worship or serve the Christ?

[mee]

As to being confusing,
I dont believe that verse read And without controversy GREAT IS THE CONFUSION of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.



I see no confusion in that.

the trinity teaching is a great confusion, and is not a bible teaching .
WHAT is one of the major stumbling blocks that separates Muslims and Jews from the religions of Christendom? It is the teaching of the "Most Holy Trinity." What does this dogma state? The Trinity was defined in the Athanasian Creed as the worship of "one God in Trinity . . . The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God; and yet they are not three gods, but one God." Each is said to be eternal, to be almighty, with none greater or lesser than another; each said to be God, and yet together being but one God. Theologians describe it as a mystery. but God is not a God of confusion.Jesus is Gods son just as the bible teaches. we dont need to add the trinity mystery to the bible.

 

[BlaznFattyz]

Just because the word "trinity" is not in the Bible doesn't mean that the concept is not taught. The word "monotheism", "omniscient", "omnipresent", "omnipotent" are not in the Bible either, yet the Bible teaches it also. You don't have to use the word trinity if you do not want to, and because you do not understand it yet doesn't make it invalid. The Trinity doctrine is arrived at systematically by looking at the whole of scripture, not by looking at a single verse and then trying to discredit what the bible is teaching so it goes along with what a magazine is teaching. When one studies the entire bible and thinks for oneself, one can see that God is three persons, and worshiping and serving the Son is worshiping and serving God. Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. And there are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons. And that all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honours not the Son honours not the Father who sent him.

 

[Basstian]

Jehovah is the english translation of a word no one is quite sure how to spell or pronounce due to the fact it was not to be used in everyday conversation and yet people try to "Confuse" others by claiming they have a "Truth" ..tsk tsk

The first English translators of יְהֹוָה believed they had the correct vowel points, and translated it as it was written:​

"Jehova" in 1270 A.D. Latin.
"Iehouah" in 1530 A.D. English.
"Iehovah" in 1611 A.D. English.
"Jehovah" in 1769 A.D. English.
"Yehowah" used by some using another transcription of the consonants of the Tetragrammaton​

Ref Wiki
Now to me that is Confusing
I could take a few verses out of context here as well

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

hmmm taken outta context that could devistate a door to door ministry

Let me give you some simple ones that are hard to take out of context maybe that would be less confusing.

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

and

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

there is a smiley where the little guy is banging his head against a brick wall ... we need to add that one to the list we have also.

 

[mee]

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

quote]
very true we dont need to add on any manmade doctrines like the trinity teaching . sticking to Jesus teachings is the way to go , but for centuries many have been misled by the trinity teaching and people nowadays even get to believe that it is a bible teaching . false religious leaders have a lot to answer for

 

[BlaznFattyz]

[
very true we dont need to add on any manmade doctrines like the trinity teaching . sticking to Jesus teachings is the way to go , but for centuries many have been misled by the trinity teaching and people nowadays even get to believe that it is a bible teaching . false religious leaders have a lot to answer for

it is not manmade, its taught in the bible.

 

[mee]

it is not manmade, its taught in the bible.

As i said ,many have been misled down the centuries so that people think it is a bible teaching when it is no such thing at all.

Trinity​

Definition: The central doctrine of religions of Christendom. According to the Athanasian Creed, there are three divine Persons (the Father, the Son, the Holy Ghost), each said to be eternal, each said to be almighty, none greater or less than another, each said to be God, and yet together being but one God. Other statements of the dogma emphasize that these three "Persons" are not separate and distinct individuals but are three modes in which the divine essence exists. Thus some Trinitarians emphasize their belief that Jesus Christ is God, or that Jesus and the Holy Ghost are Jehovah. Not a Bible teaching.
.

 

[BlaznFattyz]

As i said ,many have been misled down the centuries so that people think it is a bible teaching when it is no such thing at all.

Trinity​

Definition: The central doctrine of religions of Christendom. According to the Athanasian Creed, there are three divine Persons (the Father, the Son, the Holy Ghost), each said to be eternal, each said to be almighty, none greater or less than another, each said to be God, and yet together being but one God. Other statements of the dogma emphasize that these three "Persons" are not separate and distinct individuals but are three modes in which the divine essence exists. Thus some Trinitarians emphasize their belief that Jesus Christ is God, or that Jesus and the Holy Ghost are Jehovah. Not a Bible teaching.
.

its not according to a creed, for it is already there, creeds just articulate and organize this concept for churches to share.

 

[Basstian]

And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, (Before he was Healed)

But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines
the commandments of men.
Its pretty important when you step into
doctrine you have it right. Other wise your worship of Jesus, God or whatever name you want to call him is worthless or vain.

So I ask if doing a historical study of the doctrine of a Christian particular denomination how far do you want go in saying its man made? I believe at some point people are going to feel its an attack on their core beliefs and the result will not be a comparative study and lead to hurt feelings. The Bible can get pretty sharp.

 

[mee]

But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines
the commandments of men.
Its pretty important when you step into
doctrine you have it right. Other wise your worship of Jesus, God or whatever name you want to call him is worthless or vain.

very true , no matter how sincere a person is in their beliefs, if it is not according to accurate knowledge of the bible it is worthless.
Without accurate knowledge, we may become ensnared by false teachings promoted by God’s opposer, Satan the Devil, who is "a liar and the father of the lie." (John 8:44)

 

[BlaznFattyz]

very true , no matter how sincere a person is in their beliefs, if it is not according to accurate knowledge of the bible it is worthless.
Without accurate knowledge, we may become ensnared by false teachings promoted by God’s opposer, Satan the Devil, who is "a liar and the father of the lie." (John 8:44)

right, so thats why Christians believe in the trinity, because thats how god manifests himself and that is what the bible teaches.

 

[bob x]

Christ Himself never claims that He is God Himself.
Except at His trial, which got Him executed

He said no such thing at the trial.

And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

Thomas did not address Jesus as Lord or God (if that had been so, the Greek "vocative case" would be used), he exclaimed "My Lord and my God", in astonishment at seeing Jesus alive, and giving the credit to God for the miracle. This is a big difference.

 

[mee]

right, so thats why Christians believe in the trinity, because thats how god manifests himself and that is what the bible teaches.

show me where Jesus said that , i dont think i have read in the bible the word trinity ,or that God will manifest himself as a three in one God . it all comes from outside the bible ,and it is a great apostacy from pure bible teachings .stick to pure bible teachings and you will no longer be misled .

 

[mee]

right, so thats why Christians believe in the trinity, because thats how god manifests himself and that is what the bible teaches.

true christians do not take on board apostate trinity teaching. misled people have been led astray by false teachings(trinity) its a very big deception.and many have been led astray by it ............
"The early Christians, however, did not at first think of applying the [Trinity] idea to their own faith. They paid their devotions to God the Father and to Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and they recognised the . . . Holy Spirit; but there was no thought of these three being an actual Trinity, co-equal and united in One."—The Paganism in Our Christianity.

 

[BlaznFattyz]

true christians do not take on board apostate trinity teaching. misled people have been led astray by false teachings(trinity) its a very big deception.and many have been led astray by it ............
"The early Christians, however, did not at first think of applying the [Trinity] idea to their own faith. They paid their devotions to God the Father and to Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and they recognised the . . . Holy Spirit; but there was no thought of these three being an actual Trinity, co-equal and united in One."—The Paganism in Our Christianity.

you calling the trinity false, deception, led astray, paganism on a christian forum is getting annoying and tiring to say the least. its not even discussion anymore when many have shown you verses where jesus, the holy spirit, and the father are all god, and you continue to bash christianity.

 

[wil]

true christians do not ...

..its not even discussion anymore ... and you continue to bash christianity.

Namaste all,

I think this is a perfect example of what we need to work on in this world.

Unless I am wrong both Blazn and mee consider themselves Christian. As we discussed on this thread, Jesus said the most important thing is forgiveness, all your worship, prayers, serving, offerings are for not unless you've made peace with your brother.

So yes we have differences of opinion. We have hundreds of denominations, and it is not just JWs that don't believe in the Trinity yet do believe in Christ's salvation. And if we were not arguing about this it would be some other nuance. Think of the splits of the various denominations they may still be Baptist or Methodist but they have to add some other moniker to delineate themselves from the rest because they have some sticking point they cannot agree on.

Jesus does not say we must agree...well...agree with thine adversary...but with our brothers we only need to make peace...

Do any here wish peace? Can we even contemplate peace amongst nations and religions if we can't be civil within our own theology?

 

[Basstian]

stick to pure bible teachings and you will no longer be misled .

OK Here we go.
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: De 6:4

Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers? Mal 2:10

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isa 9:6

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Joh 1:1
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. Joh 1:14

When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. Mat 16: 13-16

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. John 16


That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. Col 2

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1tit 3:16

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1Jon 5


People who are Christians I have just given you enough old and new testament scripture to build profitable doctrine from.

One will Say Jesus is God. He came as God in the flesh and now is God in our hearts speaking to us on a spiritual level. You can build that doctrine and its supported by scripture above.

One will say The Father The Son The Spirit three in one The Father fully revealed in the OT The Son in the new and the Spirit at being fully poured out in that at pentecost. That Doctrine can be fully supported by scripture above.

One can also say Father sent the Son to make a way for us as sinners to come before the Father. Now we can approach the throne boldy calling God Father or abba (dad) as a Son or Daughter and that we will reign with Christ as the Sons of God him being the firstfruits. All Supported


You know what I dont know what I believe I think I could study all my life and I will only come to a full understanding of it when I finish this journey.

I say to you who believes in the trinity... Great doctrine But there is more for you to learn.

You who believes in the Deity of Christ Great doctrine but there is more for you to learn.

You who believes in Jehovah and the Jesus the son. Great Doctrine more for you to learn.

And I close with this little tidbit

And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

 

[Faithfulservant]

Thomas did not address Jesus as Lord or God (if that had been so, the Greek "vocative case" would be used), he exclaimed "My Lord and my God", in astonishment at seeing Jesus alive, and giving the credit to God for the miracle. This is a big difference.

Pathetic attempt and completely untrue

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]My Lord and my God (Ho kurioߠmou kai o qeoߠmou). Not exclamation, but address, the vocative case though the form of the nominative, a very common thing in the Koin?. Thomas was wholly convinced and did not hesitate to address the Risen Christ as Lord and God. And Jesus accepts the words and praises Thomas for so doing. [/FONT]

 

[bob x]

"the vocative case though the form of the nominative, a very common thing in the Koin?"
No. Not for "Lord" (kyrie, in the vocative) or "God" (thee, in the vocative). Those two vocative cases still have not fused with the nominative even in modern Greek (where otherwise the vocative case is dead).
Probably there is a translation glitch and it ought to be "My Lord and *our* God" rendering the Hebrew "Adonay Eloheynu", a very solemn exclamation.

 

[mee]

you calling the trinity false, deception, led astray, paganism on a christian forum is getting annoying and tiring to say the least..

if a person is after truth ,
the light of truth will appeal to them. but staying in darkness will lead to more darkness . casting away manmade doctrines leads us ever closer to the true God, and also more inline with true bible teaching.so the question is do we really want truth inline with bible teaching , or have we allowed ourselves to be misled by the trinity teaching which is not a bible teaching at all . true christianity is what it is all about. and what better place to be than a thread that people go to if they are into the bible . the trinity teaching is not anything to do with the bible, but many down through the centuries have been well and truely misled

 

[mee]

OK Here we go.
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: De 6:4
quote]
very true ,
Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah. DE 6;4
Or, "Jehovah is our God, Jehovah is one [or, there is one Jehovah]." Lit., "Jehovah our God [is] Jehovah one." Heb., Yehwah´ ’Elo·heh´nu Yehwah´ ’e·chadh´.