What would say to Jesus?
- Thread starter iBrian
- Start date
Ocean_Drop
World Citizen
Interesting question!
2000 years ago a lot of people seen Him in the flesh but just wanted Him killed, so first of all I'd hope that I'd be numbered with those who did recognise Him as the Messiah!
I guess I'd fall on my knees with my face to the floor and cry... don't know what I'd say! "I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy...."
Seriously though, I don't think I'd be able to utter a word - certainly not the first time I attained to His presence.
Ocean Drop
2000 years ago a lot of people seen Him in the flesh but just wanted Him killed, so first of all I'd hope that I'd be numbered with those who did recognise Him as the Messiah!
I guess I'd fall on my knees with my face to the floor and cry... don't know what I'd say! "I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy...."
Seriously though, I don't think I'd be able to utter a word - certainly not the first time I attained to His presence.Ocean Drop
littlemissattitude
Creative Thinker
I'm afraid that the first thing I would ask him is: "Did you really mean for people to torture and kill and destroy in your name?"
I recognize that lots of good has been done in the name of Jesus. However, it is historically true that milliions of people have been tortured and killed, and much destroyed, with the justification that belief in Jesus required it. So, I think this is a crucial question.
I recognize that lots of good has been done in the name of Jesus. However, it is historically true that milliions of people have been tortured and killed, and much destroyed, with the justification that belief in Jesus required it. So, I think this is a crucial question.
Vajradhara
One of Many
Namaste all,
i think that i'd like to ask him what he did whilst he was wandering in the desert. that is the question that i'd really like to know....
i think that i'd like to ask him what he did whilst he was wandering in the desert. that is the question that i'd really like to know....
Rakehel
Peacekeeper
I'd ask Him if everything in the Bible was true, and was He a man or God, a man with the spirit of God in Him, or God literally come to earth? I'm wagering the answers would be in parables though, so I'd have even more questions afterwards.
"Master Carpenter huh? Mind helping me build my house?"
"Did you mean religiously taking care of orphans and widows, or is there a religion concerning the same?"
"Were you precocious as a child, or were you quietly reserved?"
"Some insects can walk on water because they are so light in weight that they do not break the surface tension...how did you do it?"
"How did Peter initially do exactly what you did, and how did he falter?" (concerning the water walking part).
"What the hell makes us so special that you would die for us?"
"When I pray, does all of Heaven hear me, or just you and/or the Father?"
"If angels are so powerful (including the fallen ones), why don't they just wipe us out, and be done with it?"
"If Lucifer asked for it, would he be forgiven?"
"Is the six days that God created the Universe, six twentyfour hour, solar days, or six God days (which can be anything according to the Bible)?"
"Who are the 'brothers' we do not yet know, that the Bible talks about?"
"Is it true that man is stronger than angels, but that angels are smarter (more clever) than Man?"
"Why did the angel cheat by breaking the hip of Issac (or was it Jacob), during their all night wrestling match?" (Was the angel about to lose?)
"Could the tower of Babel really reach Heaven if left unchecked?"
"Why does the Bible insist on putting down women, except for those who succumb to the will of God and Man?"
"If woman really is from the rib of Man, why aren't men missing one?"
"Are dinosaur bones really 'dragon bones'?" (the animals obviously existed at one time, yet the closest thing folklore comes to is dragons...)
"Who were the 'Heroes of Old', and who were the 'Giants'?"
"It is a fact that galaxies are thousand of millions of billions of light years away from our own...did you throw them there in an instant, or not?"
"Is this life like the life we knew in the womb of our mothers...just a stepping stone to the next stage?" If so, how many other 'stepping stones' are we going to cross?"
"Did I know everything before I came to this plane of existence?"
"Why are we more afraid of living than we are of dying?"
"I'm having beef and veggies for supper...hungry?"
"What is the end number to PI?"
"How come people can survive a 200 mph crash, then die from a 3 cent bullet?"
"Why does my wife talk to you in her sleep, but denounce you when she is awake?"
"Everytime I look into the eyes of a pauper, while I am giving, I see Christ, and want to cry. But everytime I look into the eyes of a 'Philanthropist', I see nothing, and want to spit in disgust. Why is that?"
questions, questions, questions...I've got a million of them plus.
v/r
Q
"Did you mean religiously taking care of orphans and widows, or is there a religion concerning the same?"
"Were you precocious as a child, or were you quietly reserved?"
"Some insects can walk on water because they are so light in weight that they do not break the surface tension...how did you do it?"
"How did Peter initially do exactly what you did, and how did he falter?" (concerning the water walking part).
"What the hell makes us so special that you would die for us?"
"When I pray, does all of Heaven hear me, or just you and/or the Father?"
"If angels are so powerful (including the fallen ones), why don't they just wipe us out, and be done with it?"
"If Lucifer asked for it, would he be forgiven?"
"Is the six days that God created the Universe, six twentyfour hour, solar days, or six God days (which can be anything according to the Bible)?"
"Who are the 'brothers' we do not yet know, that the Bible talks about?"
"Is it true that man is stronger than angels, but that angels are smarter (more clever) than Man?"
"Why did the angel cheat by breaking the hip of Issac (or was it Jacob), during their all night wrestling match?" (Was the angel about to lose?)
"Could the tower of Babel really reach Heaven if left unchecked?"
"Why does the Bible insist on putting down women, except for those who succumb to the will of God and Man?"
"If woman really is from the rib of Man, why aren't men missing one?"
"Are dinosaur bones really 'dragon bones'?" (the animals obviously existed at one time, yet the closest thing folklore comes to is dragons...)
"Who were the 'Heroes of Old', and who were the 'Giants'?"
"It is a fact that galaxies are thousand of millions of billions of light years away from our own...did you throw them there in an instant, or not?"
"Is this life like the life we knew in the womb of our mothers...just a stepping stone to the next stage?" If so, how many other 'stepping stones' are we going to cross?"
"Did I know everything before I came to this plane of existence?"
"Why are we more afraid of living than we are of dying?"
"I'm having beef and veggies for supper...hungry?"
"What is the end number to PI?"
"How come people can survive a 200 mph crash, then die from a 3 cent bullet?"
"Why does my wife talk to you in her sleep, but denounce you when she is awake?"
"Everytime I look into the eyes of a pauper, while I am giving, I see Christ, and want to cry. But everytime I look into the eyes of a 'Philanthropist', I see nothing, and want to spit in disgust. Why is that?"
questions, questions, questions...I've got a million of them plus.
v/r
Q
so?
the simple fact of the matter is most of us just wouldnt believe anyhow, we could go back in time and i bet, 9 out of 10 of you who would meet the christ wouldnt have enough faith in him to humble yourselves as much as you think you would
its no surprise that jesus had to go through so much just to get us to believe in him..oh and guess what..theres still a vast majority of us who dont believe in him, hahaha
amitabha
the simple fact of the matter is most of us just wouldnt believe anyhow, we could go back in time and i bet, 9 out of 10 of you who would meet the christ wouldnt have enough faith in him to humble yourselves as much as you think you would
its no surprise that jesus had to go through so much just to get us to believe in him..oh and guess what..theres still a vast majority of us who dont believe in him, hahaha
amitabha
Rakehel
Peacekeeper
Zazen, do you mean humble ourselves enough to ask Him the questions, or humble ourselves enough to accept His answers? This too presents many possibilities for a good topic.
I said:
You said to seek, I sought.
I found more than what man has recorded in the Bible and I found some of the hidden wisdom of the Bible, and I learned of sacred balance.
You said to knock, and myriad doors opened to me: both earthly and spiritual doors and the doors of my mind and doors of comprehension of science and of spiritual things.
You said to ask, and still I ask:
Why was man allowed to corrupt your teachings on such a large scale?
And why was man allowed even before you came to ignore the Shekinah and to teach the lie of male superiority?
And when will come a savior of womankind to earth so that everyone will understand this?
And did you really say to Thomas in that apocryphal book that women could go to heaven only after being turned into men, for a place of only men is not for me, even in the spirit. Or were you speaking again of reincarnation; as being born again of spirit, that we will each live & experience being both and all other conditions of humans before reaching a state of worthiness and enlightenment such that we can be with the Originator of all Light?
Who is the Queen that is protected in the Revelation story and what is that story revealing?
And did you ever really meet a guy named Saul of Tarsus, or was he just tired of his job and liked the idea of becoming a revered teacher/evangelist?
(Since he could read the thoughts of the Samaritan woman, I suppose this would only take milliseconds, so I could go on with many more questions. And if he answered in parables, I would keep asking until he explained them too. Since he promised "it shall be given" he would be breaking his word if he would not give me answers.)
Marsh
Disagreeable By Nature
And he would answer, "No, don't be silly."
Why would you blame Jesus for what people did? If you want to use history like a weapon, then you first must gain a better understanding of it. I'm assuming that the tragedies you are referring to are things such as the Holocaust, the salem witch trials, the crusades, the inquisition, colonization of the new world, and the Ku Klux Klan. In some of these cases, people used the Bible as a weapon; as a tool to justify their personal agendas of hatred and lust for power. But find me the passage where Jesus says that he wants his disciples to assimilate the world through colonization, or that he wants them to hang Blacks-- Christian Blacks for that matter-- in the postbellum south.
I think you would have had a fairly short conversation with him.
littlemissattitude said:
Why would you blame Jesus for what people did? If you want to use history like a weapon, then you first must gain a better understanding of it. I'm assuming that the tragedies you are referring to are things such as the Holocaust, the salem witch trials, the crusades, the inquisition, colonization of the new world, and the Ku Klux Klan. In some of these cases, people used the Bible as a weapon; as a tool to justify their personal agendas of hatred and lust for power. But find me the passage where Jesus says that he wants his disciples to assimilate the world through colonization, or that he wants them to hang Blacks-- Christian Blacks for that matter-- in the postbellum south.
I think you would have had a fairly short conversation with him.
Pathless
Fiercely Interdependent
"So, Jesus, have you seen The Passion of the Christ?"
bob x
Well-Known Member
Well, there is the passage "I am not come to bring peace, but a sword; I will divide the members of a family, three against two and two against three". I think he was aware that his message would cause a lot of misunderstanding, strife, and violence. Was it worth it?Marsh said:
Marsh
Disagreeable By Nature
bob x said:
Yes, I know this passage well. Let me ask you a question: has all of the strife and violence that you are thinking about happened because of these words, or would it have happened anyways? After all, there was bloodshed in the world long before Jesus. Do you really think that the people responsible for tragedies such as colonial massacres were motivated by this verse? Do you think any of them had actually read the Bible, or if they did that they understood it, or believed in it?
Jesus preached a very simple message: Repent, and you will be forgiven. And 99% of everything we read about him in the Gospels follows directly from this message, from his opening sermon to his forgiveness of the man crucified beside him. And yet some people have indeed used his words as a rationale for destruction. But consider for a moment, hypothetically, that Jesus had never existed and the Gospels were never written: Don't you think that these people-- criminals as they were-- would have found something else to twist in order to rationalize their crimes?
The Nazis began as a group not unlike the KKK: white protestants who were racist against Jews, Catholics, and (we can deduce) all other religions except protestant ones. By the end, Hitler was developing a scheme to create a new religion of state-worship, not unlike the emperor-worship of the Roman Empire. Was Christianity really a part of the Nazi agenda? From state-worship to violence to intolerance and hatred, all of the evidence points to the negative.
The Crusades, in fact, were no different because they were never commanded. The Catholic church, for all intents and purposes, declared war upon the Muslims of the middle-east, making them enemies of the church. Jesus told us to love our enemies to the point that if they take our shirt, we should oblige them. To analogize the situation, the Muslims had 'taken' (in the eyes of the church; in reality it belongs to God) land that belonged to Christians, but the correct response should have been anything except war.
To conclude, violence based on Biblical teachings has happened in spite of, not because of, Biblical teachers.
juantoo3
....whys guy.... ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb
Kindest Regards, Marsh!
Sorry to "but" in, but I understood Hitler to have signed a Concordat with the Vatican, establishing Catholism as the officially recognised religion of Nazi Germany. My two cents, otherwise a great post!
Marsh
Disagreeable By Nature
There was no room for Christ in Nazi Germany...
Yes, Hitler had signed an agreement with the Vatican. He also signed a non-aggression pact with the Soviet Union a couple of years before he invaded it.
I found this at the following website: http://www.sovereignfellowship.com/tos.php?sec=52. Like all secondary historical sources, its content of truth is questionable. Nevertheless...
The Religion of Socialism
By Christopher Holloman Hansen
Winston Churchill said, "There are two places only where socialism will work; in heaven where it is not needed, and in hell where they already have it."
It is not particularly surprising that Winston Churchill used these religious eternal destinations when speaking about the political philosophy of socialism. Several of Churchill's contemporaries also understood, but unlike Churchill, advocated this Religion of Socialism. It was and is well understood that socialism is the very antithesis of Christianity.
Hitler was an aggressive proponent and even assigned his henchman Heinrich Himmler to found the Religion of Socialism.
"And Heinrich Himmler, who had started to draw up the new National Socialist religion, followed the command of his Füehrer."
"The Füehrer was satisfied and he held out a prospect of a reward which would tie him to the accomplishment of the task: it would be him and his SS which, once the Füehrer had passed away, should take care of the most important relic of his religion, the foundation myth itself - in the shape of the mortal remains of Hitler himself." (From Holocaust History Project Chapter 48: The Guardian of Paradise)
But this socialist religion was not just the dream of Hitler but merely an altered version of the "god-builders," a group of failed Marxists that advocated the founding of a new "socialist" religion with the aim of reconciling Marxism with religion. This group included Maxim Gorky, A. V. Lunacharsky, V. Bazarov. (see: MATERIALISM AND EMPIRIO-CRITICISM [Part I] from FOREIGN LANGUAGES PRESS PEKING 1972)
The establishment of this Socialist Religion was not just to offer an alternative to Christianity but is intended as its complete replacement.
Martin Bormann stated in a secret decree of the Party Chancellery signed by him and distributed to all Gauleiters on June 7, 1941:
"Our National Socialist ideology is far loftier than the concepts of Christianity, which in their essential points have been taken over from Jewry. A differentiation between the various Christian confessions is not to be made here the Evangelical Church is just as inimical to us as the Catholic Church. All influences, which might impair or damage the leadership of the people exercised by the Füehrer with the help of the NSDAP must be eliminated. More and more the people must be separated from the churches and their organs the pastors. Just as the deleterious influences of astrologers, seers and other fakers are eliminated and suppressed by the State, so must the possibility of church influence also be totally removed. Not until this has happened, does the state leadership have influence on the individual citizens. Not until then are the people and Reich secure in their existence for all time." (Nazi Conspiracy & Aggression, Volume I)
The book continued to add to the evidence: Regierungsrat Roth, in a lecture September 22, 1941, to a group of Security Police, in the Reich Main Security Office (RSHA) concluded his address on Security Police measures for combating church politics and sects with the following remarks:
"The immediate aim: the church must not regain one inch of the ground it has lost. The ultimate aim: Destruction of the Confessional Churches to be brought about by the collection of all material obtained through the intelligence service (Nachrihtendienst) activities which will at a given time be produced as evidence for the charge of treasonable activities during the German fight for existence."
Yes, Hitler had signed an agreement with the Vatican. He also signed a non-aggression pact with the Soviet Union a couple of years before he invaded it.
I found this at the following website: http://www.sovereignfellowship.com/tos.php?sec=52. Like all secondary historical sources, its content of truth is questionable. Nevertheless...
The Religion of Socialism
By Christopher Holloman Hansen
Winston Churchill said, "There are two places only where socialism will work; in heaven where it is not needed, and in hell where they already have it."
It is not particularly surprising that Winston Churchill used these religious eternal destinations when speaking about the political philosophy of socialism. Several of Churchill's contemporaries also understood, but unlike Churchill, advocated this Religion of Socialism. It was and is well understood that socialism is the very antithesis of Christianity.
Hitler was an aggressive proponent and even assigned his henchman Heinrich Himmler to found the Religion of Socialism.
"And Heinrich Himmler, who had started to draw up the new National Socialist religion, followed the command of his Füehrer."
"The Füehrer was satisfied and he held out a prospect of a reward which would tie him to the accomplishment of the task: it would be him and his SS which, once the Füehrer had passed away, should take care of the most important relic of his religion, the foundation myth itself - in the shape of the mortal remains of Hitler himself." (From Holocaust History Project Chapter 48: The Guardian of Paradise)
But this socialist religion was not just the dream of Hitler but merely an altered version of the "god-builders," a group of failed Marxists that advocated the founding of a new "socialist" religion with the aim of reconciling Marxism with religion. This group included Maxim Gorky, A. V. Lunacharsky, V. Bazarov. (see: MATERIALISM AND EMPIRIO-CRITICISM [Part I] from FOREIGN LANGUAGES PRESS PEKING 1972)
The establishment of this Socialist Religion was not just to offer an alternative to Christianity but is intended as its complete replacement.
Martin Bormann stated in a secret decree of the Party Chancellery signed by him and distributed to all Gauleiters on June 7, 1941:
"Our National Socialist ideology is far loftier than the concepts of Christianity, which in their essential points have been taken over from Jewry. A differentiation between the various Christian confessions is not to be made here the Evangelical Church is just as inimical to us as the Catholic Church. All influences, which might impair or damage the leadership of the people exercised by the Füehrer with the help of the NSDAP must be eliminated. More and more the people must be separated from the churches and their organs the pastors. Just as the deleterious influences of astrologers, seers and other fakers are eliminated and suppressed by the State, so must the possibility of church influence also be totally removed. Not until this has happened, does the state leadership have influence on the individual citizens. Not until then are the people and Reich secure in their existence for all time." (Nazi Conspiracy & Aggression, Volume I)
The book continued to add to the evidence: Regierungsrat Roth, in a lecture September 22, 1941, to a group of Security Police, in the Reich Main Security Office (RSHA) concluded his address on Security Police measures for combating church politics and sects with the following remarks:
"The immediate aim: the church must not regain one inch of the ground it has lost. The ultimate aim: Destruction of the Confessional Churches to be brought about by the collection of all material obtained through the intelligence service (Nachrihtendienst) activities which will at a given time be produced as evidence for the charge of treasonable activities during the German fight for existence."