madeinrussia89
Well-Known Member
Of course I mean love of Jesus Christ (of course we need it, not sure why you are telling me that), but love of everyone else as well. That is what Jesus teaches us.
Door-To-Door Missionaries
- Thread starter madeinrussia89
- Start date
Of course I mean love of Jesus Christ (of course we need it, not sure why you are telling me that), but love of everyone else as well. That is what Jesus teaches us.
pattimax
Somewhat returning
Not everyone knows that. Stick around for a while and you will see that.
Some folks are satisfied with "one-scoop vanilla love." Doesn't matter whose it is.
Some folks are satisfied with "one-scoop vanilla love." Doesn't matter whose it is.
C
cyberpi
Guest
Love is not measured by what you've received, but by what you've given, right Pattimax?
John 3:21 BUt he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
John 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.
Now I could be wrong, but I'd say there is a pattern to this I in him, and him in me thing. Jesus says that I am his brother if I do our Father's will:
Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Mark 3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.
By Jesus words, I am his brother as I do the will of God. Who here calls Jesus their brother? I am going to call Jesus my brother, along with every other person, alleged Christian or not, whether they perceive it or not, but that does the will of God.
Surely our Father is in you, and you are in God... at least some?
John 3:21 BUt he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
John 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.
Now I could be wrong, but I'd say there is a pattern to this I in him, and him in me thing. Jesus says that I am his brother if I do our Father's will:
Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Mark 3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.
By Jesus words, I am his brother as I do the will of God. Who here calls Jesus their brother? I am going to call Jesus my brother, along with every other person, alleged Christian or not, whether they perceive it or not, but that does the will of God.
madeinrussia89
Well-Known Member
Who cares, as long as they love Jesus and know that Jesus loves them, the rest will come later.
pattimax
Somewhat returning
Matthew 28:18... Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
This is the love.
btw: "Who cares?" Are you a cya Christian?
pattimax
Somewhat returning
I'm not sure what you mean... care to expound?
"Knowing Jesus" is having God in your heart. (You can be at camp...)
Matthew 28:18... Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
This is the love.
btw: "Who cares?" Are you a cya Christian?
No, that isn't love Patti. That was an order to be carried out by the troops. It was also a promise that the high command would back them up.
Love is something totally different.
madeinrussia89
Well-Known Member
A what Christian? I'm Orthodox.
And yes Patty, out of love for us Jesus is always with us, but if you love Jesus and know that he loves you, everything else will fall into place with prayer and repentance.
We don't need to preach the doom and gloom " this is nothing but fluffy ice cream love and you need to be taught a lesson " doctrine.
Dondi
Well-Known Member
I agree with the first quote above, madeinrussia, and some are just fine with hearing the message of "ice cream love". But as an Orthodox Christian, would you agree that the danger of hell exists? If not a real physical place, then a very real separation from God for all eternity? What about all the warnings Jesus gave about hell?
I know the question was for the Russky, but I'm of the opinion that just as the Kingdom of Heaven is now and within us, Hell too is now and around us. When for example a person is so desperate and alone (isolated), to the point of contemplating suicide, they are spiritually, in a kind of hell and seperated from God.
Dondi
Well-Known Member
Granted, I agree. But then you are only dealing with this side of life. What happens to the person who sucessfully commits suicide? What happens to his soul then? Are they still separated from God?
Then again, we aren't just talking about people who are hurting. There are some people who are fine with their life, yet without God. Aren't they separated, too?
I don't know Dondi. The bible says so (about the seperation from God for eternity). And even Jesus states that there are those who will claim to know him, but He will reply that He knew them not, before He sends them away. And I suspect there are humans who will never see the face of God but once, at judgement. But I suspect the number will be less than we think. And since God is out of time and space, alot can happen to a human in the instant before death and the instant after death. Though we may not see it, what could be going on between God and the dying, could be a life time of reflections. I think God gives everyone every possible chance to turn to Him, even at the instant of death.
When you say that there are people who are fine in their life, and the separation from God doesn't affect them, but is that really true? A void can not remain a void. Something must fill it (that is one of the laws of physics). So those without God must have something else taking God's place. And are they in fact fine? Are they really living life as it is supposed to be lived?
I also believe (trying to get back on track with the original thought of this thread), that man sometimes needs a "shocker" to wake them from their lulled dream state that sometimes we mistake for really living.
The man on the bus who announces at large that we must repent and seek God, then sits down...what he just did was challenge us to look into ourselves and ask the question - are we right with ourselves, are we right with God, are we right with our fellow man, are we right with our envirnment?
What angers most people I think, is that deep inside, when forced to reflect, find that part of them is not right, but to admit it would force a choice to remain as is, or change...and not many people like change, even if they are miserable at the time.
Kind of like the flu shot. Many people will avoid it, even though they know it will be best for them in the long term if they take it. The reasons vary, from not liking needles, to suffering the partial symptoms of the flu for a day or two, to fear of introducing a potential health/life altering element into their comfortable and complacent lives.
Those that become angry with the man on the bus...many simply do not want to change the way they are, and accepting Christ would in fact force a change. Others, not so defensive, will consider what was said, and wonder if there is something better than what they've currently got. Others still, will jump at the invitation, because it triggers in them an answer they've been searching for, a long time come. And then there are those who smile, because they already are there...they are close to God, and He to them.
Isn't it interesting that the only one's who complain about the uninvited announcement, are the same ones who do not want change in their lives?
They also apparently do not want others to change their lives either, so they attempt to stop or shut down the "town herold" from delivering his/her news...
Dondi
Well-Known Member
Q said:
We are not going to know the heart of the person we are addressing. When I said that some people are fine with their life, I am going on their outward demeaner and the fact that they have adamantly said that they do not need God in their life. I find in many instances that these people are very vocal about God and religion in general, but not in a positive way. Are they being challenged inside and are expressing a defense? Probably so. They will say most anything to reinforce their belief that there is no God.
I think the conception of there being a void in people's lives is misleading. I simply think that any "void" is filled up with something else.
The purpose of sharing the gospel is to present the alternative. The Cross is going to be an offense. Yet we don't know what effect the Gospel will have on even the most callous person. A seed planted may die right there. On the other hand, it might grow, perhaps slowly. I've seen people come to the Lord after many years of resistence. Often they will say that they wonder why they waited so long. But if our only result is to plant a seed or water one that has already been planted, then our job is done, it is God who will give the increase. It is God's Spirit that will convict. But it will convict according to the Word that they have heard. The two go hand-in-hand.
M
mee
Guest
very true indeed, or it could even be certain religious leaders (who claim to base their teachings on the bible )who realize that what the herald is saying is in line with the bible , and if what the herald is proclaiming is made known publicly ,his own teaching which is not inline with the bible will be shown up as fraud. so he will do his level best to use what ever avenue he can to shut the herald up . and yes it is all fortold in the bible that this would happen . but no worries, when spirit of God reativates those put out of action by religious leaders influence, the results afterwards are great indeed. when the active force of God is behind the reactivation great things are accomplished.
Revelation 11:7-10.
yes the reactivated ones are heralding in a global way along with a great crowd of others who are helping them along the way matthew 24;14 .revelation 7;9-10
its all happening in the time of the end
This is true. God can not nor will ever go after someone who has been given bad information. Furthermore, I think God will not go after the scoffer who may have heard the right words, coming from those who do not practice what they preach. That is the ulitmate oxymoron.
By the "void" I mean this: A person cleans house (heart) and sweeps away all the garbage, then closes the door. Now there is a void, and that man is alone in that void. Human nature being what it is, eventually that man will open the door to what ever is outside it, and let it in, just so he isn't alone, with nothing to do. If he hears the word of God (as notified by the announcer on the bus, for example), then begins to think about God, there will be one of two things... a pounding on the door to man's heart, demanding to be let in, or else...a light knock on the door without another sound. Man's mind's eye, being the window to his heart, can look and see who is at the door. If it is the Lord knocking, because man began to think about God, then He can safely choose to open the door and let the Lord in...
Or it could be Mee, that attitudes like yours (against others of the faith), cause massive confusion and discontent. Still "selling" your brand of faith to the ostrification of other variations, I see. I am not advocating my variation of faith right now, and your intent to advocate yours is misplaced at this point (and not welcome).
M
mee
Guest
those things that i mentioned in my last post happened in the early 1900s , the lastdays started in 1914 and the ones who were making known that , were put out of action for a little while when the religious leaders instigated others to have those making known the goodnews of the kingdom put in prison on false charges . but as the bible informs us they were reactivated . yes the book of revalation is now well along and having the understanding of that last book in the bible is very enlightening indeed. so its not a case of having a certain attitude its a case of having accurate knowledge based on the bible. but many do not like to hear accurate bible knowledge . that is not my fault, or me having a bad attitude to others ,it is just facts made known .
so getting back to the title of this thread , door to door misssionaries. There is plenty of that going on all over the world ..... matthew 24;14 and it is putting people on notice .
Who blasted cares about the "last days"? It is today that matters Mee, and the messenger on the bus was speaking about TODAY. He was saying that we need to take inventory right NOW. Tomorrow, or the end of days is too late. Even being at deaths door is nearly too late.
And door to door missionaries are a pain in the ass. The disciples did not go door to door. They entered a town and went to the square. Then, they were or were not "invited" into homes. They did not walk into a private plot of land un announced.
Door to door missionaries are soliciters, with a bad edge, called guilt. Far far more people have come to Christ from watching Christians in everyday life and asking them what they had, than door knockers intruding on private lives. Faith is a private thing, but expressing faith is for the public and not to be forced down anyone's throat.
That is why I personally close the door on any missionaries who knock at mine.
I forgot to mention, there is a fifth element that ticks people off...those claiming to being Christians, but who's agenda is to gather more members/parishoners/sheep, for their own (Not God's) purposes.
I don't hate missionaries, but I damn sure hate what they do, when they intrude where they were not invited, on my personal property.
"I'm a Christian, I say". Then I'm lectured on how I'm the wrong type of Christian? Stuff that. That to me is God being made in some "man's" image...no thanks.
madeinrussia89
Well-Known Member
Of course hell exists, but we're not focused on Hell, we're focused on salvation and the kingdom of heaven.
The person doesn't just go straight to hell, it's not " Hey look, another suicide, we know just where to put them *throws them down into hell*" like some people would like to believe. It depends on what is in the person's heart as to what happens to his/her soul, and of course only God can see that. But as long as we know that our God is Merciful and Good, there is no room to worry. The right thing will be done.
And in Orthodoxy, the general concensus is that you can pray for the dead and your prayers can help them, and some of their sins that can be pardoned may be pardoned because of it. We think that nothing is really final until the Last Judgment. But if cannot save anyone who does not wish salvation, something that Father Seraphim Rose expounds upon. But it's not an excuse to live an ungodly life.
Dondi
Well-Known Member
I concede the possibility of a "second chance" after death. I am intrigued by Fr. Seraphim's idea of "Aeriel-Tollhouses". It's similiar to the experience of Howard Storm in his book, "My Descent Into Death". Could you direct me to more references to this?