Eschatology and Islam

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Dan Lauffer

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One of my occupations is as a college instructor in Comparative Religions. Eschatology, the study of end times, or better, a cultures view of history, has always fascinated me as a template for understanding the religions. I use a three part classification, although I know that Ninian Smart and others use a more complex one: Western Materialism/Rationalism, Christian, and Eastern Mystic. While there is some overlapping it is fairly easy to get a grasp of the general views of eschatology of each major religion in this way.

Assuming, and assuming is always dangerous, that my classification has some merit how might one classify Islam?

Here's what I've done so far. Since basic Islam rejects the Incarnation of Christ their basic outlook is more akin to Western rationalism than it is to Christianity. Yet the Sufis fit more into Eastern Mystic.

Since this is my first post and I haven't read any other I'm not sure what to expect in the way of responses but I hope that my question will stimulate serious responses.

If introductions are in order I will do so in a subsequent post.

Dan Lauffer
 
End times and houris

Dan Lauffer said:
One of my occupations is as a college instructor in Comparative Religions. Eschatology, the study of end times, or better, a cultures view of history, has always fascinated me as a template for understanding the religions. I use a three part classification, although I know that Ninian Smart and others use a more complex one: Western Materialism/Rationalism, Christian, and Eastern Mystic. While there is some overlapping it is fairly easy to get a grasp of the general views of eschatology of each major religion in this way.

Assuming, and assuming is always dangerous, that my classification has some merit how might one classify Islam?

Here's what I've done so far. Since basic Islam rejects the Incarnation of Christ their basic outlook is more akin to Western rationalism than it is to Christianity. Yet the Sufis fit more into Eastern Mystic.

Since this is my first post and I haven't read any other I'm not sure what to expect in the way of responses but I hope that my question will stimulate serious responses.

If introductions are in order I will do so in a subsequent post.

Dan Lauffer
Click to expand...

I am not conversant with Muslim end times. But I read that Muslim guys get to be surrounded by gorgeous girls, houris, when they get to their Paradise -- like those suicide bombers for the glory of Allah.

Have you done any research reading, or inquiring from devout Muslims where the gorgeous girls will be in the Muslim end times. Will they still be serving the Muslim guys, or they will get a chance to be served in return by handsome lads?

Tell me, when you have done your research on the end times of Muslims. That should be easy, since you are handling classes in comparative religion.

Susma Rio Sep
 
Zdrastvuitsye, hola, shalom, salaam, Dia dhuit, namastar ji, hej, konbanwa, squeak, meow, :wave: Dan Lauffer.

What college/university do you teach at? There should be a Muslim Students Organization chapter either on campus or at a nearby campus. They might be willing/able to answer any questions about their religion beyond what you've already have researched (as long as you show them the proper respect.)

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine (a college student)
 
Dan Lauffer said:
I use a three part classification, although I know that Ninian Smart and others use a more complex one: Western Materialism/Rationalism, Christian, and Eastern Mystic.

...

Here's what I've done so far. Since basic Islam rejects the Incarnation of Christ their basic outlook is more akin to Western rationalism than it is to Christianity. Yet the Sufis fit more into Eastern Mystic.
Click to expand...

Hi Dan, and welcome to CR. :)

I have to say, though, that your own classification does seem quite limited - it seems to be a very Christian-centric approach, so trying to engage the complexities of other religious thinking into such a narrow seeming band, could quite be the reason why you are having problems with the classification of different branches of Islamic thought in the first place. :)
 
Your definition of religion, please.

May I request of you, Lauffer, to give us your very own personal definition of religion, in not more than 30 words?

My second request, you say:

Here's what I've done so far. Since basic Islam rejects the Incarnation of Christ their basic outlook is more akin to Western rationalism than it is to Christianity. Yet the Sufis fit more into Eastern Mystic.
Click to expand...

Please enlighten me on the following questions, in not more than thirty words each:

1. What is basic Islam, aside from one of its elements being the rejection of the Incarnation?

2. What in Western rationalism is basic Islam more akin to, than it (basic Islam) is akin to Christianity?

3. Who or what are Sufis?

4. In what ways do Sufis "fit more into Eastern Mystic"?


I need your brief answers for my continuing education in Islam, Western rationalism, Sufism, and Eastern mysticism.

I almost forget, how is the discipline of comparative religion different from the discipline of religion in general? (Also in 30 words or less.)

I am here for the education in religious matters. Please help me.

Susma Rio Sep
 
Something personal, please.

Vajradhara said:
Namaste all,

su,

you can find out about the Sufi tradition here:

http://www.sufiorder.org/
Click to expand...

Thanks, Vaj, for the website reference on Sufism. Yes, I looked it up; ideals expounded there seem not much different from Baha'i ones.

Just the same, I would like to hear from Lauffer himself his own personal exposition briefly on Sufism and the other items I have set forth in my preceding post.

Personal letters are much more genial and empathetic than form letters; form letters that's what I see in website expositions of religious system.

Susma Rio Sep
 
Salaam su,

thanks for the post.

how's that old saying go...

give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime.
 
The sufis are to the Tantric practioners as basic Muslims are to the Theravadin traditions.

The sufis desire union with God. They want to return to him.
This is in my few a clear sign of mysticism.
They rise above basic rationlisations that the mundane portion of the religion rests in.

They also have an interesting notion about how everything in the world is spinning (hence the dance).
Now I don't think that everything is literally spinning, but then what is spinning. It is a cycle.
What I do believe is that everything works in cycles, so in my few they've caught on to a critical concept which I see little of in other religions.
They make use of a trance state which they enter through chanting and spinning, much like the spinning pray wheels and mantras in Vajrayana Buddhism or shamans dancing around a fire.

Worth a look in my opinion.

As for classification, I think you should place the general Islamic beliefs in with the Christian ones if it must be done.
Rationalising about God is not going to get you very far, hence the importance of faith, trust in religious texts, restriction of religious freedom...oops.

I've said too much.
 
Dan wrote:

Since basic Islam rejects the Incarnation of Christ their basic outlook is more akin to Western rationalism than it is to Christianity. Yet the Sufis fit more into Eastern Mystic.

Reply:

I'm a little unclear about your tripartite classification system...but off hand i would say that Islam is not "more akin to western rationalism" either.... There were certanly Moslem philosophers who conveyed a deep understanding of the classics and passed this knowledge on to the West.

Also I think there was not so much a division between religion and philosophy that you have developed in the West....

Rational faculties would be considered God given and part of the soul...

Mysticism is also a part I think of Islam....

Your problem may be in approaching Islam from a Western perspective that splits and fragments mysticism, rationalism, and science in my view.

Islam does deny the Incarnation of God in the flesh but accepts the Virgin Birth of Jesus. Recall that the Ethiopian Christain rulers gave sanctuary to the Moslem refugees from the Meccan pagans. Also, that Prophet Muhammad Himself predicted the victory of Heraclius over the Sassanids.

The views of heaven mentioned by Susma are of course to be taken spiritually and allegorically in the context of the culture they were directed to... So for desert people, a place of shade and plentiful streams and fruit was paradise.... The Hoaris likewise are to be seen as spiritual beings .... not so unlike the maidens who were portrayed in the Graal legends who proferred the sacred Cup.

- Art
 
Greetings Mr. Lauffer,

I will venture to post a reply regarding Muslim eschatology.
In my opinion, the Islamic view of the end-times does not differ very much from the basic Christian concept, with some notable exceptions regarding the role of Jesus. I am not familiar with what you are referring to as Western rationalist eschatology, so I can't say which view it more closely resembles.

Relative to Christians, Muslims do not have a very highly developed system of eschatology. You can tune in to TBN and see John Hagee with his elaborate color timelines detailing the exact unfolding events before the Apocolypse, right down to the day, all according to his interpretation of various Bible prophecies. Muslims generally do not obsess as much about future details, believing that everything will happen as Allah plans.

There are some basic facts about the end-times revealed in the Qur'an: the earth will be leveled, mankind will be resurrected and will stand in groups awaiting judgment, Allah will separate the righteous from the wicked and they will enter their respective abodes. Beyond what's in the Qur'an, Muslim scholars can't establish anything as 100% certain doctrine, since it doesn't meet the criteria of direct revelation.

There are, however, secondary sources of authority, called ahadith, which contain more information regarding end-times. These are the sayings and doings of the Prophet Muhammad, which were transmitted by oral tradition and collected into books about 150 years after his death. They were graded at various levels of authenticity that are still debated by scholars today. Some of these sayings include specific signs, both minor and major, which will signal nearness of the end, such as a general moral decay, etc, and some curious sayings which seems to refer to the development of modern transportation. Included in the major signs is the return of Jesus to earth.

Although Muslim scholars study these sayings, as I mentioned, concern for the exact particulars regarding the End does not seem to carry as much weight for Muslims as it does for Christians, and so the eschatology is not as cut and dried. The emphasis is rather on doing good in the present and leaving the future to Allah. "Allahu 'alim" - "God knows."

I hope this helps. :)

veritasamat
 
Paging, 'card carrying' Muslims...

Veritas, are you a 'card carrying' Muslim? If you are, I don't seem to see any self-introduction by yourself of your Muslim identity. But you do talk knowledgeably about Islam. Nonetheless, nothing takes the place of believers themselves expounding on their belieifs and practices.

I don't seem to come across so far in this thread any self-avowed Muslims knowledgeable with his faith, like Vaj is knowledgeable with his Buddhism and Buddhistic matters, or Bananabrain with Judaism.

Muslims if any in this forum, please step forward and give us what you know about the end times.

However I am certain that as with Christians, Muslims are divided into different and even opposing factions as regards doctrines and observances. So we have to specify what factions of Islam respectively teach about the end times. Just maybe there are Muslims who do not believe in any end times at all.

Susma Rio Sep
 
Hello Susmo,
Yes, I am a muslim. If you examine my beliefs, I'm sure I'd fit into the category of sunni, but beyond that I do not pledge allegiance to any particular school of thought, but rather look at what different schools have to say regarding any given issue, and choose according to logic and moral conscience. I have some ideas that tend toward mysticism and some ideas that tend toward rationalism, so I suppose I'm hard to pigeon-hole. But as far as being "card-carrying"... I do have a certificate of membership at the mosque. Will that do? :)
The information I gave about Muslim eschatology is general, and I doubt that any other muslims would find argument with it, except possibly shi'ah, because they hold to different historical traditions.
Here is a website that explains more in-depth. http://www.signsofthelastday.com/site.html
Peace,
veritasamat
 
Greetings Dan Lauffer,Koranic Eschatology is part and parcel of Biblical Eschatology. In fact, one book of the Holy Bible was used by the authors of the Koran as a blueprint for the entire Koran.That book is the Biblical Book of Revelation.I have been researching the link between the Book of Revelation and the Koran for the past year. I have compiled evidence beyond any reasonable doubt that the Koranic concepts of Heaven, Hell, & Eschatology are derived almost entirely from this one single book.Most of these parallels are completely lost when rendered into the popular English translations. A literal study of the Arabic tells us a very different story indeed.I have amassed nearly 100 unimpeachable themes that show what has occurred, and many, many surprises unknown to most scholars.I would encourage you to compare the two Holy Books for yourself, and draw your own conclusions.Thanks for your time…
 
Apple Pie,

I was interested in your last note:

"In fact, one book of the Holy Bible was used by the authors of the Koran as a blueprint for the entire Koran. That book is the Biblical Book of Revelation. I have been researching the link between the Book of Revelation and the Koran for the past year. I have compiled evidence beyond any reasonable doubt that the Koranic concepts of Heaven, Hell, & Eschatology are derived almost entirely from this one single book."

And wondered if you could either provide a few examples of what you mean or supply a reference or two...

In friendship,

- Art
 
Greetings Art,

Thanks for your inquiry.

Yes, I can post a couple of examples for you.

It appears that the Character length restriction on this forum will result in extending this over a few posts.

Here is the first part...


144,000 Sealed, Koran: (2:243, 5:12, 17:104, 33:21-22, 39:73, 74:1-5, 78:18, 110:1-2)

144,000 Sealed, Book of Revelation: (7:4-17, 14:1-5, 19:1)




144,000 Sealed, Koran

Do you not see/understand to those who got out from their homes/countries/tribes/places, and they are thousands, fearing/cautioning the death, so Allah said to them: "Die." Then He revived them. That Allah (is owner) of grace/favour/blessing on the people, and but most of the people do not thank/be grateful. (2:243)

And Allah had taken Israel's sons' and daughters' promise/covenant, and We sent from them twelve heads/chiefs/representatives, and Allah said: "I am with you, if you kept up the prayers, and you gave the charity/purification, and you believed with My messengers and you supported/aided them, and you lent/advanced Allah a good loan/advance, I will substitute from you your sins/crimes and I will enter you treed gardens the rivers flow from beneath it, so who disbelieved after that, from you, so (he) had misguided the way's/path's straightness." (5:12)

And We said from after him to Israel's sons and daughters: "Reside/inhabit the land/Planet Earth, so if the ends' (other life's) promise came, We came with you (in) mixed crowds/huge gatherings." (17:104)

(It) had been for you in Allah's messenger a good example/model to who was hoping/expecting Allah, and the Day the Last/Resurrection Day, and remembered/mentioned Allah much. And when the believers saw/understood the groups/parties, they said: "That (is) what Allah promised us and His messenger, and Allah was/is truthful and His messenger." And (it) did not increase them except belief and submission/surrender. (33:21-22)

And those who feared and obeyed their Lord are driven to the Paradise (in) groups/companies until if they came to it, and its doors opened and its safe keepers said to them: "Peace/security/greeting on (to) you, you became good/beautiful/pure, so enter it immortally/eternally." (39:73)

You, you the wrapped/covered for warmth in a robe. Stand, so warn/give notice. And your Lord, so magnify/exalt/revere. And your clothes/garments, so purify/clean. And the paganism/idol worship/sin, so abandon. (74:1-5)

A day/time the horn/bugle/instrument be blown in, so you come (in) groups/crowds. (78:18)

When/if Allah's victory/aid came, and the opening/judgment. And you saw the people entering in Allah's religion (in) groups/crowds. (110:1-2)



Look at the titles of these Suras:

SURA 33 THE GROUPS/PARTIES

SURA 39 THE GROUPS/COMPANIES

SURA 59 THE GATHERING

SURA 62 THE FRIDAY/GATHERING
 
144,000 Sealed, Book of Revelation

And I heard the number of those having been sealed: one hundred forty four thousands, having been sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel:

Out of the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand having been sealed. Out of the tribe of Reuben, twelve thousand having been sealed. Out of the tribe of Gad, twelve thousand having been sealed. Out of the tribe of Asher, twelve thousand having been sealed. Out of the tribe of Naphtali, twelve thousand having been sealed. Out of the tribe of Manasseh, twelve thousand having been sealed. Out of the tribe of Simeon, twelve thousand having been sealed. Out of the tribe of Levi, twelve thousand having been sealed. Out of the tribe of Issachar, twelve thousand having been sealed. Out of the tribe of Zebulun, twelve thousand having been sealed. Out of the tribe of Joseph, twelve thousand having been sealed. Out of the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand having been sealed. (Rev 7:4-8)

After these things I saw, and behold, a great crowd which no one was able to number them, out of every nation, even tribes and peoples and tongues, standing in front of the throne, and before the Lamb, having been clothed with white robes, and in their hands palm branches. And they cry with a great voice, saying, Salvation to our God sitting on the throne, and to the Lamb. And all the angels and of the elders and of the four living creatures stood around the throne. And they fell before the throne on their faces, and worshiped God, saying, Amen. Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and strength to our God forever and ever. Amen. And one of the elders answered, saying to me, These, the ones having been clothed in the white robes, who are they, and from where did they come? And I said to him, Sir, you know. And he said to me, These are those coming out of the great tribulation; and they washed their robes and whitened them in the blood of the Lamb. Because of this they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His sanctuary. And He sitting on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them. And they will not hunger still, nor will they thirst still, nor at all shall fall on them the sun, nor any kind of heat. Because the Lamb in the midst of the throne will shepherd them, and will lead them on living springs of waters; and God will wipe off every tear from their eyes. (Rev 7:4-17)

And I saw, and behold, the Lamb standing on MountZion! And with Him were a hundred and forty four thousands, with the name of His Father having been written on their foreheads. And I heard a sound out of Heaven, as a sound of many waters, and as a sound of great thunder. Also I heard a sound of harpers harping on their harps. And they sing as a new song before the throne, and before the four living creatures and the elders. And no one was able to learn the song except the hundred and forty four thousands, those having been redeemed from the earth. These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones following the Lamb wherever He may go. These were redeemed from among men as a firstfruit to God and to the Lamb. And no guile was found in their mouth, for they are without blemish before the throne of God. (Rev 14:1-5)
 
And after these things, I heard a great voice of a large multitude in Heaven, saying, Hallelujah! The salvation and the glory and the honor and the power of the Lord our God! (Rev 19:1)



Summary:
1) How many Tribes are sealed?...Revelation, Twelve…Koran, Twelve
2) Where do the Tribes come from?...Revelation, sons of Israel…Koran, sons of Israel
3) Who is with the Tribes?...Revelation, Jesus…Koran, Allah
4) What is their number?...Revelation, 144,000(s)…Koran, thousands
5) Where are they?...Revelation, Heaven…Koran, Paradise
6) Who are they?...Revelation, people clothed in robes…Koran, people clothes in robes
7) Robed people standing before God?....Revelation, yes…Koran, yes (Koran confirms that Jesus is God)
8) Robed people giving glory to God?...Revelation, yes…Koran, yes (Koran again confirms that Jesus is God)
9) Robes are whitened/purified?...Revelation, yes…Koran, yes(Whitened/purified in the Blood of Jesus…Koran confirms crucifixion)
10) Allah has aligned his “deity” with that of Jesus
11) The Koran is stating that Jesus is God
 
1,000 year reign, Koran

And you will find them the people most holding stingily and desiring strongly on (a) life/existence and from those who shared/made partners with Allah, any of them wishes/loves if he be granted long life (a) thousand years, and it is not with moving/hurriedly pushing him from the torture, that he be granted long life, and Allah (is) seeing/understanding with what they make/do/work. Say: "Who was an enemy to Gabriel, so that he descended it on your heart/mind with Allah's permission, confirming to what (is) between his hands, and (a) guidance and a good news to the believers." Who was an enemy to Allah, and His angels, and His messengers, and Gabriel, and Michael, so then Allah (is) an enemy to the disbelievers. (2:96-98)

1,000 year reign, Book of Revelation

And war occurred in Heaven, Michael and his angels making war against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels made war, but they did not have strength, nor yet was place found for them in Heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, the old serpent being called devil, and, Satan; he deceiving the whole habitable world was cast out onto the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a great voice saying in Heaven, Now has come the salvation and power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ, because the accuser of our brothers is thrown down, the one accusing them before our God day and night. (Rev 12:7-10)And he laid hold of the dragon, the old serpent who is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, and threw him into the abyss, and shut him up, and sealed over him, that he should not still lead astray the nations, until the thousand years are fulfilled. And after these things, he must be set loose a little time. And I saw thrones, and they sat on them. And judgment was given to them, and the souls of the ones having been beheaded because of the witness of Jesus, and because of the Word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast nor its image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand. And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one having part in the first resurrection. The second death has no authority over these, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him a thousand years. And whenever the thousand years are ended, Satan will be set loose out of his prison, (Rev 20:2-7)


Summary:

1) Will the people live a long time?...Revelation, yes…Koran, yes
2) Who will be the ones that live a long time?...Revelation, Believers…Koran, Believers
3) How long will this time be?...Revelation, 1,000 years…Koran, 1,000 years
4) Who will they be with during this time?...Revelation, Jesus…Koran, Allah
5) Will this 1,000 year reign be apart from something?...Revelation, yes…Koran, yes
6) Apart from the enemy of Michael and his angels?...Revelation, yes…Koran, yes
7) Apart from whom?...Revelation, Devil…Koran, enemy of Allah
8) Allah has aligned his “deity” with that of Jesus
9) The Koran is stating that Jesus is God
 
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