Is It Wrong to Drink Alcoholic Beverages?

I agree wholeheartedly with Q! And, if the last supper occured at any time but the day of grape harvest (not usually an event associated with Passover), then the "fruit of the vine" HAD TO BE WINE. People can become addicted to anything, that is to say, people can make an idol of anything, including food, sex, and even religion!
There was a Harvard Lampoon album in which a Christian panhandler makes the statement, "I used to be all messed up on drugs, but now I am all messed up on the Lord!"
 
"And yes, there was no alcoholic wine at the Last Supper."
I'm sorry, that is just utterly false. Quahom is correct (however much it may amaze him to hear me say so) that "it had to be freshly squeezed juice in order to be lacking in quantities of alcohol" since refrigeration, bottling, canning, and so on were all technologies completely absent in the 1st century.
And I would add: we know it was not freshly squeezed juice, because it was not the right season for grapes to be ripe. At a minimum, it had been fermenting for six months.
 
bob x said:
"And yes, there was no alcoholic wine at the Last Supper."
I'm sorry, that is just utterly false. Quahom is correct (however much it may amaze him to hear me say so) that "it had to be freshly squeezed juice in order to be lacking in quantities of alcohol" since refrigeration, bottling, canning, and so on were all technologies completely absent in the 1st century.
And I would add: we know it was not freshly squeezed juice, because it was not the right season for grapes to be ripe. At a minimum, it had been fermenting for six months.
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amazed, and humbled.
 
the ewwwww part is for the wine. I only like my beverages hot or cold, not room temperature. LOl. and people who drink a lot of wine end up with big red noses. its true.
 
greymare said:
the ewwwww part is for the wine. I only like my beverages hot or cold, not room temperature. LOl. and people who drink a lot of wine end up with big red noses. its true.
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Not here...it's got to be chilled to near ice conditions...cognac is drunk warm...
 
Joedjr said:
Hi,
I'm with Br. Bruce on this one. I can't say I've seen any good come from using drink or any of the other stuff. I like to think G-D wants us to be sober of mind and healthy of body.
As Mee has pointed out, the Bible takes both sides of this argument, as it does on many others. Maybe some of the scribes liked to drink and some of the others only saw it as something damaging. So Mee, as you look around, how do you see it?
.02
Joe
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it can be very damaging if not used as the bible tells us too, and most people dont give the bible any thought and do things there own way .


thats when the problems start in many things . doing things our own way will only end in tears .


All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.
2 timothy 3;16-17
 
bob x said:
"And yes, there was no alcoholic wine at the Last Supper."
I'm sorry, that is just utterly false. Quahom is correct (however much it may amaze him to hear me say so) that "it had to be freshly squeezed juice in order to be lacking in quantities of alcohol" since refrigeration, bottling, canning, and so on were all technologies completely absent in the 1st century.
And I would add: we know it was not freshly squeezed juice, because it was not the right season for grapes to be ripe. At a minimum, it had been fermenting for six months.
Click to expand...

There was no alcoholic wine at the Last Supper, Bob. Wine is hametz- Numbers 6:3 declares it so.
The term translated "Wine" in the Bible can refer to boiled down cordial, raisin cakes, or fresh juice.
You may wish to have another look but I don't think the word "wine" is even used in any of the Gospels in reference to the Last Supper.

Cheers *clink*,
Br.Bruce
 
Quahom1 said:
Jesus, turned water into the finest "wine" at the wedding in Cannan, the best served last. In a culture that had no prohibitions against alcoholic drink particularly at weddings or celebrations, I doubt it was the best "grape juice", the wine captain was in awe of...



Q
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Dear Q Joe,

Christ did not turn water into alcoholic wine at the Marriage at Cana- it was much better than that!

http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/christ-and-dionysos-7270.html

Paul tells us that he was setting an example.

The human digestive system itself creates alcohol- no need to get it from outside!

Happy Trails,
Br.Bruce

[SIZE=-1]Abstain because it is right to abstain - not that yourself shall be kept clean.[/SIZE]
 
mee said:
it can be very damaging if not used as the bible tells us too, and most people dont give the bible any thought and do things there own way .


thats when the problems start in many things . doing things our own way will only end in tears .


All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.
2 timothy 3;16-17
Click to expand...


Proverbs 31:4-5
It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; Nor for princes to say , Where is strong drink?Lest they drink, and forget the law, And pervert the justice due to any that is afflicted.

23:20 Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh:


23:21 For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.

Proverbs 23:31-32
Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.

Habakkuk 2:15
Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken.

Hosea 4:11
Prostitution, wine, and new wine take away understanding.
 
Dear Friends,
Let's take another look at our total abstainer St. Paul.
Did he not institute the Holy Communion?

Review of Paul and Hellenism by Hyam Maccoby, SCM 1991




Quote:
"We learn that Tarsus, which Acts identifies as Paul's birthplace, was the center of Mithras worship, whose initiates "either drank the blood of the sacred bull or drank a chalice of wine as a symbolic representation of that blood" (p.25). Later, Wilson does not hesitate to see Paul's understanding of the sacrificial nature of Christ's death as being "in the same light that the followers of Mithras saw the death of the sacrificial bull" (p.166); or to link Paul's very un-Jewish concept of the sacramental Lord's Supper (1 Corinthians 11:23f) with Greek cultic precedents; its very name, kuriakon deipnon, was "borrowed from the Mithraic mysteries" (p.165).

He observes that "there is not the slightest suggestion by Paul that this tradition derives from anyone who was actually with Jesus on the night before he died." That Jesus, a pious Jew, could have asked his disciples "to drink a cup of blood, even symbolically, is unthinkable" (p.25), since the drinking of blood was one of the most fundamental taboos in Jewish life. Rather, Wilson concludes that "Paul believed he had received instruction from Jesus himself about the institution of this great Christian sacrament."

The Roman version of the Mithraic Mysteries appeared in Rome in the latter part of 100AD. That is when it takes a foothold in the west. Probably it was in existence in Tarsus, Turkey, well before that.

It is not surprising then that early Christians didn't use alcoholic wine in their Communions.
The Encratites, who opposed the use of all intoxicating drinks, consistently communed with water. In the fourth century the users-of water in the Communion were called "Aquarii" or "Hydroparastatae" and, under the Code of Theodosius, were liable to death for their practise.

Others known as having substituted water for wine are: Tatian, a
pupil of Justin Martyr; Galatia, the confessor of Alcibiades of Lyons; Pionius, the Catholic martyr of Smyrna; the Marcionites; the Ebionites; the Montanists; and the Therapeutae of Philo.
Yes a Catholic Saint as well!

-Br.Bruce
 
Bruce Michael said:
Proverbs 31:4-5
It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; Nor for princes to say , Where is strong drink?Lest they drink, and forget the law, And pervert the justice due to any that is afflicted.
Click to expand...
23:20 Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh:

Are you a vegetarian because of this verse? Or just downcast when you eat meat?
Proverbs 23:21 For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.

Proverbs 23:31-32
Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.

Habakkuk 2:15
Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken.
Hosea 4:11
Prostitution, wine, and new wine take away understanding.
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God values your intellect very highly; don’t sell yourself for anything. Moderation is key.

If you are an alcoholic there is a lot of help to be had. Seek it. It is very wrong to say something is in the bible because of personal feelings.
 
Bruce Michael said:
There was no alcoholic wine at the Last Supper, Bob. Wine is hametz- Numbers 6:3 declares it so.
The term translated "Wine" in the Bible can refer to boiled down cordial, raisin cakes, or fresh juice.
You may wish to have another look but I don't think the word "wine" is even used in any of the Gospels in reference to the Last Supper.

Cheers *clink*,
Br.Bruce
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Hametz is port Bruce...21% by volume or greater.
 
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