Instead (of endless arguments,
and attacks), we are going to speak about
Ashrams, and consider
how the many folds of the One Flock might better cooperate. We will do this,
with or without the cooperation - of every, single, incarnate (and discarnate)
brother ... yet we will also affirm,
gently, but without tire or fail ... the existence of the One, Human FAMILY of Souls - and we will seek to speed the day, when
Brotherhood has come to prevail, over all,
unhelpful divisions.
You see, when a person fails to accept (meaning both understand and embrace) the Teachings of the Christ, s/he reverts to a basic separativeness, or separative tendency ... and this is something which characterizes us ALL, to a certain extent - until we reach a high enough Initiation to begin to understand, and experience, and EMBODY - true, underlying, inherent Spiritual UNITY.
We do not
create this, or even
synthesize it, for this is only
one type of Unity, and this is the
willing, personality acceptance of the Divine Pattern, or Archtype, which is
a perfect ONENESS, existing
above all, before all - even transcendent of time, of space and of human conception (thought).
We do not
create the Unity of God. God simply
IS ...
and from THAT (duality only in terms of expression in the conditioned worlds of being), WE emerge.
Where, then,
do we have ROOM - for `separativeness' ... or separation? It is,
we shall all one day discover - only an ILLUSION. And I am no less
correct for echoing this truth, than
Those Who have spoken it - with the AUTHORITY, and the PROOF, of what we call `DIRECT EXPERIENCE.'
Shall you deny the words of the Christ,
"I and the Father are ONE?"
I say again,
what use, what POINT, would be
our emulation of our
Greatest, earthly Teacher ... if our
highest reward, even for
the elect, is to experience - PROXIMITY TO,
yet never quite UNION, or UNITY, with - you bet, THE FATHER?
The question you must ask yourself then,
is - When Christ said, "I and the Father are ONE," was He simply speaking of
something which HE ALONE was capable, IS capable, of experiencing?
Or might He have been a Living Witness to what each, and every, PERSON ... is ALSO capable?
You are absolutely,
100% correct, and IN THE RIGHT, when you tell us, Thomas,
that from your own, personal, Roman Catholic point of view ... you simply
cannot imagine, and really do not even WISH to imagine, what that might be like -- to actually
BECOME the Father, as Christ was able to say.
Nor are we warmed
, at least - not myself (perhaps Nick or Bruce Michael can speak otherwise), when we hear you say something like,
oh, but - Christ already WAS (with, even AS) `the Father,' for you see, THAT (Him) is Who
sent Christ forth, to begin with!
Thomas, if you argue this,
as you might like, you have not helped to
draw us closer to God, much less to
show God as being accessible to us, at all! All you (will have) have said, is something which
we already believe, and assert, and simply choose to express in terms, even perhaps in an Eastern presentation, which is/are - either unfamiliar to you, or maybe just not to your liking. But this does not change the veracity, one bit.
What am I talking about? Simple.
Christ was sent forth, by the Father ... and WHAT do you tell us
was his GOAL? WHY did Christ thus come forth, and teach us, and
work the many Good Deeds, and `Miracles' - which we know perfectly well that He did?
It will, I suppose,
pain you to know, or to contemplate, that
for many of us with the Theosophical mindset, and background, HPB symbolizes for us
precisely,
and in fact - YES, she IS (for US, I say) - EXACTLY Whom, and what
Christ was, and is, for YOU. Either you can
live with the comparison, and be willing to
explore the connections - just what we (I) could
possibly mean by such a statement ...
or you shall have to be content with your insistence to cry Foul, and to level your charges of Blasphemy!
I can only encourage you, to
pursue further just how it is that
Christ came to the Buddhists, long before He came to the Jews, just as He came to the Hindus before that ...
and to the people of ancient Greece, of ancient Egypt, and yes, to the people of sunken Atlantis (pre-sinking, ya think?), and `Lost Lemuria.'
The historical reference,
even to these lost civilizations, can be found - as you must know - in the teachings of
many world religions - such as the
Popol Vuh of the Mayan Quiché, as well as the
original, Chaldean flood myth, telling of Xisuthrus, become Noah, in the later Hebrew accounts. Yet how shall we recognize
the Christ coming to these earliest of
4th Round people ... if we cannot even consider,
with a mind free from inherent bias and prejudice, that such civilizations, and phases in our distant past,
actually even existed!?!
There was once a
disciple of the Christ, and
for everything that the Teacher would relate, that disciple wanted to know
why! Further, he wanted to have PROOF,
such was his doubt ... that he earned for himself, early on,
the name `Doubter' - while only
after the demanded proof had been shown, he came to be called
`Believer.'
There is something of this disciple in us all
... yet I feel his spirit, if possible, would challenge even the authority of the author of Hebrews 11:1, himself!
In order to proove -
not just a point - but the very TRUTHS which that disciple -
like us all - was & is seeking ... Christ delivered exactly what was
asked, saying: "Thomas, you have believed
because you have seen, blessed are those
who have not seen, and yet believe."
I can tell
you, how it is possible
not to see, and yet
to believe. But I would not,
so presume, or dare to compare myself ... and
that is why, earlier, I asked for your
epistemology. Perhaps the connections are becoming a bit more clear.
My own
epistemology, or at least, what occurred to me
24 hrs ago, sits downstairs, on my other computer, waiting to see if it shall find a table for some discussion ... even just for the
meeting of the minds, as it were.
I cannot
prove to you that
Jesus was a Buddhist. I can, however, ask you to consider,
that there are many good reasons for why some of us believe that it was so - specifically, that what SalamanderRC proposes in the OP,
was, and is, the case.
And if we wish, we can
revisit any, or all, of the
four reasons I have already provided ... why I think Jesus (needed to,
HAD to) make this travels, as also why
the Buddhistic influence, via the Essenses, had
everything to do with his Mission, and his Holy Purpose.
I feel much like a cripple, as we even try to consider this, and you may think that sounds
unkind, but I am merely telling you what it seems like ... as I must,
first, consider that not everyone here necessarily accepts
Rebirth, or
Reincarnation, as `the way things are.'
Already, immediately upon this
forced accession/concession - "No, Thomas doesn't believe this" - I feel, almost literally,
quite crippled.
What would you have me do? No, I do not expect YOU to
necessarily and without hesitation
abandon the notion that our present, physical life
is our only one. Thus, although I must
lose a leg, so to speak, even in order to sit down and converse with you ... it would only be
mean-spirited and inconsiderate of me, to say to you,
"Hey brother, you're leaning on a crutch here, and I wanna see you WALK!"
No, although you might not see it that way at all,
remember, I DO happen to believe in
reincarnation ... just as do Nick, Bruce Michael, perhaps SalamanderRC, and
millions upon millions of others. We don't find it
any easier than you do, to simply -
toss our beliefs out the window, and sit down at a table to a discussion where
such fundamental discrepancies in our belief systems already, clearly exist.
We are, you must realize, just as accustomed as
you are ... to discussion with
like-minded individuals, wherein
many, if not most, of the tenets and ideas are accepted, which we speak of as
`part of our own religion (worldview).' It isn't so much a
shock, as it is just - what we might, truthfully call - something of an
earnest, real-life, honest-to-goodness test ... even of more than our
mettle, so to speak - but really of the very
FIBER of our Being, if you will!
Mettle and fiber,
so to speak ...
and IF you will. How much more would you ask of us? The question, rightly, is only one for
God, the great Task-Master ... Who we must ever try to appreciate is
always offering us
exactly the needed lessons of the moment,
in the gentlest, most enjoyable manner which we ourselves will accept.
I think we are all,
for some reason, hell-bent on
testing God's proverbial patience (Mercy, if we take this idea to the extreme) ... yet it was not the Buddha who
INVENTED a Compassion
deeper than we could possibly imagine,
more Perfect than anything we have yet touched.
Shakyamuni was simply the most recent of the Sons of Men to have discovered ... that's God's Love for us knows no limits, and a certain Christian PARABLE will echo EXACTLY (the reality of) this boundless Love - several centuries afterward - but not because the Nazarene Initiate was pouring over Buddhist scriptures.
From
The Voice of the Silence:"Canst thou destroy divine compassion? . . . Compassion is no attribute. It is the LAW of laws -- eternal Harmony, Alaya's SELF; a shoreless universal essence, the light of everlasting Right, and fitness of all things, the law of love eternal.
"The more thou dost become at one with it, thy being melted in its BEING, the more thy Soul unites with that which IS, the more thou wilt become Compassion Absolute.
"Such is the Arya Path, Path of the Buddhas of perfection" (VS 69-70).
If only the Christian were free to consider,
what it might mean when it is said ... that the Buddha left his
vestitures in the safe-keeping of the
World Teacher, the Christ, imagine what misunderstandings might suddenly be cleared up,
or greatly ameliorated.
The very nature
of `the Wisdom' which some of us study, and seek to honor (embody) -
yes, it is a lofty Ideal ... depends,
utterly, on both
The Buddha and on
The Christ, even upon
the Maha-Chohan, a certain Count - without Whom, we would probably
not even have one of the newest Hierarchical Ashrams forming among us (
or Externalizing, even as it is newly Created).
Other Masters must even
step these ideas and vibrations down, so that we may receive them ...
precisely as the Christ did, for His disciples, and as
every Master does, for His own students. Once again, we are face to face with
a reason - why
the Nazarene Initiate was required to
go Eastward.
It doesn't seem to occur, does it, to ask,
why did the Christ - situated within the Himalayas - need JESUS, in order to move WESTWARD?
But if we prefer to turn things around,
then YES, the question is equally valid, and
yet is still, the same invitation to seek beyond that which is familiar to us. Who is the greater
authority, the Master - or the
student who sits at His feet?
The student must learn to recognize the Master
everywhere, yet he must also learn
to follow the Master's instructions obediently, and unfailingly, at times. His very life,
and even those of his fellow students, quite possibly, may
depend upon it.
How did the Master respond, when asked - `How we might SERVE Him?'
And what does His response -
teach us about Service?
Even for me, this is some kind of
marathon. So, for a bit of rest ...
Namaskar
{I realize, that the more I write, the more we are not all,
not very likely, upon the same page, regarding
Masters. This could be a good thread for those of us who
do accept Them as a reality ... so maybe we can go back and revisit a thing or two that you have already posted, elsewhere,
Nick and Bruce Michael.
}