believes would bear witness to this.
 
I do not actually hold myself to a denomination.. I am one person in the body of Christ. I am not JW.. I attend Calvary Chapel Fort Worth.

Trust me when I say that I am humbled at the mere thought that I would judge this world when I have been wrong so much of my life. It scares the hell out of me. I dont even CARE about that.. so being accused of having an ego is funny to me.

1Co 6:3 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?

This is in the context of us not allowing the judgement of others to sway us from our carrying our cross.. which ironically is the issue right as we speak.. lol I will take that as a confirmation. :)


Acts 1:8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

Mttw 4:9 Then He said to them, "Follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men."

Mtthew 10:38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.

I am not going to lie and decieve you as to why I post here.. I live this life preparing for the eternity that waits after and I want everyone I meet to be with me when I go.. This is my life.. telling you about how much God loves you that He would send His only Son here to pay the price for your sins so that you could partake in His mercy and be with Him forever. Yeah thats the good news!

Or would you actually rather I lie to you? I dont lie very well. Seriously.

Well thank you for your reply. I have no wish here to insult anybody but to me this is no more than ego, regardless of the window dressing you wish to give it. Your ideas seem to mirror Moral Majority which is a Minority of fascist Christians however they wish to dress themselves. They are the intolerant book burners of the modern era. They relentlessly pursue genuine honest artists and deprive them of their liberty for years in their self-righteous judgementalism. I do not see your ideas as benign and well meaning, far from it. It is grandiose ideas of superiority that drive such beliefs. It is ego.

TE
 
Who's orthodox? Thomas for sure, but who else? I can hear it now, "hey bud, this is the Orthodox board, non of that sola scriptura here. Now, run along and play with your little Liberal friends." I just think things should be labeled accurately. Orthodox is not the same as Conservative, Liberal is not a lost and found bin for non-traditionalists. Thomas is, from what I've seen so far, the sole representative of Orthodoxy. Quahom perhaps as well, I don't know. LunaMoth is the sole representative of Liberal Christianity from what I've seen. The rest of you all are a Heinz 57 of mostly conservative denominations. Then there's wil, who I understand is Unity, and Andrew and Nick who are Theosophists, and Tao, myself, and others who range from borderline atheists to syncretists of various stripes. We probably belong on B&S or down under on Philosophy.

I know this is a response from a few pages back, but I wanted to clarify a misunderstanding. By the term "Orthodox", I wasn't referring in the sense of the particular institutions like Catholic or Eastern Orthodox persuasions. But rather orthodox in that adherance to the historic Christian faith. Orthodox in terms of the basics of the Christian doctrine probably best reflected in the Nicene creed:

We believe in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the Virgin Mary, and was made man, and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. He suffered and was buried, and the third day he rose again according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father. And he shall come again with glory to judge both the quick and the dead, whose kingdom shall have no end.
And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, who proceedeth from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets. And we believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

It is from this basis that I proposed a forum where orthodox and conservative discussions can be held in a relatively safe haven from unorthodox influences, not as a means of banning those with a more liberal stance, but rather a place where there is a basic understanding of traditional Christianity.
 
... Orthodox in terms of the basics of the Christian doctrine probably best reflected in the Nicene creed:

It is from this basis that I proposed a forum where orthodox and conservative discussions can be held in a relatively safe haven from unorthodox influences, not as a means of banning those with a more liberal stance, but rather a place where there is a basic understanding of traditional Christianity.
This is where it gets exceptionally tricky...as the Creed of which you speak was created in the fourth century as an attempt to combine the varied christian viewpoints of the day and eliminate those that Constantine and the Church deemed outside of their beliefs. And we have churches which accept the creed but still argue particulars and just like our variance in ten commandments we now have more than one creed...

In addition many of the very orthodox, the very liberal, the very literal, and the very .... believe that they are following the original teachings of Jesus and the bible and that their origins predate the creed and that they are truly orthodox/conservative despite current titles...

All quite tricky.
 
This is where it gets exceptionally tricky...as the Creed of which you speak was created in the fourth century as an attempt to combine the varied christian viewpoints of the day and eliminate those that Constantine and the Church deemed outside of their beliefs. And we have churches which accept the creed but still argue particulars and just like our variance in ten commandments we now have more than one creed...

In addition many of the very orthodox, the very liberal, the very literal, and the very .... believe that they are following the original teachings of Jesus and the bible and that their origins predate the creed and that they are truly orthodox/conservative despite current titles...

All quite tricky.

The purpose of the Nicene Creed was to establish an orthodox stance to prevent unbiblical errors from creeping into the Church. There were various groups denying such biblically established doctrines such as the virgin birth and the diety of Christ. Why it took so long to establish this sort of statement, I don't know. But there are plenty of warnings scattered all through the New Testament against false teachings and false prophets. But at least the Creed was a statement that is agreed upon by the Church at large (both Catholic, Orthodox, and some Protestant). And the commonality of the document ought to serve as a starting point.
 
I love blogs! yay!!

Glad to hear it. :)

He is just not as subtle as I am. I AM here to bring people to Jesus Christ..probably not a surprise to most!

The big difference is, you can express yourself as part of dialogue - you can make your point without feeling like you need to ram it down someone's throat. :)
 
Well thank you for your reply. I have no wish here to insult anybody but to me this is no more than ego, regardless of the window dressing you wish to give it. Your ideas seem to mirror Moral Majority which is a Minority of fascist Christians however they wish to dress themselves. They are the intolerant book burners of the modern era. They relentlessly pursue genuine honest artists and deprive them of their liberty for years in their self-righteous judgementalism. I do not see your ideas as benign and well meaning, far from it. It is grandiose ideas of superiority that drive such beliefs. It is ego.

TE

Tao, chill. :)

I don't think Faithful Servant has done anything to warrant your vitriolic attack.

Instead, you've determined that an individual represents something larger that you dislike, and therefore attack the individual - but that's not cricket.

Treat individuals as the individuals they are, and don't treat them as scapegoats for general hates, and you may just find some of the very people you claim to hate can actually be decent, well-intended, well-mannered and pleasant people to dialogue with.

Unless Faithful Servant belongs to any specific organisation that's beating up on people, I suggest you refrain from trying to claim such an association.
 
Well thank you for your reply. I have no wish here to insult anybody but to me this is no more than ego, regardless of the window dressing you wish to give it. Your ideas seem to mirror Moral Majority which is a Minority of fascist Christians however they wish to dress themselves. They are the intolerant book burners of the modern era. They relentlessly pursue genuine honest artists and deprive them of their liberty for years in their self-righteous judgementalism. I do not see your ideas as benign and well meaning, far from it. It is grandiose ideas of superiority that drive such beliefs. It is ego.

TE

Thank you Brian for that wonderful defense... You made me blush! :)

TE, I think that you misunderstand people like me. Try to think of it like this.. I have discovered a cure and I want to tell the whole world about it. Ego would be keeping it to myself because Im the only one that deserves it and was smart enough to figure it out? I tell you that the only reason I got it was because I was sick and I needed it and I realized I was going to die.

As far as Artists are concerned? Our creator is a brilliant artist and we are made in His image...so why would I have a problem with art or the artist that exalts Him and His creation?? Its circular reasoning..Is it a nudity thing? I think the body is a brilliant work of art and I am not offended by it at all..

Im an avid bookworm also... You are throwing all these things at me without knowing who I am.. I read sci-fi / fantasy.. I love historical romances.. Ive read everything by Stephen King and Laurell K Hamilton.

Fascism? Come on. I work in the financial industry if anything Im a Capitalist / Republican

So tell me.. who has the ego here and who is unfairly judging the other?

honestly.
 
OK in all honesty I am confused and have no axe to grind (at the minute!)

Dondi says:

“Witnessing, or prostylizing, is against forum rules.”

Then faithfulservant says:

“Silas and I are guilty of the exact same thing. He is just not as subtle as I am. I AM here to bring people to Jesus Christ..probably not a surprise to most! I have been commanded to go throughout the world and spread the gospel by my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ... that is and should be the most important thing in my life. I had long discourses with Silas about how to evangelize on this forum and he did good for awhile but then he would get emotional and more direct which is a symptom of spiritual immaturity.”

Is it all about the interpretation of >>>

2. We do not allow CR to be used as a soapbox to aggressively promote any faith, or see any faith aggressively attacked.

??

Just looking for some clarification really.

s.
 
2. We do not allow CR to be used as a soapbox to aggressively promote any faith, or see any faith aggressively attacked.

??

Just looking for some clarification really.

s.

me too:(.......I do not want to being missionaried to , or whatever way that may be interpreted
 
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