What is the Christian perspective of Muhammed (pbuh)?

[Quahom1]

Well, Quahom1, I won't talk about the fall of Rome, the division of moon, the spider and the dove, the talking sheep........and many other "materialistic" prophecies.

Look, Quahom1, if you are a magician, and I present to you something that go far beyond magic, you will of course believe in my powers.

If you are very "materialistic", and you believe just in material things, and that people cant be ressuracted, and I show you materialistic things like bringing dead people alive, and turning blind into one who can see, and deaf into one who can hear, I m sure then that you are going to believe in my powers.

If you are a great poet, and I present you a book of non-comparing poetry and at the same time very revealing, then for sure you will believe in my powers.

God sent every prophet by prophecies that suited those people.

By the way, those who refused Muhammed from his tribe accused him of being a poet (and they knew he wasnt), a magician (and they knew he wasnt), a crazy (and they knew he wasnt). Muhammed' morals and ethics were highly regarded by his own people even before the message was sent down to him.

Don't disrespect me Dialogue. I have never done that to you.

 

[Quahom1]

When Bush declared war on Iraq, he used the term "Crusade", and he said something like that God ordered him to do so??!! and look, sonoman, at what is hapenning in Iraq, and how the story of mass weapon turned to be a BIG lie. Shall I understand from this that Christianity is a religion of violence, lies, and contempt? No, I know that all prophets came with message of love and peace.

Islam and voilence is a very repeated subject that the media leaves no effort to fix it in people mind. One, if he/ she really cares, can get the true picture of Islam by individual, independent effort.

President Bush NEVER said ANYTHING about God ordering him to go to war. And frankly, I think you should check "snopes.com" to find out the truth of things, before you post points that you might regret, later.

Q

 

[dailogue is the best]

Quahom1

Don't disrespect me Dialogue. I have never done that to you

Again, Quahom1, again!!! you always made a false assumption against me. Can you show me where I showed you disrespect? I dont dare, Quahom1. Neither your gentle behaviour nor my ethics allow me to do so.

President Bush NEVER said ANYTHING about God ordering him to go to war. And frankly, I think you should check "snopes.com" to find out the truth of things, before you post points that you might regret, later.

By the way, it is the first time, and believe me, I heard about "snopes.com". These were the news I heard the time war on Iraq began. I will check it out, and then I will inform you about my findings.

 

[dailogue is the best]

.

Look, Quahom1, if you are a magician, and I present to you something that go far beyond magic, you will of course believe in my powers.

If you are very "materialistic", and you believe just in material things, and that people cant be ressuracted, and I show you materialistic things like bringing dead people alive, and turning blind into one who can see, and deaf into one who can hear, I m sure then that you are going to believe in my powers.

If you are a great poet, and I present you a book of non-comparing poetry and at the same time very revealing, then for sure you will believe in my powers.

If you see my using the phrase "if you are" as a sign of disrespect, then I am no end sorry, and I really apologize.

I used the phrase "if you are" for the sake of giving exapmles, and I mnt addressing you at all.

By the first example, I meant the people of Pharoah and the prophecies of Moses.

By the second example, I meant the people of Israel and the prophecies of Jesus.

By the third example, I meant the people of Arabian peninsula and the prophecies of Muhammed.

I want to say that different prophecies address different people.

Again, I am very sorry, Quahom1, if you felt that you have been disrespected by me. I dont dare. (not out of fear, but out of real respect)

 

[Quahom1]

If you see my using the phrase "if you are" as a sign of disrespect, then I am no end sorry, and I really apologize.

I used the phrase "if you are" for the sake of giving exapmles, and I mnt addressing you at all.

By the first example, I meant the people of Pharoah and the prophecies of Moses.

By the second example, I meant the people of Israel and the prophecies of Jesus.

By the third example, I meant the people of Arabian peninsula and the prophecies of Muhammed.

I want to say that different prophecies address different people.

Again, I am very sorry, Quahom1, if you felt that you have been disrespected by me. I dont dare. (not out of fear, but out of real respect)

It's ok. Maybe a nerve got touched, and I'm sorry you got the brunt of it.

v/r

Q

 

[dailogue is the best]

It's ok. Maybe a nerve got touched, and I'm sorry you got the brunt of it.

v/r

Q

As usual, Quahom1.....Oh! My God!!!....May God give me patience with you. You accuse me of something, I have to clarify I dont mean anything, then you say you are sorry for misunderstanding....

Another time, I will blink my eyes over your accusations. haha

Now, can you reply to my post, Quahom1.

 

[sonoman]

How do Christians deal with what appears to be great cognitive dissonance in Muslim believers? It's like Westerners, non-Muslims should turn off their tvs and stop reading their newspapers and listen only to the soothing words of Muslim believers about the goodness of their faith. Meanwhile, their Muslim brethren are busy every day of the week blowing fellow Muslims up or non-Muslims in the way of Muslim rule. What Westerner in their right mind would want to be a part of such a violent religious movement?

 

[sonoman]

Any time you couple religion with weapons, God has fled from that religion. God has no need of guns, only men do.

 

[Quahom1]

Well, Quahom1, I won't talk about the fall of Rome, the division of moon, the spider and the dove, the talking sheep........and many other "materialistic" prophecies.

Look, Quahom1, if you are a magician, and I present to you something that go far beyond magic, you will of course believe in my powers.

If you are very "materialistic", and you believe just in material things, and that people cant be ressuracted, and I show you materialistic things like bringing dead people alive, and turning blind into one who can see, and deaf into one who can hear, I m sure then that you are going to believe in my powers.

If you are a great poet, and I present you a book of non-comparing poetry and at the same time very revealing, then for sure you will believe in my powers.

God sent every prophet by prophecies that suited those people.

By the way, those who refused Muhammed from his tribe accused him of being a poet (and they knew he wasnt), a magician (and they knew he wasnt), a crazy (and they knew he wasnt). Muhammed' morals and ethics were highly regarded by his own people even before the message was sent down to him.

That would be a presumption of my inability to reasonably deduce what is actually happening, and what is being made to appear as something that is not.

Further more, a prophecy is not something that "wows" people with the materialistic, but rather a vision of that which is yet to come. Once the vision is realized the prophecy then is "fulfilled".

I am not in any way Dialogue, arguing the merits of Mohhamad's integrity, morals or ethics. What I question is whether or not he presented prophecies and if so, did any come true.

This is far different than "miracles", which are an every day occurance experienced by every day people.

You bring up the division of the moon as a prophecy. Yet within the ranks of Islam, that "prophecy" is in question as to its meaning, and timing. One camp states that Mohhamad actually split the moon (past tense), yet others claim the splitting of the moon occured on 21 July 1969 at exactly 17:54:1 U, when the American astronauts left the moon, bound for earth with 45 lbs of moon rock in their capsule. In short, Americans (not Mohhamad), literally split a piece of the moon away. The rest of the Q'uranic scripture precludes the "prophecy" from being that of the Americans splitting the moon due to the simple observation of the writer, namely that the people who observed this were not impressed. This we know is not at all true, since the whole world was enchanted by the moon walk (except the Russians who were envious...lol ).

Therefore, the only explanation left is that Mohammad literally split the moon, and the people were not impressed. However, that is not a prophecy, but historical, as Mohommad's writer is speaking in the past tense.

We can look at each "prophecy" if you'd like. I'm game.

However, remember, I am not questioning Mohommad's ethics, integrity or honor.

v/r

Q

 

[Quahom1]

Any time you couple religion with weapons, God has fled from that religion. God has no need of guns, only men do.

You forget the Lord's general...Joshua was his name, and Jericho was his claim to fame.

And what he taught us was this: Anything can be used as a weapon, including sound and the frequency of foot falls in cadence.

 

[Quahom1]

How do Christians deal with what appears to be great cognitive dissonance in Muslim believers? It's like Westerners, non-Muslims should turn off their tvs and stop reading their newspapers and listen only to the soothing words of Muslim believers about the goodness of their faith. Meanwhile, their Muslim brethren are busy every day of the week blowing fellow Muslims up or non-Muslims in the way of Muslim rule. What Westerner in their right mind would want to be a part of such a violent religious movement?

This is a presumption on the part that all Muslims are terroists?

There are many Christians who do bad things in the name of God, as well. But that doesn't make all Christians bad.

 

[sonoman]

You forget the Lord's general...Joshua was his name, and Jericho was his claim to fame.

And what he taught us was this: Anything can be used as a weapon, including sound and the frequency of foot falls in cadence.

I don't forget that the Book of Joshua is thankfully just a tribal wishful-thinking story and not true according to Israeli archeologists. It's best to not let ancient tribal politics dictate what one believes about God.

 

[sonoman]

This is a presumption on the part that all Muslims are terroists?

There are many Christians who do bad things in the name of God, as well. But that doesn't make all Christians bad.

There are millions of Muslims who do good. I have quite a few Muslim friends but I am also Christian and cannot stand by seeing murder committed in the name of God. If this was the 11th or 12th century, or the 15th, or 16th, or 17th, I would be protesting against the Catholic Church with its abuse of power in the name of God. I protest American abuse of power in the name of God. And I protest Israeli abuse of power in the name of God--an abuse that is rationalized by Israelis and Evangelicals by pointing to the genocidal myths of Joshua.

 

[Quahom1]

I don't forget that the Book of Joshua is thankfully just a tribal wishful-thinking story and not true according to Israeli archeologists. It's best to not let ancient tribal politics dictate what one believes about God.

I see. Then perhaps you should be the one to tell National Geographics that their discovery of Jericho (and subsequent fallen walls due to seismic disturbance, in an otherwise stable strata), was false.

It's best not to let anyone tell others what is real or what is not, based on personal opinion.

Oh, and I also think you doubt that Moses parted the Red Sea...but we know that it is possible.

Ockam's Razor

 

[Quahom1]

There are millions of Muslims who do good. I have quite a few Muslim friends but I am also Christian and cannot stand by seeing murder committed in the name of God. If this was the 11th or 12th century, or the 15th, or 16th, or 17th, I would be protesting against the Catholic Church with its abuse of power in the name of God. I protest American abuse of power in the name of God. And I protest Israeli abuse of power in the name of God--an abuse that is rationalized by Israelis and Evangelicals by pointing to the genocidal myths of Joshua.

First off, I'm not evangelical, not by a long shot. Second, I fail to see where you shooting Christians in the foot is helping matters, considering you claim to be one.

Axe to grind?

finally, there is the consideration of predjudice. We tend to judge people and telegraph that to the world, just in the way we speak. And we don't even realize it. Just ask your "muslim friends", or should that be "friends who happen to be muslim"?

 

[dailogue is the best]

Further more, a prophecy is not something that "wows" people with the materialistic, but rather a vision of that which is yet to come. Once the vision is realized the prophecy then is "fulfilled".

We can look at each "prophecy" if you'd like. I'm game.

v/r

Q

If you just need prophecies, here are they:
Prophecies from Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him.

 

[wil]

I see. Then perhaps you should be the one to tell National Geographics that their discovery of Jericho (and subsequent fallen walls due to seismic disturbance, in an otherwise stable strata), was false.

It's best not to let anyone tell others what is real or what is not, based on personal opinion.

Oh, and I also think you doubt that Moses parted the Red Sea...but we know that it is possible.

Ockam's Razor

Namaste Q, there is plenty of discussion in the Jewish communities that it wasn't the red sea but a swamp that was crossed and it didn't part like the apologetic scientists nor the Charlton Heston movie implied...the foot folks were able to cross and the chariots got stuck in the mud and hyperbole and victory stories took over...

and from wiki

Later, Kathleen Kenyon's excavation in the 1950s redated the fall of Jericho to around 1550 BCE, a date that most archaeologists support.[14][15] In 1990, Bryant Wood critiqued Kenyon's work after her field notes became fully available. Observing ambiguities and relying on the only available carbon dating of the burn layer, which yielded a date of 1410 BCE plus or minus 40 years, Wood dated the destruction to this carbon dating, confirming Garstang and the biblical chronology. Unfortunately, this carbon date was itself the result of faulty calibration. In 1995, Hendrik J. Bruins and Johannes van der Plicht used high-precision radiocarbon dating for eighteen samples from Jericho, including six samples of charred cereal grains from the burn layer, and overall dated the destruction to an average 1562 BCE add or subtract 38 years.[16][17][18] Kenyon's date of around 1550 BCE is widely accepted based on this methodology of dating. Notably, many other Canaanite cities were destroyed around this time.
The widespread destructions of the 16th century BCE are often linked with the expulsion of the Hyksos from Egypt around this time. The 1st-century historian Josephus, in Against Apion, identified the Exodus of Israelites according to the Bible as the Expulsion of the Hyksos according to the Egyptian texts.
A few scholars follow the controversial new chronology of David Rohl, which postulates that the entire mainstream Egyptian chronology is 300 years misplaced; with the consequence that, among other things, the exodus would be dated to the 16th or 17th century BCE, and hence the archaeological record on Jericho would be much more aligned with the biblical account. Despite this, a number of literalist Christians, most prominently the respected Egyptologist Kenneth Kitchen, have vehemently attacked Rohl's chronology, since it introduces a number of other problems and issues (such as identifying the biblical Shishak as Ramses II, rather than the far more obviously named Shoshenq).

 

[sonoman]

I see. Then perhaps you should be the one to tell National Geographics that their discovery of Jericho (and subsequent fallen walls due to seismic disturbance, in an otherwise stable strata), was false.

It's best not to let anyone tell others what is real or what is not, based on personal opinion.

Oh, and I also think you doubt that Moses parted the Red Sea...but we know that it is possible.

Ockam's Razor

I rely on Israeli archeologists, Finkelstein and Silberman for their professional opinions, not National Geographic. If you need to believe in Old Testament Hollywood miracle stories to secure your belief then don't let me stop you. It just isn't my path. I need my faith placed on firmer ground.

 

[Quahom1]

Namaste Q, there is plenty of discussion in the Jewish communities that it wasn't the red sea but a swamp that was crossed and it didn't part like the apologetic scientists nor the Charlton Heston movie implied...the foot folks were able to cross and the chariots got stuck in the mud and hyperbole and victory stories took over...

and from wiki

Yes, the fifth finger feed of the "Reed Sea", not the actual sea body itself. I was aware. I also did a test as a kid in school with a scaled mock up of the Red sea with the finger feeds, and was able to "part" the water from the finger feeds with a "down draft of wind", from a smaller blower. Got the idea from watching the "marsh lands" being cut off from the ocean currents on the shores of Rhode Island, during "down drafts" coming off the sea and hitting warmer air on shore.

Still makes the "miracle" even more so, since it can be explained scientifically (the timing is what gets me as being the miracle).

v/r

Q

 

[Quahom1]

I rely on Israeli archeologists, Finkelstein and Silberman for their professional opinions, not National Geographic. If you need to believe in Old Testament Hollywood miracle stories to secure your belief then don't let me stop you. It just isn't my path. I need my faith placed on firmer ground.

As I explained above, I used theory, testing and observation to validate the probability that it did occur, just not the timing of the whole situation.

But test the theory for yourself. Take a cake pan and fill it with 2 inches of water, then take a hair blower and point it towards the center of the cake pan...neat reaction, watching the water "part", leaving a dry cake pan bottom, while the water "piles up" on itself on either side...