greymare
Well-Known Member
I rather like that observation, brucey. (who is hobson?)
M
mee
Guest
Hobson's choice - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[SIZE=-1]A Hobson's choice is a free choice in which only one option is offered, and one may refuse to take that option.
[/SIZE]
M
mee
Guest
Is It Wrong to Drink Alcoholic Beverages?
not according to the bible
nice drop of red YUM YUM
(Ecclesiastes 9:7) Go, eat your food with rejoicing and drink your wine with a good heart, because already the [true] God has found pleasure in your works.
(Ecclesiastes 10:19) Bread is for the laughter of the workers, and wine itself makes life rejoice; but money is what meets a response in all things.
not according to the bible
nice drop of red YUM YUM (Ecclesiastes 9:7) Go, eat your food with rejoicing and drink your wine with a good heart, because already the [true] God has found pleasure in your works.
(Ecclesiastes 10:19) Bread is for the laughter of the workers, and wine itself makes life rejoice; but money is what meets a response in all things.
greymare
Well-Known Member
not being disrespectful, but why is it only wine mentioned? never anything else. wasnt other alcohol around in those days??/ im curious. (Obviously not cocktails and liquers but you get my drift) I am asking a serious question by the way.
M
mee
Guest
The Bible establishes clearly that from ancient times wine, beer, and other alcoholic beverages have been consumed. (Genesis 27:25; Ecclesiastes 9:7; Nahum 1:10)
i found 2 places where beer is mentioned
Although they are being interwoven even as thorns and they are drunken as with their wheat beer,(Or, “their liquor.” )they will certainly be devoured like stubble fully dry......NAHUM 1;10
Their wheat beer( Or, “Their liquor.” Heb., sov·’am′.)being gone, they have positively treated [woman] as a harlot. Her shielders have positively loved
dishonor. Hosea 4:18
pattimax
Somewhat returning
Alcohol was not distilled until around 500 a.d.
pattimax
Somewhat returning
Mate.. Always have this issue with JW's.... If you are going to say it is WRONG to smoke cigarettes.. Or smoke a joint, hit a pipe, take a shot to the arm... whatever... Then it is wrong to sip your precious lil wine....
The argument I always get from JW's is... It's ok to drink if you drink to a certain limit and control yourself... bs. If that is the case then all I mentioned before hand is then valid if certain limits and self control are in place..... They are all damaging.... And they can all mess with your head.... So if you can have "just a lil whine' I can have just a few smokes.... How am I wrong and you right? That is just hypocritical lol....
Far be it from me to defend the JW's, but they do not have a lock on moderation...
Alcohol and cigareretes are LEGAL. The bible says a whole lot about the law.
M
mee
Guest
Smoking tobacco, while reportedly pleasurable, actually involves inhaling concentrated pollutants into the lungs. A smoker pollutes his body, as well as his clothes and the air around him. In addition, smoking is an addiction.
The Bible says: “Let us cleanse ourselves of every defilement of flesh and spirit.” (2 Corinthians 7:1) Smoking is without doubt a defilement, or a pollution, of the flesh.
If we follow the Bible principle about staying clean from defilements of the flesh, we will be protected from the serious health hazards of smoking, as well as drugs and other defilements.
Bruce Michael
Well-Known Member
Ethanol addiction is like any other addiction, and some people will not be able to give it up. All drugs have deleterious effects on the body and mind.
Odyssey House | Odyssey House McGrath Foundation A Rehab centre has found that this year alcohol was the number one drug of addiction that they treat.
LIVENEWS.com.au > National > Girls 'prostituting themselves for beer'
For those who are "holy unto the Lord" total abstaining is the only way to go.
.
Nazirite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The nazirite is described as being "holy unto the LORD" (Numbers 6:8)
Samson (Judges 13:5), and Samuel (1 Samuel 1:11) -both were total abstainers as was John the Baptist.
People who say the Bible says they can drink are talking through their wrong end. There is one spirit you need and that is the Spirit of God- not some lousy imitation that comes in a bottle. Of course if your religion is lacking spirit then it is understandable that you'd turn to the bottle. Human beings seek the spirit and get it any way they can. It is interesting how alcohol addiction is so prevalent in the atheistic, materialistic skeptic community.
There is nothing about LSD, marijuana, cocaine or other drugs in the Bible- but that doesn't mean they're bad for just like ethanol.
The Rastafarians smoke marijuana and claim it is a herb (as mentioned in Genesis). There is nothing in the Bible about not smoking marijuana.
Christians shouldn't take drugs because in essence it is an entirely selfish practice, and effects their ability to make good decisions.
It wasn't really all that long ago (first half of the 20th century) when cocaine (coca cola), opium, absinthe and marijuana were legal. Alcohol was banned as well - as it is today in some countries. Prohibition didn't work because of criminal activity- the same criminal activity we see in the drug world today.
Prohibition never works. It is better to create a place way out of town where those who use drugs can go. Tax them and use the money on drug education. This would tend to stop most of the criminal activities surrounding drugs.
The increasing use of drugs and alcohol is a sign that a culture is in decay.
In Christ,
Br.Bruce
Odyssey House | Odyssey House McGrath Foundation A Rehab centre has found that this year alcohol was the number one drug of addiction that they treat.
LIVENEWS.com.au > National > Girls 'prostituting themselves for beer'
For those who are "holy unto the Lord" total abstaining is the only way to go.
.
Nazirite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The nazirite is described as being "holy unto the LORD" (Numbers 6:8)
Samson (Judges 13:5), and Samuel (1 Samuel 1:11) -both were total abstainers as was John the Baptist.
People who say the Bible says they can drink are talking through their wrong end. There is one spirit you need and that is the Spirit of God- not some lousy imitation that comes in a bottle. Of course if your religion is lacking spirit then it is understandable that you'd turn to the bottle. Human beings seek the spirit and get it any way they can. It is interesting how alcohol addiction is so prevalent in the atheistic, materialistic skeptic community.
There is nothing about LSD, marijuana, cocaine or other drugs in the Bible- but that doesn't mean they're bad for just like ethanol.
The Rastafarians smoke marijuana and claim it is a herb (as mentioned in Genesis). There is nothing in the Bible about not smoking marijuana.
Christians shouldn't take drugs because in essence it is an entirely selfish practice, and effects their ability to make good decisions.
It wasn't really all that long ago (first half of the 20th century) when cocaine (coca cola), opium, absinthe and marijuana were legal. Alcohol was banned as well - as it is today in some countries. Prohibition didn't work because of criminal activity- the same criminal activity we see in the drug world today.
Prohibition never works. It is better to create a place way out of town where those who use drugs can go. Tax them and use the money on drug education. This would tend to stop most of the criminal activities surrounding drugs.
The increasing use of drugs and alcohol is a sign that a culture is in decay.
In Christ,
Br.Bruce
M
mee
Guest
or they could even be reading their bibles
The Bible mentions the pleasures and benefits of drinking moderately. For instance, Psalm 104:15 states that one of God’s gifts is “wine that makes the heart of mortal man rejoice.” And the reward for doing good works, says Ecclesiastes 9:7, is to “eat your food with rejoicing and drink your wine with a good heart.”
but many people make up manmade rules not based on accurate bible knowledge .
pattimax
Somewhat returning
Xavier Breath
Active Member
Alcohol, marijuana, nicotine, and other drugs (as well as many non-drug forms of addiction or abuse or simple use) are, in my humble opinion, all similar in one respect: for some, they are seen as acceptable enjoyment of God's bounty, while for others they are seen as "polluting", and therefore "sinful".
As an aside, I am always tickled to see that we as humans have a natural tendency to see the "sins" of others as being unacceptable, while our own are "ok". Wine is ok, but marijuana or tobacco are not...
I think that the whole alcohol and drugs thing is really a question of IDOLATRY. If wine (or whatever) becomes your God, then you are in trouble.
Here is the Bible on the subject of consumption of "forbidden meat" (food sacrificed to idols):
As an aside, I am always tickled to see that we as humans have a natural tendency to see the "sins" of others as being unacceptable, while our own are "ok". Wine is ok, but marijuana or tobacco are not...
I think that the whole alcohol and drugs thing is really a question of IDOLATRY. If wine (or whatever) becomes your God, then you are in trouble.
Here is the Bible on the subject of consumption of "forbidden meat" (food sacrificed to idols):
Hearkening back to the revelation to Peter featuring the descending and ascending blanket with unclean beasts, God's invitation to Peter to "Eat", and God's stern "there is no thing unclean of itself", (see Acts 10, 11) We are in no position to condemn any of God's creation. However, we are required to be mindful of our role as ambassadors of God in a strange land, and as such we are to avoid confusing our neighbors with mixed messages which they, in the infancy of their knowledge of God, might not understand. To put this practically, when you are in the company of those who see Christianity and alcohol use (or whatever) as mutually exclusive, refrain from drink so as not to create a crisis for them. If for you it is a sin, then it is. If for you it is not a sin, then it is not; but shame on you if you partake of this liberty and cost another their chance to know God!
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Xavier Breath
Active Member
By the way, the first time grape juice could be stored without becoming wine all by itself was at the beginning of the 20th century, when a Baptist preacher named Welch (!) pasteurized grape juice so it would keep for communion use. In biblical times, the health hazards of wine were far less than the health hazards of water!
M
mee
Guest
sorry i am a bit thick i am not with you
M
mee
Guest
very true ,
Wine is a ridiculer, intoxicating liquor is boisterous, and everyone going astray by it is not wise. PROVERBS 20;1
(Ephesians 5:18) Also, do not be getting drunk with wine, in which there is debauchery, but keep getting filled with spirit,
holy spirit that is
Woe to those who are getting up early in the morning that they may seek just intoxicating liquor, who are lingering till late in the evening darkness so that wine itself inflames them! isaiah 5;11
it could become idolatry
(1 Peter 4:3) For the time that has passed by is sufficient for YOU to have worked out the will of the nations when YOU proceeded in deeds of loose conduct, lusts, excesses with wine, revelries, drinking matches, and illegal idolatries.
M
mee
Guest
yes, the yeast on grape skins ferment so it becomes wine naturally , and Jesus drank it .
pattimax
Somewhat returning
Hi,
I'm with Br. Bruce on this one. I can't say I've seen any good come from using drink or any of the other stuff. I like to think G-D wants us to be sober of mind and healthy of body.
As Mee has pointed out, the Bible takes both sides of this argument, as it does on many others. Maybe some of the scribes liked to drink and some of the others only saw it as something damaging. So Mee, as you look around, how do you see it?
.02
Joe
I'm with Br. Bruce on this one. I can't say I've seen any good come from using drink or any of the other stuff. I like to think G-D wants us to be sober of mind and healthy of body.
As Mee has pointed out, the Bible takes both sides of this argument, as it does on many others. Maybe some of the scribes liked to drink and some of the others only saw it as something damaging. So Mee, as you look around, how do you see it?
.02
Joe
Bruce Michael
Well-Known Member
People hear what they want to hear Mee- according to their addictions.
Prescription drugs, ecstasy and marijuana "makes the heart of mortal man rejoice". That's why folk do it in the first place- they want a high.
Those who are "holy unto the lord" make an effort to set an example in purity. The Apostle Paul did not drink alcohol for that very reason.
I understand when my brothers and sisters fall into drug and alcohol use, for the flesh is weak. But it would be remiss of me not to remind them of the correct behavior for a Christian. We abstain because it is right to abstain.
And yes, there was no alcoholic wine at the Last Supper.
In Christ,
Br.Bruce
I beg to differ with you on your last statement. If there is juice from fruit, vegetable or grain, that is even one hour old, it has alcohol in it. that is simply a fact of physics. If sugars are present, alcohol is soon to follow.
Even Welche's Grape juice in a can or bottle has on average 1/2 to 1% alcohol by volume.
That aside, no one knows for certain what type of "wine" might have been consumed at the last supper, but this is certain; it had to be freshly squeezed juice in order to be lacking in quantities of alcohol.
And Paul had an "affliction" that is heretofore undescribed save that it was a "thorn in his side". For all we know he could have been an alcoholic, and had to abstain (hence God's grace was enough for him).
To presume that all people are weak because they imbibe in alcohol, just because one chooses not to is rather arrogant I should think.
The Bible does warn and instruct on the use of "strong drink", and does tell us that beer can make a brawler, and wine can make a mocker of people, to be sure. But it is describing the use of such in excess (which is gluttony to begin with).
"Rye Beer" is made from the same grain as "whiskey", but it is understood that the latter is "strong drink" compared to the former. Just as table wine is not the same as "port wine".
Jesus, turned water into the finest "wine" at the wedding in Cannan, the best served last. In a culture that had no prohibitions against alcoholic drink particularly at weddings or celebrations, I doubt it was the best "grape juice", the wine captain was in awe of...
As far as addictions are concerned, well people can become addicted to anything...does that mean we abstain from living?
I think "reasonable" is the term we are looking for here, as well as moderation.
v/r
Q