Pope: Other Christians not true churches

Tao_Equus said:
Thank you Q!! It is wonderful to have you back :)

My opinion is that Pope Benedict does indeed deserve to be insulted, ridiculed and, most especially, exposed for the moral bankrupt that he is. As I write my Catholic girlfriend is at Mass. She is Polish and a devout catholic. At the beginning of our relationship my status as an unbaptised heathen was a real problem for her. In fact we would not be together now if the priest from whom she sought permission had not given his blessing. And this is the issue. The authority the Pope and Priests has over the minds and freedom of so many Catholics. Given the extremely shady history of the Catholic church and its ordained representatives every man as a man has the right to question its moral authority to say anything. Cathoilic way of life touches me personaly and I have every right to comment on it. I have seen first hand the cruelty and abuse meted out by Catholic Nuns at Nazereth House here in Edinburgh when I was at school. These "good sisters" routinely tortured innocent orphan children reducing several to nervous wrecks that have to live a lifetime of scarring from this abuse. So do not tell me I dont know my back-side from a hole in the ground. My back-side knows perfectly well its function in regard to the hole in the ground of Catholic moral authority.

The Pope led a group to hide child sex abuse within the church from the wider public. This, and this alone qualifies him as a criminal guilty of the obstruction of investigation and withholding evidence. I do not insult. I speak cold hard truths. The current Pope, as they invariably are, is a political appointee from within. He was not chosen because he is a "good man".

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15190.htm

Regards

Tao
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Doesn't bother me Tao. The Pope lead no one to do anything. Bishops did, kinda like execs trying to hide bad investments from the CEO...can't charge the CEO for what he/she doesn't know...
 
Quahom1 said:
Doesn't bother me Tao. The Pope lead no one to do anything. Bishops did, kinda like execs trying to hide bad investments from the CEO...can't charge the CEO for what he/she doesn't know...
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I'm talking about what the Pope did when he was still a cardinal. Leopards, as a rule, do not change their spots.

Tao
 
Quahom1 said:
Eh, Doctor Pepper is a product of the Coca Cola Bottling company...

Coke came on scene before Pepsi. So, in effect, Coke is the real thing, and all others are knock offs...however Pepsi, had the honesty to warn Coke that someone was trying to sell their secrets...hence Pepsi won it's own right as an upstanding company...

Kinda like the Roman church and protestant church...don't you think?
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Yeah!

Let me jump over...here, and I'll try to see it from the Catholic perspective: I think what's being said is that the Catholic Church has an historic evangelical commission to unify the body of Christ under it's auspices. Where the Church fails in this mission the Body is diluted and the mission fails. The Dominus Iesus document calls upon all Catholics to remember this essential commission in respect to inter, and intra-faith dialog.

Chris
 
Tao_Equus said:
I'm talking about what the Pope did when he was still a cardinal. Leopards, as a rule, do not change their spots.

Tao
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sure they do! then they are called "cougars"...and he was a cardinal of the court, not a bishop in the states where all this crap is happening. I could go into alot of politics on this one, but it would fall on mostly deaf ears (not yours).

Liberalism 60s and 70s style, to say the least, can screw up even a catholic seminary...:eek::rolleyes::(
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
Yeah!

Let me jump over...here, and I'll try to see it from the Catholic perspective: I think what's being said is that the Catholic Church has an historic evangelical commission to unify the body of Christ under it's auspices. Where the Church fails in this mission the Body is diluted and the mission fails. The Dominus Iesus document calls upon all Catholics to remember this essential commission in respect to inter, and intra-faith dialog.

Chris
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...and...the protestant church helps re-inforce that, without "dogging" the original church. Hence the two "churches" support each other. i think that would be akin to the seven churches crutching each other, in the original days...what think you?

v/r

Q
 
The Los Angeles Catholic Church pays out $660 million to silence those that suffered abuse at the hands of its priests. To be honest I think the sum $6 million short.
Lets look at it honestly, on the day the church was due in court to face many many charges stretching over decades it throws this money down to close the stable door. No priests will be investigated, the policy of the Church will escape scrutiny, its leadership will remain untainted by their complicity through inaction, it will escape paying punitive damages estimated to run into 100s of millions of dollars, and most important of all the victims will be denied seeing justice done in court.
This is a cover up, a slight of hand that gives cash payouts but not justice. And thus is an extension of Pope Benadicts consistent policy of denial and cover up. Its a sham.

Tao
 
Interesting, you know..... Pope, King, Queen, President, Prime minster, Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Sailor, Rich man, poor man, Beggar man, Thief, Doctor, Baker, Fine shoe-maker.... Wise man, Madman, Taxman, Policeman....... Catholic, Baptists, Satanist, Pagan, JW, Mormon, Buddhist, Jew, Hindu, Muslim, Black, White, Male, Female.. Child, Adult....... Jesus choose you... :D
 
Tao_Equus said:
The Los Angeles Catholic Church pays out $660 million to silence those that suffered abuse at the hands of its priests. To be honest I think the sum $6 million short.
Lets look at it honestly, on the day the church was due in court to face many many charges stretching over decades it throws this money down to close the stable door. No priests will be investigated, the policy of the Church will escape scrutiny, its leadership will remain untainted by their complicity through inaction, it will escape paying punitive damages estimated to run into 100s of millions of dollars, and most important of all the victims will be denied seeing justice done in court.
This is a cover up, a slight of hand that gives cash payouts but not justice. And thus is an extension of Pope Benadicts consistent policy of denial and cover up. Its a sham.

Tao
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The "silence" as you mention does not exist. They were paid money for damages inflicted upon them, Tao, not to shut them up. And it wasn't the church due in court, but the people that caused the damage, with the church as partial representation.

Since 666 is the number of every man, I fail to see the link between the church and this issue...
 
Quahom1 said:
The And it wasn't the church due in court, but the people that caused the damage, with the church as partial representation.

.
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And you think Church policy of moving accused abusers from one church to another rather than having the police deal with them would not have been raised in court? That the question of culpability would not have been raised? The church has long attempted to keep a lid on this, the $660 million can only be viewed as a last effort to keep the silence and involves the victims of abuse signing non-disclosure contracts.
Sorry Q, but I see not only the people who committed the abuse as guilty but those who knowingly allowed it to continue and tried in every way to hide it.

Tao
 
We have had similar payouts here in Ireland. We have had Tribunals recently and hearings and what has been shown is that there was a systematic cover up from the Catholic heirarcy of known sex offendors. I won't give long lists here. It is in the public domain. The Church did know what was happening - people were reported and often moved on. Canonical law itself is separate from the law of the land and that was often how these criminals were judged first. The Catholic Church still holds itself above the state.

What was worse in Ireland, was that we were almost a Catholic State and the church had a control at the highest levels in Education, Hospitals, orphanages, etc..

this is from the One in Four organisation in relation to a particular Bishop :“Our experience of Bishop Walsh is that he has shown tremendous courage in how he has approached these issues in the past. In 2002 he became the first Bishop to publicly acknowledge that Bishops had placed the protection of the institution of the church ahead of the protection of children."

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

 here is a link with info...
Press Releases Page | OneinFour.org
 
I have looked over this thread and have to agree with Tao-

they really did just pay off the victims so they didnt have to investigate the priests... it's not a lie, or some delusion on Tao's part...

are any priests in this case even being investigated by the police..? no...

In any other organisation if there was such widespread abuse and the public knew, the police would arrest them all. They did not even find themselves a suitable couple of scapegoats, and why is that? Well, then of course we would find out that our new pope, who's a pope fit for burning if ever there was, was the head of child abuse allegations while he was but a cardinal...

As for catholics being the one true church.... how they can say that with a straight face makes a mockery of the faith...

yes, the name catholic means they are the oldest, but not the truest- in case we forget- it has been the Catholics who caused all the great schisms in the church, by REINTERPRETING DOCTRINE... and so in fact, if ur looking for the true church, its more likely to be greek orthodox than catholic...

Pope JP2 was the best pope we'll ever have... he gave a damn! okay yes, he was a traditionalist in most respects, but he did appear to actually like ppl... as for marxism being a danger... JP2 was involved with Solidariat, wasn't he?

anyway... as far as I am concerned, Ratzinger is a **** stirrer... he wants to make catholicism more conservative than before... he wants to take the mass back to Latin, he wants to make his silly comments about Buddhists, and if you listen to what he says he wants a catholic-muslim war... he is evil, and he is dangerous, and I hope next time he takes a turn in the popemobile a sharp shooter helps him back to God...
 
Cardinal Mahoney announced that to help pay for the deal, the church would sell a building it owns on Wilshire and about 50 other properties they weren't using, which reminded me, oh yeah, the Catholic Church owns more property out here than Bob Hope did -- and why? Oh, yeah, because it's a business -- and not just a business, really, the greatest business in the world, in that, like all religions, it's selling an invisible product. It doesn't really get easier than that, unless you count Edgar Bergen, a ventriloquist on the RADIO.

The total payouts for abuse cases in dioceses all over America is now over $2 billion, and I imagine much of it came from people who went to Church and bought the invisible product by dropping their hard earned money into the basket (Full disclosure: when I was a child, that was my favorite part of the mass, and my father often let me put a quarter in). I wonder what those people think when they see that their money got spent on buying the privilege of touching and f***ing kids.

Bill Maher
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Chris
 
For a very very long time in the village my parents are from and probably everywhere else in Cyprus anyone who considers or becomes a priest is often viewed quite suspiciously. In some superstition if you see a priests image appear in your coffee cup they are considered as a bad oman. While all that time in the rest of europe priests were viewed as holy people and right under there noses were abusing children. What you have to question is, who is most likely to become a priest? In the old days it was sexually perverted people even gays or people who had problems developing partnerships.
 
Postmaster said:
What you have to question is, who is most likely to become a priest? In the old days it was sexually perverted people even gays or people who had problems developing partnerships.
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Now I would not go to that extreme...while I'd say a percentage have some sort of issue, be it a control trip or power trip (similar situations with politicians, career military, police officers, security guards...etc again not all but a significant percentage)... Over the years in speaking with folks in the US it does appear their are seminaries/monastaries which are known to be gay friendly...and that is scary... But again I believe this to be a small percentage... It is said 10% of the population is gay...figure out what percentage of the population is molesters....I think the church has issues mostly because of the cover ups, of protecting a small percentage of miscreants, but the same protection that the law allows a civilian in regards to the confessional also applies to the priest...this itself is the conundrum that confounds the situation...one the church needs to come to grips with.
 
It is true that the Catholic church has no bigger a share of deviants within its ranks than any other organisation, religious or secular. As we recently discussed on another thread the people who commit these terrible acts actively seek out positions that facilitate their sick desires. Every organisation that deals with children and has its members in a position where child grooming is a possibility should have a realistic system of monitoring in place and stringent checks on the individuals it employs. Here in the UK the government has recently introduced lie detector tests for deviants seeking parole. I think that every organisation dealing with children should make use of the same. Those who have nothing to hide and work with children for all the right reasons should have no issue embracing such checks. After all you cannot tell just by looking at someone what their hidden desires may be. Paedophiles are on the whole a devious and cunning group and for this we need a radical re-think on how to combat them and protect our children. Organisations such as the Catholic Church, as a supposed leader in moral issues should be taking the lead in this. Instead as we see it is just as devious and deceptive as the perpetrators of the heinous acts and as such is complicit in them.

Tao
 
Tao_Equus said:
And you think Church policy of moving accused abusers from one church to another rather than having the police deal with them would not have been raised in court? That the question of culpability would not have been raised? The church has long attempted to keep a lid on this, the $660 million can only be viewed as a last effort to keep the silence and involves the victims of abuse signing non-disclosure contracts.
Sorry Q, but I see not only the people who committed the abuse as guilty but those who knowingly allowed it to continue and tried in every way to hide it.

Tao
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I believe that would be called "Accessory after the fact". And I agree they are just as guilty. That is why they are being forced to resign.
 
I am very interested in what everyone has to say on this, and I think everyone has raised valid points on all sides.

Postmaster said:
What you have to question is, who is most likely to become a priest? In the old days it was sexually perverted people even gays or people who had problems developing partnerships.
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(my emphasis)

I'm sure we all know this, but I want to point out for the sake of certainty: Pedophiles molest children. Some are gay; most self-identify as straight, whether they molest boys, girls, or both. Postmaster, I know you're not saying here that homosexuality is synonymous with child molestation, but I want to address that before anyone takes us off on that tack. One can as easily say that all heterosexuals are rapists because some heterosexual men rape women.
 
Postmaster said:
What you have to question is, who is most likely to become a priest? In the old days it was sexually perverted people even gays or people who had problems developing partnerships.[/COLOR]
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Er, was it?

This kind or arbitary condemnation is a like saying:

Harold Shipman murdered people;
Harold Shipman was a doctor;
ergo — all doctors are murderers.

When I was young, it was Scout Masters — I mean, anyone who goes camping with children has got to be a paedophile, right?

I mean, why else would anybody want to spend time with kids? I mean, lets be reasonable.

Thomas
 
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