worship or serve the Christ?

[mee]

God does not share his glory with any other, yet here you are quoting 2 Peter 1:17. So thank you for explaining to everyone how Jesus is God. For Jesus to receive honor and glory from God means he has to be God as well for that which is written to remain true. Honor and glory to the Son, Amen.

so who did Jesus recieve this honor and glory from ?as we can see from the verse it was from his father, i think you would have to change the verse to say he recieved the honor from himself . but as we can see he recieved it from God.
For he received from God the Father honor and glory, when words such as these were borne to him by the magnificent glory: "This is my son, my beloved, whom I myself have approved2 PETER 1;17stick to the pure word of God and you cant go wrong .
And to him there were GIVEN rulership and dignity and kingdom, that the peoples, national groups and languages should all serve even him. His rulership is an indefinitely lasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom one that will not be brought to ruin.Daniel 7;14

 

[BlaznFattyz]

For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. For God sent forth his Son into the world, not for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him. JOHN 3;16-17

Only God is everlasting life, only God is salvation. Thank you again for explaining how Jesus is God, since he is also everlasting life and salvation. May all find everlasting life through our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, Amen.

 

[BlaznFattyz]

so who did Jesus recieve this honor and glory from ?...but as we can see he recieved it from God.
For he received from God the Father honor and glory, when words such as these were borne to him by the magnificent glory: "This is my son, my beloved, whom I myself have approved2 PETER 1;17

Again you have explained that God is giving his glory to the Son. That is possible because Jesus is also God. For Jesus to have the Glory of God and for it not to contradict God not sharing his glory with any other, Jesus is God and he and the Father are one.

 

[mee]

Thank you again for explaining how Jesus is God, quote]..................................................................................................... lets stick to true bible teaching shall we . lets listen to what Jesus taught
do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and dispatched into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, I am God’s Son?"JOHN 10;36
(John 14:28) YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am going away and I am coming [back] to YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am............. and as
(Luke 1:35) says .... In answer the angel said to her: "Holy spirit will come upon you, and power of the Most High will overshadow you. For that reason also what is born will be called holy, God’s Son................. and
(Matthew 14:33) Then those in the boat did obeisance to him, saying: "You are really God’s Son."............... and

(John 1:34) And I have seen [it], and I have borne witness that this one is the Son of God."...................and
(John 20:31) But these have been written down that YOU may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, and that, because of believing, YOU may have life by means of his name....................and
(Matthew 16:16) In answer Simon Peter said: "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." ............i could go on and on with bible truth , but some refuse to accept that Jesus is Gods son , and instead take on manmade doctrines that twist pure bible teachings . stick to the bible and you will not go wrong .

(Acts 9:20) and immediately in the synagogues he began to preach Jesus, that this One is the Son of God.​

(Hebrews 1:2) has at the end of these days spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things.​

(1 John 4:15) Whoever makes the confession that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, God remains in union with such one and he in union with God.
(Matthew 3:17) Look! Also, there was a voice from the heavens that said: "This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved."
(Luke 9:35) And a voice came out of the cloud, saying: "This is my Son, the one that has been chosen. Listen to him."...................for those who want to stick to pure bible teaching it is very clear indeed that Jesus is not God ,but he is Gods son . but many have strayed from pure bible teachings and instead have taken on manmade doctrines like the TRINITYand it has misled many many people .sticking to true bible teachings leads to great blessings . even everlasting life just as Jesus said
This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, AND of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. john 17;3 nice

 

[mee]

Again you have explained that God is giving his glory to the Son. That is possible because Jesus is also God. For Jesus to have the Glory of God and for it not to contradict God not sharing his glory with any other, Jesus is God and he and the Father are one.

i think the scriptures explain very clearly indeed that Jesus is Gods son , but many people have many of their own thoughts out of line with the bible .

 

[Faithfulservant]

i think the scriptures explain very clearly indeed that Jesus is Gods son , but many people have many of their own thoughts out of line with the bible .

Gods son would be God...

a Man would have a Man for a son...

2 + 2 = 4

 

[BlaznFattyz]

but some refuse to accept that Jesus is Gods son , and instead take on manmade doctrines that twist pure bible teachings . stick to the bible and you will not go wrong .

then stop refusing. you stated scripture that states god gives glory to jesus, yet you know that god does not share his glory with any other. you are either in denial and brainwashed or backpeddling trying to undue the mistake you made in posting scripture that supports jesus is god and they are one. truth is jesus is god from god. everyone knew at that time what the name son of god meant like many of us know now, that statement means he is making himself equal to god, god in the flesh dwelling among us. and this is the teachings of the word of god and by the spirit thru the church. jesus christ is the glory of god, full of grace and truth.

 

[pattimax]

for those who are confused between the two words:

serve /sɜrv/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[surv] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation verb, served, serv·ing, noun
–verb (used without object) 1. to act as a servant.
2. to wait on table, as a waiter.
3. to offer or have a meal or refreshments available, as for patrons or guests: Come early, we're serving at six.
4. to offer or distribute a portion or portions of food or a beverage, as a host or hostess: It was her turn to serve at the faculty tea.
5. to render assistance; be of use; help.
6. to go through a term of service; do duty as a soldier, sailor, senator, juror, etc.
7. to have definite use: This cup will serve as a sugar bowl.
8. to answer the purpose: That will serve to explain my actions.
9. (in tennis, badminton, handball, etc.) to put the ball or shuttlecock in play with a stroke, swing, or hit.
10. to be favorable, suitable, or convenient, as weather or time.
11. Ecclesiastical. to act as a server.
–verb (used with object) 12. to be in the service of; work for.
13. to be useful or of service to; help.
14. to go through (a term of service, imprisonment, etc.).
15. to render active service to (a sovereign, commander, etc.).
16. to render obedience or homage to (God, a sovereign, etc.).
17. to perform the duties of (a position, an office, etc.): to serve his mayoralty.
18. to answer the requirements of; suffice: This will serve our needs for the moment.
19. to contribute to; promote: to serve a cause.
20. to wait upon at table; act as a waiter or waitress to.
21. to carry and distribute (portions of food or drink) to a patron or a specific table, as a waiter or waitress.
22. to act as a host or hostess in offering (a person) a portion of food or drink: May I serve you with some tea and cake?
23. to act as a host or hostess in offering or distributing (a portion or portions of food or drink) to another: They served tea and cake to their guests.
24. to provide with a regular or continuous supply of something.
25. (in tennis, badminton, handball, etc.) to put (the ball or shuttlecock) in play.
26. to treat in a specified manner: That served him ill.
27. Law. a. to make legal delivery of (a process or writ).
b. to present (a person) with a writ.

28. to gratify (desire, wants, needs, etc.).
29. (of a male animal) to mate with; service.
30. to operate or keep in action (a gun, artillery, etc.).
31. Nautical. to wrap (a rope) tightly with small stuff, keeping the turns as close together as possible.
–noun 32. the act, manner, or right of serving, as in tennis.
—Idiom33. serve one right, to treat one as one deserves, esp. to punish justly: It will serve you right if she never speaks to you again.

and then...

wor·ship /ˈwɜrʃɪp/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[wur-ship] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -shiped, -ship·ing or (especially British) -shipped, -ship·ping.
–noun 1. reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred.
2. formal or ceremonious rendering of such honor and homage: They attended worship this morning.
3. adoring reverence or regard: excessive worship of business success.
4. the object of adoring reverence or regard.
5. (initial capital letter) British. a title of honor used in addressing or mentioning certain magistrates and others of high rank or station (usually prec. by Your, His, or Her).
–verb (used with object) 6. to render religious reverence and homage to.
7. to feel an adoring reverence or regard for (any person or thing).
–verb (used without object) 8. to render religious reverence and homage, as to a deity.
9. to attend services of divine worship.
10. to feel an adoring reverence or regard.

WORSHIP Human response to the perceived presence of the divine, a presence which transcends normal human activity and is holy.

SERVICE Work done for other people or for God and the worship of God.
Jacob served for Laban seven years for each of his wives (Gen. 29:15-30)
Service could be slave labor (Ex. 5:11; Lev. 25:39; 1 Kings 12:4; Isa. 14:3; compare Lam. 1:3),
farm work (1 Chron. 27:26)
daily labor on the job (Ps. 104:23).
It could be service of earthly kingdoms (2 Chron 12:8; compare 1 Chron. 26:30),
of God’s place of worship (Ex. 30:16; compare Num. 4:47; 1 Chron 23:24)
of God’s ministers (Ezra 8:20) and of God (Josh. 22:27).
Not only people do service; God also does service (Isa. 28:21).
Even righteousness has a service (Isa. 32:17).
Service at its best is worship.
This involves the service of Temple vessels (1 Chron. 9:28)
of worship actions (2 Chron. 35:10; compare Ex. 12:25-26)
of bringing offerings (Josh. 22:27),
of priestly work (Num. 8:11)
The New Testament similarly speaks of service (Matt. 27:32)
slave labor done for Christ’s sake (Eph. 6:7; Col. 3:22; compare Phil. 2:30)
worship (Rom. 9:4; Heb. 12:28)
Hebrews 1:14 talks of the ministry of angels. Being in an army is also service (2 Tim. 2:4)

If you are going to use a dictionary when reading the bible, might I suggest a bible dictionary?

 

[mee]

you stated scripture that states god gives glory to jesus, ................. iquote] I did indeed that is very true .
Keep this mental attitude in YOU that was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. 7 No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and came to be in the likeness of men. 8 More than that, when he found himself in fashion as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient as far as death, yes, death on a torture stake. 9 For this very reason also God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every [other] name, 10 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, 11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father...........phillipians 2;5-11 so then, even though Jesus used to be in heaven with his father before he came to earth , remember Jesus had a pre-human life in heaven before he came to earth , so he had a spirit body like his father when he lived in heaven, so he was existing in Gods form in that he was a spirit in heaven like his father is . but he emptied himself and allowed himself to be born as a human on the earth with a flesh and blood body. and when he was on earth he humbled himself and became OBEDIENT as far as death , and it is for this reason that he was exalted BY GOD TO A SUPERIOR POSITION. and it was TO the glory of God the father....YesJesus certainly was an obedient son , he was obedient to his fathers purpose and he saw it through to his death. so obedienence to his father led to greater things , a superior position . As we can see obedeience leads on to better things , and that applies to us as well .And as God said, listen to Jesus .
"Also, there was a voice from the heavens that said: ‘This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.’"—MATTHEW 3:17.
(Luke 9:35) And a voice came out of the cloud, saying: "This is my Son, the one that has been chosen. Listen to him."

 

[BlaznFattyz]

you stated scripture that states god gives glory to jesus, ................. iquote] I did indeed that is very true .

great, thank you.

 

[mee]

great, thank you.

The true God JEHOVAH has given Jesus great aurthority ,as Daniel 7;13-14 tells us , Jesus being obedient to the true Gods purpose , and working inline with the true Gods purpose will accomplish everlasting life for those who are also inline with Gods purpose . Jesus is always in submission to his father , that is because as Jesus said himself , the father is greater than he is .
Jesus knew that he was not equal to his Father but in every way was in a subordinate position. He knew that he was a beloved Son who had deep love for his Father. That is why, time and again, Jesus made statements such as the following: "The Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he beholds the Father doing." (John 5:19) "I have come down from heaven to do, not my will, but the will of him that sent me." (John 6:38) "What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me." (John 7:16) "I know him [God], because I am a representative from him, and that One sent me forth." (John 7:29) The one who does the sending is the superior. The one who is sent is the lesser, the servant. God is the sender. Jesus is the one who is sent. They are not the same. As Jesus expressed it: "A slave is not greater than his master, nor is one that is sent forth greater than the one that sent him."—John 13:16.

 

[mee]

Mee.. How many times have you and I been back and forth on this..

quote]
and through it all, the bible still teaches that the father is greater than the son . and as Jesus himself said ,
YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am going away and I am coming [back] to YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am. john 14;28
because I have come down from heaven to do, not my will, but the will of him that sent me. JOHN 6;38

(John 20:17) Jesus said to her: "Stop clinging to me. For I have not yet ascended to the Father. But be on your way to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and YOUR Father and to my God and YOUR God.’"​

(1 Corinthians 11:3) But I want YOU to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man; in turn the head of the Christ is God.​

(1 Corinthians 15:28) But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.​

(Philippians 2:6) who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God..............so then we should really listen to Jesus because he knew what his relationship was with his father, and Remember the voice that said the following ,
(Luke 9:35) And a voice came out of the cloud, saying: "This is my Son, the one that has been chosen. Listen to him."
"Also, there was a voice from the heavens that said: ‘This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.’"—MATTHEW 3:17.
Jesus mentioned God’s superiority when the mother of two of the disciples asked that her sons sit one at the right and the other at the left of Jesus when he came into his Kingdom. He answered: "This sitting down at my right hand and at my left is not mine to give." (Matthew 20:23) If Jesus had been almighty God, it would have been his to give. But it was not. It was his Father’s to give. Similarly, when relating his prophecy about the end of this system of things, Jesus stated: "Concerning that day or the hour nobody knows, neither the angels in heaven nor the Son, but the Father." (Mark 13:32) Had Jesus been God Almighty, he would have known that day and the hour. But he did not know because he was not the All-knowing God. He was God’s Son and did not know everything that his Father knew.

 

[BlaznFattyz]

Jesus is always in submission to his father , that is because as Jesus said himself , the father is greater than he is .

Jesus was not denying that He was God. He was merely acknowledging the fact that He was also a man. Because Jesus is both God and man. As a man, he was in a lesser position than the Father. He had added to Himself human nature (Col. 2:9). He became a man to die for everyone's sins. And as a man he was subject to the laws of God so that He might redeem those who were under the law; namely, sinners (Gal. 4:4-5).

A comparison can be found in the marriage relationship. Biblically, a husband is greater in position and authority than his wife. God has put the man as the head of the family, but, he is no different in nature and he is not better than she. They share the same nature, being human, and they work together by love. And they are one flesh.

Phil. 2:5-8, "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross."

Col. 2:9, "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,"

Gal. 4:4-5, "But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, in order that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons."

Heb. 2:9, "But we do see Him who has been made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone."

 

[Faithfulservant]

I agree the Father is greater than the Son but they are BOTH GOD.

 

[Quahom1]

arrg. this is a really difficult one. the word in aramaic is "yilpechun" which can definitely mean "worship", yet it is clear that it is the "bar nasha" that is meant, although we're all really clear that you don't worship the messiah. i guess for once my problem would be the same as yours, leo, except that we wouldn't agree on who the messiah was, of course. i shall investigate.

b'shalom

bananabrain

Easy fix. Jesus Himself said He is the focal point to the Father (who gets the worship). He never said to worship Him. It is easy for me to fathom because of my Catholic background. One does not pray to saints for example, and employ saints to intercede on their behalf before the Lord.

Jesus pretty much told us the same thing.

just a thought.

as an aside: I never go directly to the Father in my prayers. I go through Jesus, first. Makes sense to go through an exec before approaching the CEO in a big business...

v/r

Q

 

[BlaznFattyz]

to a man one can give honor and respect to, like bowing to a king.
but to god, either in heaven, or walking among us, he is worshipped and receives it.

 

[Quahom1]

to a man one can give honor and respect to, like bowing to a king.
but to god, either in heaven, or walking among us, he is worshipped and receives it.

But HE, "Jesus" never asked us to "worship" Him. He asked/commanded us to worship the Father, and to come to the Father through Him...do you see my point. Jesus never took credit for what He did, and never expected credit from us to Him. This part of God is not demanding worship. He asks us to go through Him, in order to "worship" the Father...there is something there we seem to be missing.

The Father is well pleased in the obedience of the Son...and there is a reason for that. Maybe we are missing the forest for the trees?

When I think of the Father, I see myself on bent knee in His presense. And I stay there the whole time. But not with Jesus. For when I drop to my knees (both of them), He picks me up quicker than I can blink. Then He beckons me to run with Him (along the path of my life).

I think that the Father allowed a part of Himself to become the Son, in order to walk and run with man. And there is a reason for that. (at least it makes personal sense to me).

I understand this because I am a father, but I was also a son for a time, and I understand what my own sons are going through, and know they appreciate when I reflect on being a son, to them.

Maybe, God is telling us through Jesus, been there, done that, own the tee shirt, got the holes to prove it, and I still love you, even more than before...

Don't get me wrong Blaze. Jesus is GOD. He's just a variation of God that we can personally identify with, and we do not worship that which we can identify with. Adore, yes. Look to for help, yes. Love, yes. Try to be like, yes. Depend on, Yes. Look to salvation because of, YES. But this version of God was not designed for worship, but rather the focal point of worship to the Father...

Case in point Blaze: I pray to the Father formally, but I talk to Jesus in a New York second, and I cuss and I swear, and I get upset, and I laugh at myself, and I tell Him all my dirty laundry (confess to the Lord)...I wouldn't dare attempt to do that to the Father. Protocol...

In my world, The Father is "High Mass" with the three piece suit, the Sunday dresses and bonnets, communion and the full sermon (1rst/2nd Readings and the Gospel), homily, benediction et al.

Jesus is Guitar Mass, with blue jeans, open necked shirt, have a conversation during the service, lots of songs never to be sung in High Mass. Same readings, Gospel, homily, benediction et al...but not the same attitude toward God.

God the Son as Jesus is my Lord and FRIEND. God the Father is my Lord and FATHER.

I think alot of people look at the Trinity that way...

v/r

Q

edit: I just thought of something. We don't worship our friends...we serve them. I think Jesus was quite clear on that. But we do worship the Father.

 

[BlaznFattyz]

But HE, "Jesus" never asked us to "worship" Him. He asked/commanded us to worship the Father, and to come to the Father through Him...do you see my point. Jesus never took credit for what He did, and never expected credit from us to Him. This part of God is not demanding worship. He asks us to go through Him, in order to "worship" the Father...there is something there we seem to be missing.

no he never demanded worship for he came to serve, but those whose eyes were opened saw that the son god was among them, and in acknowledging that, they worshipped him, and christ received it.

Matt. 4:10 - "Then Jesus *said to him, 'Begone, Satan! For it is written, "You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only."’"​

Matt. 2:2 - "Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star in the east, and have come to worship Him."​

Matt. 2:11 - "And they came into the house and saw the Child with Mary His mother; and they fell down and worshiped Him; and opening their treasures they presented to Him gifts of gold and frankincense and myrrh."​

Matt. 14:33 - "And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, "You are certainly God’s Son!"​

Matt. 28:9 - "And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him."​

John 9:35-38 - "Jesus heard that they had put him out; and finding him, He said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?" 36He answered and said, "And who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?" 37Jesus said to him, "You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you." 38 And he said, "Lord, I believe." And he worshiped Him."​

Heb. 1:6 - "And when He again brings the first-born into the world, He says, 'And let all the angels of God worship Him.'"​

 

[mee]

Gal. 4:4-5, "But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, in order that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons."

quote] Yes God certainly did send his son to the earth, just as the bible teaches us .

(Matthew 3:17) Look! Also, there was a voice from the heavens that said: "This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved."​

(John 8:42) Jesus said to them: "If God were YOUR Father, YOU would love me, for from God I came forth and am here. Neither have I come of my own initiative at all, but that One sent me forth.

(John 3:16) "For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life....................... and we dont need any manmade doctrines such as the Trinity, for it to make complete sense.Jesus had a pre-human life in the heavens with his father before he was sent to the earth , and that is where he came forth from . NO we dont need any added doctrines for the bible to make perfect sense ,but many people have been misled by manmade doctrines .

 

[mee]

I agree the Father is greater than the Son but they are BOTH GOD.

you seem to have added other thoughts on to that verse.
Jesus Christ himself said, "The Father is greater than I am" and referred to the Father as his God, "the only true God." (Joh 14:28; 17:3; 20:17; Mr 15:34; Re 1:1; 3:12) On numerous occasions Jesus expressed his inferiority and subordination to his Father. (Mt 4:9, 10; 20:23; Lu 22:41, 42; Joh 5:19; 8:42; 13:16) Even after Jesus’ ascension into heaven his apostles continued to present the same picture.—1Co 11:3; 15:20, 24-28; 1Pe 1:3; 1Jo 2:1; 4:9, 10.