Hiding Behind Diseases

greymare

greymare

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I was told today that I wasnt a very nice person. Now, normally that kind of comment wouldnt worry me in the least but I needed to explain myself. "They" wouldnt listen , so thats why Im here venting my anger and frustration on the Lounge board.
The situation was a person I work with was telling some of us about how some people cannot control their actions, etc when influenced by alcohol. Now, to a point I agreed, booze clearly mucks up the brain and body, while under the influence but then she stated that alcoholism is a disease etc. WHOA.......

Now to all out there that enjoy a drink, (like me) fine but to say alcoholism is a disease is rubbish. Yes, there are alcoholics and drug addicts etc that let their drug of choice rule them and their lives but it is not a disease . You can get a disease from partaking in these things, (liver disease, etc) but honestly, to me to say alcoholism is a disease is trash. I know Ive insulted everyone who has done the 12 steps and everyone who is struggling with it. But to me, put it in perspective. Cancer in all its forms is a disease. This is something that no on;e wants but people get. Heart disease, (all you health minded people) know all about this. it is a disease. Fair dinkum, measles, mumps, malaria..... they are alll diseases. Alcoholism is a choice. Yes, I kno;w its a pretty over powering urge, just like smoking. But it takes will power (or wont power) as the case may be. Is Gambling a disease too. No, its a human weakness, just like alcoholism . Dont hide behind it. Stand up and beat it or succumb, I really dont care, just dont pretend its a disease. Its pathetic,..........
:mad::eek:
Told you I was going to vent.....
To those I have offended.......build a bridge, baby. Buy some starch...etc...
 
How about this.

Alcoholism is a disease. But it is treatable. It may not be curable, but one can maintain the disease at a minimal level.

So accept alcohol as a disease, and if one continues to drink and act the fool, the ass, and disrupt the lives of others, they lose a few points for not taking the steps (12, 13 or whatever) to fix it. They are choosing to live with their disease in a chronic state, therefor it has some consequences, and one of those is dealing with people who have little or no tolerance for their sickness.

ie no use enabling.

Now if they choose to take the 'cure', why not be supportive?
 
still doesnt convince me. I know all the studies in the world pbrobably wont either. All these ISMS are self made and can be stopped. just dont do it. I know im not compassionate and intolerant to this ... Ill keep my compassion and tolerance andhelp for those who need it. Not those who "cant" do it. Its wont. not cant. You cant help getting REAL diseases. oh you can get immunized against it but not all of the little nasties. To me, and Ive dealt (or not) with it....Get personal. Drink or dont. Gamble or Dont. Friggin, shop or dont. these are pathetic excuses when there are REAL diseases out there that need looking at/cureing/ public awareness. ETC,,(I knew Id lose a few friends over this, but this is my opinion.)
 
Hi Grey *he says in a subdued and respectful voice*. As a citizen of sin city and as one who drove drunks around town for five years or so as a job, I'll agree that inappropriately choosing to get drunk is the key. But for some who choose to drink, gamble, do drugs, or shop, research shows that some are more genetically programmed to make the wrong choices than others.

Brain scans have shown that the same pleasure centers in the brain light up whenever the addictive behavior of choice is chosen and pursued until that old buggaboo, the law of diminishing returns kicks in. Everyone is different genetically, but society demands uniform behaviors from us all to maintain civility and balance. What's wrong with the picture ? Disease is not the right word to use. "Out of control behaviors" is. And the more pressures societies and their lifestyles load on peoples' backs, the more problems there'll be.

People will ALWAYS turn to self-medication when under stress. And eventually addiction happens.

flow....:rolleyes:
 
greymare said:
The situation was a person I work with was telling some of us about how some people cannot control their actions, etc when influenced by alcohol. Now, to a point I agreed, booze clearly mucks up the brain and body, while under the influence but then she stated that alcoholism is a disease etc. WHOA.......

Now to all out there that enjoy a drink, (like me) fine but to say alcoholism is a disease is rubbish. Yes, there are alcoholics and drug addicts etc that let their drug of choice rule them and their lives but it is not a disease . You can get a disease from partaking in these things, (liver disease, etc) but honestly, to me to say alcoholism is a disease is trash.
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Hi grey.

It's not my policy to condemn, but......I see from what you're saying how annoying it is to have alcoholics ruin your day. Or your life.......and perhaps you wonder if they're still around to cause trouble even after you've left the city.

There are some things that we shouldn't do because others have done them. We should know better if we can learn from the mistakes of others!!! Don't repeat their mistakes. Be different. If you know alcohol and drugs are dangerous, stay well away from them. If you don't you might be inviting "demon possession" or "the devil" (metaphorically speaking) into you. It may be years before you can free yourself from that stuff. If you're doing it for a friend, don't!!! Find some other friends. Even better, if you drink alcohol to please your friends, don't have friends at all. You don't have to have those people as friends. You don't have to be happy now so you don't have to drink it now. If you're going to be sad you're going to be sad. The alcohol doesn't change anything. It's because of the sadness that you're drinking the alcohol.

You may vomit (some do it over a toilet and actually hold onto the toilet. Yuk and ew, the germs!!! I wouldn't want that person touching me.:eek:) or have a hangover the next morning. Hangovers are not good because for a few hours you can't do anything and can hardly think. Time is money. Doing physical exercise, gardening, cooking or reading would be a better use of your time.

Don't waste your life.:eek: If you're not into it, don't get into it now.
 
With regards to vomiting and holding onto a toilet, some don't even wash their hands after they've done it. Too drunk to remember? Whatever. How gross.:D:eek: A good way to spread disease.
 
I have addictions issues :( And I wouldn't say it is an illness.... Example, I have some "mental issues" lol, and I didn't -choose- them..... They are just something that has sadly happened to me..... Cannabis.... I am addicted I see that now.... This is my own damn fault :( and not an illness....
 
greymare said:
I was told today that I wasnt a very nice person. Now, normally that kind of comment wouldnt worry me in the least but I needed to explain myself. "They" wouldnt listen , so thats why Im here venting my anger and frustration on the Lounge board.
The situation was a person I work with was telling some of us about how some people cannot control their actions, etc when influenced by alcohol. Now, to a point I agreed, booze clearly mucks up the brain and body, while under the influence but then she stated that alcoholism is a disease etc. WHOA.......

Now to all out there that enjoy a drink, (like me) fine but to say alcoholism is a disease is rubbish. Yes, there are alcoholics and drug addicts etc that let their drug of choice rule them and their lives but it is not a disease . You can get a disease from partaking in these things, (liver disease, etc) but honestly, to me to say alcoholism is a disease is trash. I know Ive insulted everyone who has done the 12 steps and everyone who is struggling with it. But to me, put it in perspective. Cancer in all its forms is a disease. This is something that no on;e wants but people get. Heart disease, (all you health minded people) know all about this. it is a disease. Fair dinkum, measles, mumps, malaria..... they are alll diseases. Alcoholism is a choice. Yes, I kno;w its a pretty over powering urge, just like smoking. But it takes will power (or wont power) as the case may be. Is Gambling a disease too. No, its a human weakness, just like alcoholism . Dont hide behind it. Stand up and beat it or succumb, I really dont care, just dont pretend its a disease. Its pathetic,..........
:mad::eek:
Told you I was going to vent.....
To those I have offended.......build a bridge, baby. Buy some starch...etc...
Click to expand...


First off Grey, let's make this really clear: being nice is a social trap, good for you for not being nice. :)

That being said, consider the propensity for addiction or habituation is a condition just as OCD (or CDO which is the same thing only alphabetically correct :D ) is. I did the twelve step thing and now have ten years clean and sober, but I'm in the minority. Most drug addicts and alchoholics never make it to treatment, and out of those who do only a certain percentage ever stay clean. Considering it a moral failing or a weak willed individual is an oversimplification of what is really going on. Sure, it took some intestinal fortitude to quit, just like it did when I quit smoking but how do I know that the ability to marshall the will and strength to do so isn't somehow genetic or as the religious might say God given?
 
17th Angel said:
I have addictions issues :( And I wouldn't say it is an illness.... Example, I have some "mental issues" lol, and I didn't -choose- them..... They are just something that has sadly happened to me..... Cannabis.... I am addicted I see that now.... This is my own damn fault :( and not an illness....
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cannibas thankfully ain't an addiction as far as I know. Not saying it is easy to quit, it is definitely a hell of a habit. And I can't tell you how to quit if you are interested in such. All I know is I used to marvel at the folks that quit. And then when I became one I marveled at that. As it occurred like they said, increduously without effort. One day waking up and thinking, I haven't had any for two weeks, weird.

When it comes to alcoholism, I still can see the disease scenario, yes we cause it ourselves with continuous over consumption of booze, but we also dramatically increase our risk of cancer, heart disease, diabetes, gout, migraines, high blood pressure and on and on and on, all self inflicted with our forks. Yes I know militant carnivores are in denial in this regard.
 
wil said:
cannibas thankfully ain't an addiction as far as I know. Not saying it is easy to quit, it is definitely a hell of a habit. And I can't tell you how to quit if you are interested in such. All I know is I used to marvel at the folks that quit. And then when I became one I marveled at that. As it occurred like they said, increduously without effort. One day waking up and thinking, I haven't had any for two weeks, weird.

When it comes to alcoholism, I still can see the disease scenario, yes we cause it ourselves with continuous over consumption of booze, but we also dramatically increase our risk of cancer, heart disease, diabetes, gout, migraines, high blood pressure and on and on and on, all self inflicted with our forks. Yes I know militant carnivores are in denial in this regard.
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Gotta disagree with you brother, any drug can lead to habituation. There are plenty of people in the rooms who used little else. Read Addiction and Grace by Dr. Gerald May.
 
Grey, I can see how you think that alcoholism is not a disease, in the same way that (say) cancer or measles is. The term seems to be used to mean various things by different people and organisations, without there being a consensus, e.g.

“Alcoholism is a term with multiple and sometimes conflicting definitions. In common and historic usage, alcoholism refers to any condition that results in the continued consumption of alcoholic beverages despite the health problems and negative social consequences it causes. Medical definitions describe alcoholism as a disease which results in a persistent use of alcohol despite negative consequences. Alcoholism may also refer to a preoccupation with or compulsion toward the consumption of alcohol and/or an impaired ability to recognize the negative effects of excessive alcohol consumption.”


Alcoholism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and /or


 “The problems associated with alcoholism, or alcohol dependence, are wide ranging, and can be physical, psychological, and social. For someone with a drink problem, drinking becomes a compulsion and takes precedence over all other activities.
A person with alcohol dependence:
  • has a strong desire to drink alcohol,
  • has difficulty controlling their use of alcohol,
  • persistently uses alcohol despite being aware of the harmful effects,
  • shows increased tolerance for alcohol, and
  • shows signs of withdrawal when without alcohol.
Alcohol dependence can remain undetected for many years. Although some scientists think that there may a genetic link to alcohol dependence, it is very difficult to prove.”


Alcohol misuse Definition - Health encyclopaedia - NHS Direct




Personally, I tend to also think that a disease is something different than a physical and/or psychological craving.

Stresses and social pressures can lead to alcohol or drug dependency, as well as other factors no doubt. And in many countries alcohol is at the root of many social ills. A recent tragedy in the UK, where drunken youths murder a man:


“The boy told police he had consumed nine or 10 bottles of Stella Artois and one three-litre bottle of Frosty Jack's cider in the hours before the attack.”



BBC NEWS | England | Merseyside | Mother tells of son's confession



s.
 
Paladin said:
Gotta disagree with you brother, any drug can lead to habituation. There are plenty of people in the rooms who used little else. Read Addiction and Grace by Dr. Gerald May.
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Habit forming I'll agree. I could be wrong, but I thought addiction meant a physical reaction would occur from lack of. ie DTs, withdrawals, etc. I thought there was a differentiation.
 
wil said:
Habit forming I'll agree. I could be wrong, but I thought addiction meant a physical reaction would occur from lack of. ie DTs, withdrawals, etc. I thought there was a differentiation.
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Nope. Some drugs are physically addicting, but ADDICTION happens with People, Places and Things. This is why eating, sex, gambling, can be a problem with those persons prone to addiction. Many addicts have multiple obsessions and often transfer their addictive behaviors to other things after they get clean. My sister for example turned to spending money and often spends more than she and her husband make.
 
while I agree that all these arguments have merit, and yes alcoholism and the various other addictions are or can be devastating, it is wrong (for me to agrree) that these are diseases. I know the crap that ensues from this addiction, but its a cop out to say its a disease. " I cant help it..... i have a disease...." No. the real reply is... " I cant help it.... Im addicted" FINE. That is a entire issue itself, addictions etc. That is not my point , once again. Malaria, frigging leprosy, herpes, for g/ds sake, they are diseases. Im sorry guys, there is no grey(PUN) area for me. black and white. addiction yes, disease, hell no.
 
wil said:
cannibas thankfully ain't an addiction as far as I know.
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Yeah, I used to tell my self that too... :)

I get aggressive and very short fused if I go without weed for more than a week, I class that as an addiction... I should know, it is my body that goes ape ****. lol... Then again it could be because I use weed to juggle my balances from past things I've done.
 
greymare said:
Im addicted to coffee. seriously, i get headaches, and really cranky if I havent had a jolt. but guess what , its not a disease.
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Oh aye, I get headaches from coffee... But then again drinking on average 12 cups per day... What do you expect lol.... I only get headaches minor with that, but weed... I really get short and aggressive. So as I said in my previous post... Wil is wrong it is addictive. But, there is no excuse for my actions or behaviour...
 
I agree wholeheartedly with you, Greymare... my brother, who is currently in rehab and actually doing the 12 steps is also of the same opinion...
 
Anything out of balance is dis-ease or dis-order. The more out of balance, the more disease. It's a spectrum. Addictions can be be mild and mere inconvienence or they can be destructive to the self and everyone around a person. Maybe the person in the pit did decide shovel-full by shovel-full to keep digging, but at some point they can't get out without help. And even then it's not always possible.

I think there are real physiological reasons why some people are more prone to fall into destructive addictions...it's not so cut and dried. And while we are all ultimately responsible for the choices we make, our role is not to judge but to act with compassion toward others.

2 c and sorry to be preachy but this is a topic close to me
 
yes, being a alcoholic is a terrible addiction. I am not downplaying the horrible affects of it. (or any other addictive behaviour). I know the REAL problems that come with it.
That is NOT my point.

for me to say it is a disease implies that it is an unconcious(?) event/bug etc that invaded a body. Its not, it is the result of us consciously putting something in our bodies (drugs/alcohol).
I wish I had a better vocabulary because Im not making myself clear even when I read it. LOL.
Compassion obviously for me is limited to those who need it. People who know me well, often think Im crazy because I will go out of my way to help people. Then there are the ones who wont get off their butts and help themselves, them I cant help. (I am hard, arent I )
 
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