Moses' sin

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Dondi

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I'm a bit confused about something. I'm trying to figure out what Moses did that was so bad as to keep him from entering into the Promise Land.

Here is the situation in the Wilderness of Zin according to Numbers 10:1-12:

"Then came the children of Israel, even the whole congregation, into the desert of Zin in the first month: and the people abode in Kadesh; and Miriam died there, and was buried there.
And there was no water for the congregation: and they gathered themselves together against Moses and against Aaron.
And the people chode with Moses, and spake, saying, Would God that we had died when our brethren died before the LORD!
And why have ye brought up the congregation of the LORD into this wilderness, that we and our cattle should die there?
And wherefore have ye made us to come up out of Egypt, to bring us in unto this evil place? it is no place of seed, or of figs, or of vines, or of pomegranates; neither is there any water to drink.
And Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they fell upon their faces: and the glory of the LORD appeared unto them.
And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Take the rod, and gather thou the assembly together, thou, and Aaron thy brother, and speak ye unto the rock before their eyes; and it shall give forth his water, and thou shalt bring forth to them water out of the rock: so thou shalt give the congregation and their beasts drink.
And Moses took the rod from before the LORD, as he commanded him.
And Moses and Aaron gathered the congregation together before the rock, and he said unto them, Hear now, ye rebels; must we fetch you water out of this rock?
And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also. And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them."

So we are taught that because Moses struck the rock that God was writh with him and banned him from the Promises Land.

However, some two years before in the second month after the Exodus, God actually had Moses strike a rock for water in Exodus 17:1-6:

"And all the congregation of the children of Israel journeyed from the wilderness of Sin, after their journeys, according to the commandment of the LORD, and pitched in Rephidim: and there was no water for the people to drink.
Wherefore the people did chide with Moses, and said, Give us water that we may drink. And Moses said unto them, Why chide ye with me? wherefore do ye tempt the LORD?
And the people thirsted there for water; and the people murmured against Moses, and said, Wherefore is this that thou hast brought us up out of Egypt, to kill us and our children and our cattle with thirst?
And Moses cried unto the LORD, saying, What shall I do unto this people? they be almost ready to stone me.
And the LORD said unto Moses, Go on before the people, and take with thee of the elders of Israel; and thy rod, wherewith thou smotest the river, take in thine hand, and go. Behold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock in Horeb; and thou shalt smite the rock, and there shall come water out of it, that the people may drink. And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel."

So what gives? Was God toying with Moses the second time? I would think that it would be Moses' inclination to strike the rock since it worked the first time. If it were me, I'd probably would have made that mistake, too.

What am I missing here?
 
Namaste Dondi,

I'd love to hear the story behind the story and await the responses from our Jewish brethren, but to me it speaks to lack of faith. He's saying you didn't believe and had to go and do it on your own.
 
i don't know if anyone else noticed or if anyone even cares but i think dondi meant numbers chapter 20 and not 10.
Dondi said:
Here is the situation in the Wilderness of Zin according to Numbers 10:1-12:
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aaaahh what the heck do i know, right?
 
dondi
I'm a bit confused about something.
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you? confused? say it isn't so. but you're dondi! just kidding. anyways, here we go, man.


And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Take the rod, and gather thou the assembly together, thou, and Aaron thy brother, and speak ye unto the rock before their eyes; and it shall give forth his water, and thou shalt bring forth to them water out of the rock: so thou shalt give the congregation and their beasts drink.

pay close attention to what God tells Moses to do.

And Moses took the rod from before the LORD, as he commanded him.
And Moses and Aaron gathered the congregation together before the rock, and he said unto them, Hear now, ye rebels; must we fetch you water out of this rock?


Moshe sounds frustrated and angry here. maybe even arrogant.

And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice:

God never told Moshe to strike the rock.

and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also. And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them."

and last but not least, Moshe didn't give praise to God because of his anger and frustration. he basically didn't give thanks to God in the sight of the children of Israel. so the moral of the story here is this. DO EXACTLY WHAT GOD TELLS YOU TO DO, or else there will be consequences. knowing me, i could be wrong. but these are just my thoughts. thanks for reading.
 
hoover dam! i didn't know this was on the Judaism forum. ignore this fool and his ranting. my bad.
 
God never told Moshe to strike the rock.
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No, not in the Numbers 20 passage. But He very clearly did in the Exodus 17 passage:

"And the LORD said unto Moses, Go on before the people, and take with thee of the elders of Israel; and thy rod, wherewith thou smotest the river, take in thine hand, and go. Behold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock in Horeb; and thou shalt smite the rock, and there shall come water out of it, that the people may drink."

Hence my confusion.
 
but wouldn't you agree that Moshe was being arrogant and stubborn when he says

ye rebels; must we fetch you water out of this rock?

we? must WE? fetch you water out of this rock? where is God in the equation? where is the thanks being given to God? Moshe was about to cause a miracle to happen and he didn't recognize God because he became angry and frustrated at the children of Israel. i know that exodus 17 passage does say to strike the rock, but numbers 20 was a whole different situation. one where Moshe made a grave mistake by not glorifying God. but, like i said, i could be wrong, but it is a very interesting verse and one worth definately delving further to explore its deeper meaning.
 
true. that is an occuring theme throughout the TANACH, but i can definately relate to those types. they make mistakes and for that, they seem more real to me.
 
actually, leo, that's very well-spotted and it's exactly the answer the sages give: G!D Says, "whaddyamean, *we*??? I Think someone's getting a bit arrogant..."

there is another source where i think it talks about moses being supposed to command the rock, but he hits it instead. i can't remember where that is though.

b'shalom

bananabrain
 
Perhaps arrogance isn't the correct phrase? Perhaps, lacking in trust would be better? YHWH commands moses to make the rock yield water for the thristy and in anger/frustration (lack of trust in the commands of his god) he does what he does.....

Imagine me telling you to go talk to a rock, go talk to that stone over there... Make it create hamburgers.... For these thousands of people watching you right now... (spot light is on ya)

You wouldn't feel a bit silly? a bit angry that I perhaps are setting you up to look a foll in front of many people that are waiting for you to provide for them, heck you're leading them and you have assured them you will help them. (But I am not god!!! How dare I!) What I mean is, you would lack trust in my word, and that is what seems to have happened here with moses and YHWH....

Another example imagine someone is going to place you in a role of high responsability.... Imagine this person finds that you do no trust them.... How can they then trust you?

But YHWH said to moses and aaron, "Because you did not trust in me enough to honor me as holy in the sight of the Israelites, you will not bring this community into the land I give them."
 
Moses was a great prophet of God, and he prophecised the coming of a prophet even greater than him, namely Muhammad (alaihi salatu wa salam)
 
Abdillah,

That perspective is not terribly relevant in a thread on the Jewish perspective of Moses' sin.
 
Abdillah said:
Moses was a great prophet of God, and he prophecised the coming of a prophet even greater than him, namely Muhammad (alaihi salatu wa salam)
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Not really an outright warning offence, but a good one for me to test out negative reputation. :)

Abdillah, you may feel it's your right to promote Islam at other religions, but I don't think you'd be too happy if other people were allowed to promote their faith at Muslims on the Islam board. Try and be a good lad and be a part of the discussion. :)
 
Maybe if you stop looking only at the narrow FINAL event in the series, the answer will be apparent. There are many stories leading up to this.

Moses used to defend the Israelites to God when they grumbled. Then he "slowly" gets short tempered with them. This is not the leadership quality that God wants when leading the Israelites into the Promised Land.
In a sense, Moses became too good for the people he was supposed to lead; so he was replaced by Joshua.
Same thing happened when Elijah was replaced by Elisha: because Elijah became short-tempered with Israel(the Northern 10 tribes), Elisha- a man of the people, of the land- replaced him.
 
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