Then, I presume you are prepared to call Jesus himself, the "ultimate liar", since he was the one to made "hell's existence", as being a viable environment we did not want to be in, quite clear...
Do we (Muslims, Christians and Jews) believe in the same God or not?
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Then, I presume you are prepared to call Jesus himself, the "ultimate liar", since he was the one to made "hell's existence", as being a viable environment we did not want to be in, quite clear...
GlorytoGod
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IMO no.
Allah is not YAHWEH, they are not the same.
Allah is not YAHWEH, they are not the same.
I agree with the above yet i will say, Allah is closer to Yahweh then Jehovah is, the christians make god more humane than the god of the torah, then they attriubute original sin and hellfire.. so its kinda half half..
In acordance with monotheistic principals? yes..
In actuality? No
it is an asumption due to ibrahim.. if you go to a synagogue/mosque/church and call him brahman.. they aint impressed yet still the same god in theory,,
In acordance with monotheistic principals? yes..
In actuality? No
it is an asumption due to ibrahim.. if you go to a synagogue/mosque/church and call him brahman.. they aint impressed yet still the same god in theory,,
PLEASE dont quote Brother Zakir on here..
the vcr arguement is SO bad.. i wish i could say to him..
the day YOU make a vcr with a soul is the day i become sunni..
God knows EVERYTHING except the knowledge of limitation..
the vcr arguement is SO bad.. i wish i could say to him..
the day YOU make a vcr with a soul is the day i become sunni..
God knows EVERYTHING except the knowledge of limitation..
S
sonoman
Guest
I will give my answers as a Christian.
1. Yes, but it's a Plurality, an "Us", a "We", in our human comprehension, e.g. as in Genesis and the Quran.
2. Yes, They are.
3. The Children of God grow up..to become Mom and Dad.
4. What makes you think angels can't be human beings? I know a couple of angelic people..
5. Yes. Heavenly intercessors were sent out to many nations.
6. Yes, any good parent wants the best for their children.
7. What a strange question!
I wouldn't presume unless it were a case of life or death.paulapuddephatt
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Hi! I'm a non-denominational Christian, who is also open to and interested in other faiths. I believe that we are all talking about the same God. I believe that firmly. There is much disagreement on specifics, notably the exact status of Jesus, but Christianity, Islam and Judaism have the same roots.
Muslimwoman
Coexistence insha'Allah
I will give my answers as a Christian.
1. Yes, but it's a Plurality, an "Us", a "We", in our human comprehension, e.g. as in Genesis and the Quran.
2. Yes, They are.
3. The Children of God grow up..to become Mom and Dad.
4. What makes you think angels can't be human beings? I know a couple of angelic people..
5. Yes. Heavenly intercessors were sent out to many nations.
6. Yes, any good parent wants the best for their children.
7. What a strange question!
Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions Sonoman, this is where interfaith dialogue can really begin in my opinion ... when we start to discuss our shared beliefs in G-d.
May I ask if the plurality you speak of is literal (ie seperate beings) or aspects of one being.
I have met some people I would think of as having angelic qualities and of course as I believe in angels there is no reason that I may not have met one without knowing what they are if Allah had given them human form, however I believe they are biologically different to humans.
Muslimwoman
Coexistence insha'Allah
As salam aleykum Andrew
Sorry haven't learnt to multiquote on this new forum yet. Very well done for sticking with this thread for 3 years ... wow you have admirable patience.
I would love to discuss the significant differences, which we all know exist but perhaps by discussing them we can find ways to accept each others beliefs and see that what we all believe in is the same thing, just seen from different sides perhaps. What do you see as the main 'unpassable' differences?
Hi
Please continue the discussion. I do enjoy reading this thread. I learn a lot.
There many scholar and wise people in here
I want to join it but my limited english is trouble me
To answer the subject of this thread, my opinion base on my knowledge about Islam is:
YES, because Muslims, Christians and Jews believe worshiping The Creator of everything.
peace
Please continue the discussion. I do enjoy reading this thread. I learn a lot.
There many scholar and wise people in here
I want to join it but my limited english is trouble me
To answer the subject of this thread, my opinion base on my knowledge about Islam is:
YES, because Muslims, Christians and Jews believe worshiping The Creator of everything.
peace
Welcome to Interfaith Jilan! You can let a slight language barrier sideline you, but then that would not do you, or us much good, now would it?
Besides, how are you going to practice your English? Just don't mind us if we correct you from time to time, on grammar, that is...
v/r
Q
Faithful-Angel
Active Member
Thanks, OzAndy. If modern prophets were to be judged by their ability to offend religious discussion forum owners and members, I think I highly qualify!
It's a dirty job but somebody's got to do it. Somebody's got to come along from God in times where the religious traditions are so corrupted as to produce religious wars killing thousands, making millions more miserable to again, "make straight the Path of God in the bewilderness."
Oh, if I could only tell you all what's at stake now. Only the whole Abrahamic religious traditions, all of them.
Soon I will have my website redone again and all will be revealed.
Hey all,
As What I believe for Islam, Muhammad (SAW) is the last prophect to save Al-quran... what? More? Prophect in modern times.
as quoted from you:" Somebody's got to come along from God in times where the religious traditions are so corrupted as to produce religious wars killing thousands, making millions more miserable to again" As informed, Al-quran is saved till now. having imams or high spirtual leaders to reminds us again from human corruption... I don't see why we need a modern prophect to inform us on religion when the answers are most there...
salaam, peace to all
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Marsh
Disagreeable By Nature
Hi Muslimwoman. While I understand the point you are trying to make (i.e. that Muslims, Christians, and Jews do all share some basic common ground), I feel your approach is too simple. For example, if I was to ask you the following questions, how would you answer:
Were you created by God?
Do you have emotions and feelings?
Do you have a purpose in life?
Do others depend on you?
Do you experience dreams?
Are you loved by others, and do you feel love for others?
I would answer yes to all of these questions. So would my cat. Thus, the problem with either-or choices is that they are much too simplistic to be useful. So while it's admirable that you are searching for common ground I really don't think you'll be able to find what you are looking for. However, my question is and has always been why is this common ground necessary? Why try to fit pieces together if they clearly don't fit? It's like trying to harmonize music with a 3/4 measure with that of a 4/4 measure, because both will sound beautiful on their own, but together they will clash, so it's better to accept them for what they are: distinct.
On these grounds, I agree wholeheartedly that the degeneration of the discussion into a "my religion's better than yours" fest is counterproductive.
Marsh
Disagreeable By Nature
Then, I presume you are prepared to call Jesus himself, the "ultimate liar", since he was the one to made "hell's existence", as being a viable environment we did not want to be in, quite clear...
What Jesus said about Hell is unclear, Q. When he said that it's better to be without a hand than to have your whole body thrown into Hell, did he mean that Hell was the sentence for sinners when they die, or that it is the final judgment at the end of the age as described in Revelation? It's fine to believe either way, as everyone is entitled to their own interpretation of scriptures, but just because one believes one is true doesn't mean that the other could not be true.
I think this last sentiment is suitable for this entire thread, actually...
citizenzen
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In physics there are four forces: Electromagnetism, Gravity, the Strong Force, and the Weak Force. While these four forces may look quite different and distinct, there is a growing consensus that they are actually the same force and that only through our limited perspective and understanding do we see them as distinct and not unified.
This is how I see our respective religion's view of God. I'm convinced that the cultural lenses through which we view God creates the illusion of separateness and that coupled with the animosity and suspicion we hold for foreign cultures makes it almost impossible to accept that their God originates from the same source as our God.
As something of an outsider (Buddhist) it's perhaps easier for me to not get lost in the desire to create this separation. I don't have a horse to root for in this race. But I do welcome the discussion and believe that through this dialogue we'll have an opportunity to bring these factions closer together.
Marsh
Disagreeable By Nature
Nice analogy.
I can see what you mean, and to an extent I definitely agree with you. As a Christian, I know many other Christians who object to Islam and Judaism (particularly Islam because it's so pop culture to have an opinion these days) for no logical reason; simply because they are not Christians. I don't consider myself to be among them. Being married to someone from the other side of the world has given me a crash course in cross-cultural relations, so I feel confident when I say that the reason I don't feel that I have much in common (spiritually) with Muslims and Jews is not because of any cultural difference; it's because of Jesus Christ.
From the outside, it sure does look like Christians, Muslims and Jews share much in common, and so I could easily imagine that a Buddhist could look at the interactions between us and take it as petty squabbling. But from where I'm standing it is not nearly that trivial. My faith in Jesus Christ is at the very centre of my relationship with God (Allah, YHWH). It's not some sort of minor religious detail that can be set aside for the time being while we discuss our relationship with God (Allah, YHWH); its essential to my faith-- as essential as Muhammed's distinction as the last prophet is to Muslims, and as waiting for the coming of the Messiah is for Jews. These are not trivial factors that we can just set aside, because once you set them aside you find that there is little purpose left in what you believe. Why be a Jew if you don't believe that a Messiah will come and restore your nation? Why be a Muslim if you don't believe that Allah gave the true scriptures to Muhammed? Why be a Christian if you don't believe that Jesus Christ is your saviour? What I'm trying to say is that we all believe in God, but the idea that we can put the essentials of our faith aside and retain the same relationship we have with God is idealistically foolish.
The differences between us don't exist because we've given ourselves labels; we've subscribed to labels because of the irreconcilable differences between us.
smkolins
Bahá'í
But the implications of the cross-religious blinds causes gaps in appreciation. The Old Testament praises as no other a Persian King who acted righteously - would that *any* leader would act as wisely today.
Jesus was found in the manger by, from all understanding, three Zoroastrians following their own prophecy and yet Zoroastrians also have links to Hinduism and both to Buddhism.
If Jesus was born ~5BC then the year 666 was 661AD and a year of catastrophe for Islam when the two sects of Sunni and Shi formed and this in a religion which abhors devision and muslim-on-muslim strife.
If these things are real then there are a lot of implications to our blindness. In every religious tradition there are diverse approaches. Some emphasize the personal savior quality of the Founder of their religion while others hold to the teachings and mission and some just try to live the life of virtue. These exist in parallel among all the religions to my understanding.
shawn
Well-Known Member
I have read that when there were Jews living in around Egypt (I am not sure as to the date, but it was after Mohammad ) they would us the word Allah to refer to Hashem.
My opinion (as an ex-christian) is that there is one Creator/Source, but nobody has ever really understood who or what that is.
There has been many interactions throughout mankind's history with "higher beings", who came from the sky.
I think that we are being toyed with.
Earth is like a zoo of sorts and more advanced beings have been messing with us for millenium, perhaps right from the start (whenever that really was).
Heaven or hell, they do not exist except in the feverish dreams and fears of religious fanatics, but they serve as most excellent carrot and stick for inducing large groups of people to think in certain ways.
The same for the concept of a final judgment.
There is one True God. All else are idols. Unless one knows the Father in Truth, one believes in a different diety. Although many study the same books or trace back their line to the same ancestry, many believe their own concepts of who the Father is rather than understanding who He actually is. And so even in Christianity, there are many different Gods but only one True Yahweh Elohim ("He who will be the Mighty Ones"). My Father is not the same as most mainstream Christians, let alone other religions. It is your duty to search out this Truth.
Marsh
Disagreeable By Nature
If you're trying to make a connection between this 666 and the mark of the Beast in the Revelation of Jesus Christ, be aware that the mark refers to a name and not a time.
Those may have been Zoroastrians, or may not have been. In any case, what's the significance? They figure into the Bible for a couple of chapters, and are never mentioned again.
The Bible praises lots of people who weren't Israelites. It also criticizes and denounces many people who were. Again, what's the significance? Does praise for a Persian king carry any deeper meaning?
This is precisely the reason why this cross-religious stuff falls short: the same idea takes on a different significance depending on one's perspective. You may call it blindness, but I call it honesty.
666 does refer to a name. There have been many interpretations of what name(s) it could be. I have heard that it represents the line of emperors after Christ to Constantine as well as other things. Which would add to the man with the iron rod in Chapter 12 being Constantine and the true Church (or woman) fleeing to the wilderness after the birth of this man while the Red Dragon or apostate church (also called the Whore of Babylon later) is cast down after reigning in the (political) heavens for 1260 days (years) and controlling the stars (kings) in the sky and is now on earth (amongst the people) to wage war upon the woman (true church).
The mark of the beast is different from the number. It has been said that the mark of the beast is the cross and at a time in the dark ages, men could not buy or sell without a cross marked on their forehead and their hand showing that they were Catholics. This practice is still used today on Ash Wednesday.
The second point you made Marsh is also true. The Israelites were constantly rebelling against the Lord. The Lord also moves through the nations, meaning reigns over all nations (Psalms 47:8). The Lord sets them up and lets them fall according to his will and specific purposes. Daniel 10 shows this (with Cyrus) as Gabriel, one of the only angels mentioned by name, tells Daniel that he was struggling against the Prince (or King) of Persia (Cyrus as mentioned at the beginning of the Chapter) for 21 days and needed help from Michael. First of all, the least of the angels could kill one hundred thousand men in one night, so this is not talking about a physical struggle. This passage is talking about a persuasive struggle, for the one thing an angel cannot do is interfere with free will (see Jacob, Lot, Balaam, Moses, etc.). Thus, the angel Gabriel was influencing the King of Persia (Cyrus) to do the Lord's will.
The Bible is scoped to only information pertinent to salvation. If everything was said, there would be too many books to read in a lifetime.