Ever Feared not Believing in Jesus?

Re: What is Bliss?

Hey James, are you trying to muscle in on my niche here??!! :eek::p

s.

Think twice, or don't think at all? Hmm, I'm thinking about how I might answer your question. Maybe I should just say "yes", or "no"? [Nah - too boring]

What do you think I might be doing? :p

James a.k.a "muscle" or is it "sharing your niche" or maybe I'm just "sponge"?

Are we in agreement, then?

Love ya!
 
To all Buddhists who were raised in predominately Christian society, have you ever feared not believing in Jesus? Do you still to this day? Have you ever been told that you will go to hell for not believing in Jesus?

If you had feared at one time, how did you over come this fear?

Greetings Manji,
The Buddha is a Christian saint. The hellfire cannot touch him. It is skip and joy to him.
Josaphat and the Beautiful Maiden
The tale of the hermit St. Barlaam and his convert St. Josaphat is a curious link between Christianity and Buddhism, since at least the beginning of the story is unmistakably an account of the early life of the Buddha. The story is thought to have been composed by John of Damascus in the 6th century AD. It also appears, in abridged form, in the Golden Legend of Jacobus de Voragine.

The Egyptians held to the concept of the body of the river, being the true body of man, to hold and carry his spirit through to the higher regions.
This river the great Gautama crossed in life and also beyond: This river of Purgatory with flames of hellfire beneath and the breath of Cosmic Fire above.

-B.Hive


Cordially,
Br.Bruce

 
Re: What is Bliss?

External - Internal; it is all the same. We ourselves are one with the other, so the "enlightened" comes when we see love in everything. [It is what binds us together]

I try not to view things in terms of goal, either. I do try to be who I am, and like you - Am too stupid [usually] to manage, lol. :p Perhaps it is my trying that gets in the way? There [are] days when I manage to just [be], tho.

Love,

James

A thought occurred to me (imagine that).

What if being enlightened or spiritual or whatever just be that we are operating correctly according to how we were supposed to function? That when we do the right thing, we experience the spiritual or sense of enlightenment, as if operating in "the zone"? A place where we can experience the Divine or One or whatever Buddhism calls it? I would venture to say that this phenomenon can occur regardless of religious affiliation.

What if Jesus merely taught that we need to pursue that zone rather than dogmatically follow a set of laws? That the statement "...I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6) is rather like a guide showing his followers the way. Whatever you believe about Jesus, certainly there is little argument that much of His concern is how we care for others. Understand that the aforementioned verse is part of the diatribe right after He washed their feet (John 13). In this simple act, He showed them how to love one another through humble service toward to one another. Note what He says:

"Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.
If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him. If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them." - John 13:13-17

This is bliss. He chowed them the example. Yet it runs counter to our own ego, for we believe that bliss comes by being served. But the tables are turned. The way is the opposite direction of that which you wish to go. So in saying, "I am the way", Jesus is pointing to that direction. This a theme throughout His whole ministry. Whomever Jesus is addressing needs to go in that direction if they are going to find whatr they need.

What is the Buddhist, the Jew, the Muslim, the Christian, or the Flying Spaghetti Monsteran looking for in his/her religion? They are looking for a change in their lives that will make them a better person, a more perfect person, though we are flawed. Or because we are flawed, and we know it. But I would venture that even the atheist/agnostic (which BTW many Buddhists are) seeks the common good in him/herself in whatever philosophy they have adopted. It is unreasonable to think that they can somehow or some way enter "the zone"?
 
Re: What is Bliss?

A thought occurred to me (imagine that).

What if being enlightened or spiritual or whatever just be we are operating correctly according to how we were supposed to function. That when we do the right thing, we experience the spiritual or sense of enlightenment, as if operating in "the zone". A place where we can experience the Divine or One or whatever Buddhism calls it. I would venture to say that this phenomenon can occur regardless of religious affiliation.

What if Jesus merely taught that we need to pursue that zone rather than dogmatically follow a set of laws? That the statement,"...I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6) is rather like a guide showing his followers the way. Whatever you believe about Jesus, certainly much of his concern is how we care for others. Understand that the aforementioned verse is part of the diatribe right after He washed their feet (John 13). In this simple act, He showed them how to love one another through humble service toward to each other. Note what He says:

"Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.

If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him. If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them." - John 13:13-17

This is bliss. Yet it runs counter to our own ego, for we believe that bliss comes by being served. The tables are turned. The way is the opposite direction of that which you wish to go. so in saying, "I am the way", Jesus is pointing to that direction. This a theme throughout His whole ministry. Whomever Jesus is addressing needs to go in that direction.

What is the Buddhist, the Jew, the Muslim, the Christian, or the Flying Spaghetti Monsteran looking for in his/her religion? They are looking for a change in their lives that will make them a better person, a more perfect person, though we are flawed. Or because we are flawed, and we know it. But I would venture that even the atheist/agnostic (which BTW many Buddhists are) seeks the common good in him/herself in whatever philosophy they have adopted. It is unreasonable to think that they can somehow or some way enter "the zone"?

Those are wonderful thoughts, Dondi. I think you are aware of more than you realize, brother. There is much I should do that I don't, and there is much I want to do, that I fear to do. I am a servent, and a friend, but I am not serving as I ought to serve. [We are here, one for the other]

Thank you for putting this in perspective! :)

Love ya!

James
 
To all Buddhists who were raised in predominately Christian society, have you ever feared not believing in Jesus? Do you still to this day? Have you ever been told that you will go to hell for not believing in Jesus?

If you had feared at one time, how did you over come this fear?

Fear: opposite of love, in my personal dictionary. To me, although it is found ad nauseaum in the current telling of Christianity, it has nothing to do with Christ or Buddha or Krishna, or any other "divine teacher".

I personally left Christianity for the hypocrisy. Fear is a part of the hypocrisy, feeds it, fuels it. Standard Institutional Christianity, like any patriarchal exclusive telling of Religion, rests on the assumption that it is the Only and Correct way. No other religious system, magical practice, spirituality, or elaborate technical theology can be allowed to stand. In order to uphold the authority of Select Christianity, or Islam, or sometimes even Buddhism, or sometimes Paganism or Hinduism even, all other systems must be discredited. Fear of exclusion from the rewards of the Holy is used as a boundary to keep the sheep in the walled pasture.

I jumped the fence once I saw that the world was a lot more colorful and lively outside of the Religious Farm. After escaping, I'd find myself every so often in a new Religious Farm, attracted by the security and the abundance of food and the seeming kindness of the Masters. But I'm an anarchical sort, and tend to ask lots of "Why? Why this? Why not this? Who says?" types of questions. The way I've been able to approach satisfying those questions is by breaking down all the fences, making firewood out of crosses and wooden buddhas, wandering widely, and cultivating my own answers from scrap and scratch.

Once I was able to see the hypocrisy Eternal Hellish Retribution as a threat from an Almighty and Mostly Benevolent Gawd (Who Really Did Love Me, Even if that Love Equalled Damnation), I was able to cut my leash to Big Poppa Gawd and frolic, picking wild mushrooms and burnt and banned books along the way, with which I nurtured an ever-present connection to immanence and Be-ing and becoming. That connection has always been there and I strutted it freely and un-selfconciously as a child. It was only by cultural and religious indocrination that this natural humanity and spiritual affinity got tarnished.

Still, I live and move through tarnishing and toxic environments. Keeping pure and dirty, loose and natural, free of sullying influences is a full-time job. One thing that's really helpful is to reframe the fearful paradigm. Jesus got you down? Gawd seem like a judgmental un-gentleman? Why not wash them off, redraw them even? Jesus is a world-wanderer full of Love and Compassion who learned about his chi from Mary Magdalene, who is a luxuriant and lusty priestess of the sexual, life-affirming Goddess. Gawd is a woman, or better yet, a child.

Unlearn what the man taught you, unless you like business suits, guilt complexes, and politics as usual.

:cool: ;)
 
Namaste Bruce Michael,

thank you for the post.



oh? doesn't the formal recognition of a saint have some requirements that must be fulfilled for such to happen?



:D

metta,

~v


Saints are saints regardless of the rules of men, Vajradhara.
Some who have been made saints by the Church aren't really, and the Church has missed plenty- Blessed Raymond Lully for instance.


Although Barlaam and Josaphat were never formally canonized, they were included in earlier editions of the Roman Martyrology (feast day 27 November) - though not in the Roman Missal - and in the Eastern Orthodox Church liturgical calendar (26 August).
Josaphat’s name may be traced to the Sanskrit term bodhisattva via the Middle Persian bodasif.

Josaphat's story appears to be in many respects a Christianized version of Gautama Buddha’s story.
350px-Josaphat.jpg


Barlaam and Josaphat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Shalom,
-Br.Bruce
 
A thought occurring to Dondi

What if being enlightened or spiritual or whatever just be that we are operating correctly according to how we were supposed to function? That when we do the right thing, we experience the spiritual or sense of enlightenment, as if operating in "the zone"? A place where we can experience the Divine or One or whatever Buddhism calls it? I would venture to say that this phenomenon can occur regardless of religious affiliation.

Dondi, I believe what you have expressed here is (to use the vernacular) spot on. I would just perhaps highlight the little phrase “as if”. Because I would say that in reality there is no “zone.”


This is bliss. He showed them the example. Yet it runs counter to our own ego, for we believe that bliss comes by being served. But the tables are turned. The way is the opposite direction of that which you wish to go. So in saying, "I am the way", Jesus is pointing to that direction. This a theme throughout His whole ministry. Whomever Jesus is addressing needs to go in that direction if they are going to find what they need.
What Shakyamuni “found” was liberation for Shakyamuni. He then offered a guide to others to find their own liberation.

Only by dealing with our egos can we even hope to operate correctly.



s.
 
I have a question regarding Buddhism and Jesus:

Are there any Buddhists who consider Jesus as practicing Vajra Pride? {I'm not sure whether that is the correct term -my vocabulary is different. I'm referring to the practice whereby a being pictures themselves as being the manifestation of compassion, as might be evidenced by Jesus saying, "The Father and I are one." (or something to that effect?) }

If this is an invalid question, please ignore it...
 
Re: A thought occurring to Dondi

Dondi, I believe what you have expressed here is (to use the vernacular) spot on. I would just perhaps highlight the little phrase “as if”. Because I would say that in reality there is no “zone.”

I don't understand what you mean by there is no zone. You ever seen athletes like quarterbacks that just seen to have everything click on a given Sunday? They are making most of their passes and avoiding sacks and really the whole team is playing well. I mean they become unstoppable. They are in "the zone". The next week, they play horribly and lose to a mediocre team. Why? They aren't in the zone.

Or how about when Tiger Woods has his "A" game on. He gets so far ahead of the pack that he's guarenteed to win. Other times he's struggling just to stay in the top ten.

Would you not agree that our goal ought to find that groove and stay there?

Snoopy said:
What Shakyamuni “found” was liberation for Shakyamuni. He then offered a guide to others to find their own liberation.
Snoopy said:
Only by dealing with our egos can we even hope to operate correctly.
s.


Yes, there is a time when we need to follow example, but then there ought to be a point when we should be able to fly on our own. We learn, then we do. Or do not. (There is no try) Hmmmm...
 
Re: A thought occurring to Dondi

Would you not agree that our goal ought to find that groove and stay there?

As I said earlier I'm not really one for goals as such. I wasn't really thinking about sports performance when I referred to "no zone". Maybe you are calling "correct operation" as being "in the zone".

s.
 
seattlegal,

I wonder if you are referring to the Buddhist concept of Avatara, whereby Gautama Buddha was a manifestation of a higher Buddha. There are some people who see Jesus as an Avatara.

Or, are you referring to the Hindu concept of Atman, in which all of us are manifestations of our higher self? (This is the concept that agrees with me, whereby our Atman is our Father. This is exactly the idea I think Jesus was trying to get across.)
 
I have a question regarding Buddhism and Jesus:

Are there any Buddhists who consider Jesus as practicing Vajra Pride? {I'm not sure whether that is the correct term -my vocabulary is different. I'm referring to the practice whereby a being pictures themselves as being the manifestation of compassion, as might be evidenced by Jesus saying, "The Father and I are one." (or something to that effect?) }

If this is an invalid question, please ignore it...

Seattlegal and Nick,

Vajra Pride sounds like something from the Tibetan traditions of Buddhism. I've heard of something like it before. My understanding is that there are technique where one attempts to fully identify/merge with a god/goddess/avatar/whathaveyou. I've never ever thought of Jesus's statement of "The Father and I are one" being a practice of this kind, probably because the christian compartments of my mind still have a hard time wiggling along with the buddhist compartments of my mind. That said, it does make sense to me, and helps me reconcile myself to a statement that has too often been co-opted by fundamentalists and other christians to make that ever fearful point that, "Our way is the only way!!"

Now if we can work on "I am the way, the truth, and the light. No one comes to the father except through me," in a similar way, I'll be good to go!

;) :)

Thanks for the bodhicitta, seattlegal. :)
 
Seattlegal and Nick,

Vajra Pride sounds like something from the Tibetan traditions of Buddhism. I've heard of something like it before. My understanding is that there are technique where one attempts to fully identify/merge with a god/goddess/avatar/whathaveyou. I've never ever thought of Jesus's statement of "The Father and I are one" being a practice of this kind, probably because the christian compartments of my mind still have a hard time wiggling along with the buddhist compartments of my mind. That said, it does make sense to me, and helps me reconcile myself to a statement that has too often been co-opted by fundamentalists and other christians to make that ever fearful point that, "Our way is the only way!!"

Now if we can work on "I am the way, the truth, and the light. No one comes to the father except through me," in a similar way, I'll be good to go!

;) :)

Thanks for the bodhicitta, seattlegal. :)
Yes, that is what I'm talking about.
 
Pathless,

In my humble opinion, that is exactly what Jesus meant by the statement, "I am the way, the truth, and the light. No one comes to the father except through me." The way I see it, this is a way of reuniting with our Atman. Jesus did not mean he was the only way, he meant the path he taught was the only way, which is something I completely agree with. (I have to wonder if the wording of the original text was altered.) If you look at it this way, Jesus' and Buddha's teachings are identical.
 
Namaste Bruce Michael,

thank you for the post.

Saints are saints regardless of the rules of men, Vajradhara.

i'm pretty sure that this isn't so. i'm pretty certain that the whole idea of "saints" is strictly within the confines of human thought and ideas and, i would suspect, that each tradition that has such beings has a fairly rigorous criteria by which a being could be determined to be such. though, in truth, i have not spent much time investigating the issue of how saints are selected in all the traditions which have such things.

Some who have been made saints by the Church aren't really, and the Church has missed plenty- Blessed Raymond Lully for instance.

dunno who that person is but i would presume that many beings were given sainthood status for other than religious reasons.

metta,

~v
 
I have a question regarding Buddhism and Jesus:

Are there any Buddhists who consider Jesus as practicing Vajra Pride? {I'm not sure whether that is the correct term -my vocabulary is different. I'm referring to the practice whereby a being pictures themselves as being the manifestation of compassion, as might be evidenced by Jesus saying, "The Father and I are one." (or something to that effect?) }

If this is an invalid question, please ignore it...

Namaste Seattlegal,

thank you for the question.

i would tend to say not since there is no evidence that Jesus had practiced any of the higher tantras to receive empowerment to practice the generation stage the development of vajra pride, as it were, and such is considered required before the generational stage teachings are given.

this is, of course, a distinctive feature of the Vajrayana and is not found in other Buddhist schools of practice.

metta,

~v
 
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