Dogs

[Amica]

Salaam,
Someone asked me how can we be Muslims and not follow the Prophet's sunnah. First, I want to apologize for not coming to the forum in a while (been busy).
Anyway, we can be Muslims and not follow that that is believed to be coming from the Prophet pbuh (other than the Holy Qur'an, of course).

We must know by now that during the time of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh, he did not want people writing down anything from him but the Revelation (Qur'an). Also, Allah Almighty states in the Qur'an that the Holy Book is the best Hadith, that it is detailed. A lot of things forbidden to us are detailed clearly in the Book. At other times, we are instructed to use our reason and common sense.

A dog, like many other animals, is a gift to us. This animal has helped humans in many ways through our lives. Dogs protect homes and other domestic animals. They help the blind and police officers. And of course, they are wonderful pets. Like many other animals, they can get physically dirty and smelly But so can we humans, no?

Common sense instructs us to ensure that if we are to prepare for salat, we should be clean regardless of touching a dog or not. If we play with the animal and get dirty clothes in the process, then by all means, wash up--change clothes, do whatever before you proceed with prayer. But to think that somehow dogs are evil, that just touchign them causes us to be totally unclean and therefore we must take full bath, change clothes completely, sounds just apsurd.

Allah Almighty instructs us to take full bath after certain actions, such as sex. If He meant that touching dogs is just as unclean, I am pretty sure He would have mentioned something like that in the Holy Qur'an. If according to the hadith collections angel Gabriel refused to enter Prophet's pbuh home because of a dog, I am sure Allah Almighty would mention it in the Holy Qur'an. After all, Allah Almighty often seems to answer back people regarding certain issues (i.e. telling us to ask the People of the Book about the End Time signs, mentions Prophet's wives' demands/disatisfactions of some sort, reveals thoughts of the unbelievers/their hidden actions and many other examples).

Angel Gabriel pbuh is a Messanger. He often came to Prophet pbuh with Revelations. Anything blocking the flow of the Revelation delivery would not be left out of the Qur'an as it would be something very important to be memorized for the rest of us (in this case that the dogs are dirty/evil and should not come in contact with us, since they would be preventing angels to surround us).

I hope we Muslims really analyze our sources before we brand them as sunnah.
Peace/salaam.

 

[Abdullah]

Salaam

The Quran verry clearly obligates us to follow the Sunnah, thus the Sunnah is binding on us.

If there are any hadiths which are verified to an acceptable level [as authentic], and it odnt contradict the Quran, then it is our duty to accept it, for the Sunnah ahs been preserved by means of perpetual practice by the muslkim Ummah, in memmory and in wirttewn documents [the hadiths] theo frmer to are probably? all avialable in hadith too.

here are some hadiths [with explanations] on dogs and what the experts of islam have deduced from such evidence...:

Before i start I'd like to say that dogs are Allah's creatures, thus should be treated with kindness:

Having a dog as a pet is prohibitively disliked (makruh tahriman). However, there is no harm in acquiring a hunting dog, or a guard dog to protect one’s sheep or property.

It is related by Abu Huraira (Allah be well pleased with him) that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “Whoever acquires a dog, with the exception of a dog for hunting, or guarding sheep, or protecting the harvest, then a large portion of his reward will be diminished every day.” [Reported by Bukhari and Muslim]

Abu Talha relates (Allah be well pleased with him), that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said, “The angels do not enter a house that has a dog or a picture.” [Reported by Bukhari and Muslim]

Now we can see that the above hadiths are related by Bukhari and muslim; these two compliations are the most authentic, respectively, hadiths compilations; such hadiths are rigorously authenticated and they do not contradict the Quran [they wouldn't have been clasified as such if they did contradict the Quran]

[SIZE=+0]It is known that the impurity of a dog is a major impurity because if a dog drinks in a container, it is an obligation to wash it seven times one of which or the first of which with soil. The Prophet

said: "If a dog drinks in any container of yours, it is an obligation to wash it seven times, the first of which with soil." [Muslim]. </SPAN>[/SIZE]</SPAN>

And here are the rulings of the four Schools of thought of mainstream Islam:

The Shafi’is and the Hanbalis have ruled that dogs are nejus [unclean]

In the Hanafi school, the saliva of a dog is filthy, not its skin or hair.

the position of the Maliki school is that spittle/saliva of all living animals is pure (even if it is a dog). The entire living animal itself is also pure (even if it is a dog)

But even the Maalikis prohibit having a dog other than for guarding or hunting...

And the following sheds light on a Maaliki view of for what other purposes keeping dogs maybe allowed:

Islam Web - Fatwa Center - A guide dog for the blind


REF:

Islam Web - Fatwa Center - Ruling on keeping dogs in one's house

Convert: Issues with Family Dog & Learning Fiqh

What is the ruling of keeping dogs in the Shariah?

Sadl in the Maliki Madhhab



Salaam

 

[Muslimwoman]

So are you suggesting that angels did not enter the mosque that the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) himself prayed in?

Volume 1, Book 4, Number 174:

Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "A man saw a dog eating mud from (the severity of) thirst. So, that man took a shoe (and filled it) with water and kept on pouring the water for the dog till it quenched its thirst. So Allah approved of his deed and made him to enter Paradise." And narrated Hamza bin 'Abdullah: My father said. "During the lifetime of Allah's Apostle, the dogs used to urinate, and pass through the mosques (come and go), nevertheless they never used to sprinkle water on it (urine of the dog.)"
​

This is in relation to this:

Volume 1, Book 4, Number 218:

Narrated Anas bin Malik:
The Prophet saw a Bedouin making water in the mosque and told the people not to disturb him. When he finished, the Prophet asked for some water and poured it over (the urine).
​

 

[Abdullah]

So are you suggesting that angels did not enter the mosque that the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) himself prayed in?

Volume 1, Book 4, Number 174:

Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "A man saw a dog eating mud from (the severity of) thirst. So, that man took a shoe (and filled it) with water and kept on pouring the water for the dog till it quenched its thirst. So Allah approved of his deed and made him to enter Paradise." And narrated Hamza bin 'Abdullah: My father said. "During the lifetime of Allah's Apostle, the dogs used to urinate, and pass through the mosques (come and go), nevertheless they never used to sprinkle water on it (urine of the dog.)"
​

This is in relation to this:

Volume 1, Book 4, Number 218:

Narrated Anas bin Malik:
The Prophet saw a Bedouin making water in the mosque and told the people not to disturb him. When he finished, the Prophet asked for some water and poured it over (the urine).
​

Assalamualikum wr wb sister

Hope your well sis

Sis, not sure about that, but the angels could have left when the dog came in, or they could have stayed in for the dogs passing was a quick temporary passing and they were not brought in by anyone...

In the matter of homes it may be different sis, for I think the principle of the angels not coming into the home where a dog is, may be to persuade people not to keep dogs as pets..., for the usual reason that dogs will be in peoples homes is that they will be kept as pets; also the dogs will be intentionally brought into the house by people and would reside their without quickly passing through it, so I think there lies the difference...

It has been proven sister scientifically that the dogs are indeed a health hazard:

From the medical point of view, which is our main concern here, the hazards to human health and life from keeping and playing with dogs are not to be ignored. Many people have paid a high price for their ignorance, as the tapeworm carried by dogs is a cause of chronic disease, sometimes resulting in death.

This worm is found in man, in cattle, and in pigs, but it is found in fully-developed form only in dogs, wolves and rarely in cats. These worms differ from others in that they are minute and invisible; consequently, they were not discovered until very recently. Biologically, the developmental process of this worm has some unique characteristics. In the lesions caused by them, one worm gives rise to many heads which spread and form other and varied kinds of lesions and abscesses. These heads develop into full-grown worms only in dogs' tonsils.

read on: Keeping Dogs: Science Supports Shari`ah - IslamonLine.net - Ask The Scholar

Also sis we know that a dog has a habbit of licking things; utensils in the house, our hands, faces, etc, and this transfers all the more the major uncleanliness [and the harmfull worms?] from them to us and our cooking/eating/drinking equipment...

And dogs have bad habits such as the following too sis:

How often have you come across the nasty sight of dogs taken for a walk licking their own excrement? Isn’t it disgusting to see their owners kissing the mouth of such animals after such incidents as if nothing happened? Would you kiss the mouth of your own baby if he were to do the same? Think how many parasites and microbes may be hiding in their mouths.

The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) has spared us from being contaminated by such filth when he ordered us to stay clear of the saliva of dogs. If we ever come into contact with a dog’s saliva we must wash the spot seven times, the first of which should be with sand or dirt. It is also possible to use a bacterial soap instead of sand or dirt.

Muslims Owning Dogs: Permissible? - IslamonLine.net - Ask The Scholar

I just pointed that out to show what type of harmfull and disgusting habits humans can pick up too if they get too 'friendly' with a dog; ofcourse dogs are Allah's creatures and we should not mistreat them, and there is benifit in saving a dogs life too, such as come in the hadiths, ...

i understand sis of why some people can get so emotional over this issue, for dogs are loyal, intelligent creatures and their facial expressions and emotions are so human like and evokes an endearing response from us,

and I think this may have something to do with the fractured culture in the West too, where many families dont stick together, and children dont look after their parents as they should and old parents are left to fend for themselves, and due to the non-arranged marriage system, many people cannot manage to get married too, and thus live single lives, and due to this shortage of 'human love and involvement', many people turn to the comfort of having a dog as a member of the family, a dog that remains loyal and is cuddly, etc, etc, and thus they can't imagine a life without dogs,

but sis, real success lies in sacrificing our desires and giving precedence to Allah's law and the Sunnah of the Prophet [saw] over everything else, and training our emotions, thoughts and feelings to be in accordance with it.

Hope that helps sis

Salam

 

[17th Angel]

lol you're a bell end....

Scientificly proven? What that some muslims are full of ****? Dogs have been proven to HELP humans..... Not just in the tasks they have been bred for but for the blind the deaf, those with blood pressure those with heart problems, it isn't the dogs fault someone kisses it in the face....... Don't try and pass off your half assed bs as an excuse to sully the name of the dog...... I put my faith in my dogs more than your bull **** god buddy.

 

[greymare]

i know im an interloper, but i had to respond becasue of the thread title....
yes, there are germs in a dogs saliva...
dont kiss them on the mouth.
and wash your hands after you pat a dog, esp if you are going to eat...
but honestly....................one of the worst germ containing things on the planet is ..............wait for it.................................................................................................................money.

and i understand that arranged marriages suit your life.... but it doesnt mean diddle compared to a western idea of marriage.....and yes, dogs are great companions,,,dont dis the dogs, man.

 

[greymare]

again i apologise for interferring, but .............mans relationship with dogs goes back a long way.................. a very long way.

now, i will leave you in peace.

 

[Penguin]

Man's best friend is his dog. Human's dont know what loyalty is!

 

[Muslimwoman]

wa aleykum salam wr wb Abdullah

and yet Allah makes a point of telling us that the men in the cave story had their dog with them ... yet they are unclean and should be kept outside.

Volume 1, Book 9, Number 490:

Narrated Aisha

The things which annul the prayers were mentioned before me. They said, "Prayer is annulled by a dog, a donkey and a woman (if they pass in front of the praying people)."

and yet Allah's Apostle would pray in the sanctuary with dogs playing around him .... also with his wife sleeping in front of him

I am going to take a mad wild guess and say you have never owned a dog? Their saliva is extremely sticky, a dog water bowl would have to be cleaned a number of times to get it clean.

What I find so sad is because of these ahadeeth thousands of dogs are rounded up and killed annually in Muslim countries, people throw stones at the dogs .. not to be cruel as such but because they are terrified the dogs might touch their clothes. What began as a hygiene issue has turned into animal cruelty all over the ME ... it's shameful, Allah created these creatures to be good loyal companions as we can clearly see by the cave story (why else would Allah mention the dog) and yet they are reduced to vermin in the streets because of these "tales" (which strangely enough agree entirely with pre-Islamic thinking particularly about black dogs)

So is it one Qirat or two?

Volume 7, Book 67, Number 389:

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:
The Prophet said, "Whoever keeps a (pet) dog which is neither a watch dog nor a hunting dog, will get a daily deduction of two Qirat from his good deeds.
​

Volume 4, Book 54, Number 541:

Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "If somebody keeps a dog, he loses one Qirat (of the reward) of his good deeds everyday, except if he keeps it for the purpose of agriculture or for the protection of livestock. "
​

 

[17th Angel]

sad and insane... retards.

 

[Penguin]

Yeah and that's putting it politely!

 

[Abdullah]

wa aleykum salam wr wb Abdullah

and yet Allah makes a point of telling us that the men in the cave story had their dog with them ... yet they are unclean and should be kept outside.

Alikum salam wr wb


but was the dog inside the cave or outside? ; dogs can be kept as guard dogs or hunting dogs as you are aware...

Volume 1, Book 9, Number 490:

Narrated Aisha

The things which annul the prayers were mentioned before me. They said, "Prayer is annulled by a dog, a donkey and a woman (if they pass in front of the praying people)."

and yet Allah's Apostle would pray in the sanctuary with dogs playing around him .... also with his wife sleeping in front of him

I am going to take a mad wild guess and say you have never owned a dog? Their saliva is extremely sticky, a dog water bowl would have to be cleaned a number of times to get it clean.

but it is obligatory to wash it seven times; grease sticks to your hand as well, but is it obligatory to wash it seven times then? ; the obligation, and the fact that were not allowed to keep dogs indicates major filth

What I find so sad is because of these ahadeeth thousands of dogs are rounded up and killed annually in Muslim countries, people throw stones at the dogs .. not to be cruel as such but because they are terrified the dogs might touch their clothes.

What began as a hygiene issue has turned into animal cruelty all over the ME

Well as you know sis, animal cruelty is agaisnt Islam and the Prophet [saw] said if you kill, kill in the most excellent of ways, i.e, quick killing with least pain administered, etc, thus culling of dogs may be ok if it is odne is a humane way; the Prophet [saw] himself culled dogs in his itme...

... it's shameful, Allah created these creatures to be good loyal companions as we can clearly see by the cave story (why else would Allah mention the dog)

For hunting and guarding [and it is considered by some Scholars [not sure if by all] that it is ok to use them to help the blind, as a police dog] etc]; loyalty is neccassary for these purposes ...

and yet they are reduced to vermin in the streets because of these "tales" (which strangely enough agree entirely with pre-Islamic thinking particularly about black dogs)

I think a lot of animal could reach the 'vermin' status [i.e, too much of a pest], but they shouldn't be treated cruely, and any Islam sanctioned culling should be carri ed out in the most excellent of ways...

So is it one Qirat or two?

Volume 7, Book 67, Number 389:

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:
The Prophet said, "Whoever keeps a (pet) dog which is neither a watch dog nor a hunting dog, will get a daily deduction of two Qirat from his good deeds.
​

Volume 4, Book 54, Number 541:

Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "If somebody keeps a dog, he loses one Qirat (of the reward) of his good deeds everyday, except if he keeps it for the purpose of agriculture or for the protection of livestock. "
​

InshAllah I'll get back to you on that sis, got to rush of somewhere now

Salam
​

 

[Abdullah]

So is it one Qirat or two?

Volume 7, Book 67, Number 389:

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:
The Prophet said, "Whoever keeps a (pet) dog which is neither a watch dog nor a hunting dog, will get a daily deduction of two Qirat from his good deeds.
​

Volume 4, Book 54, Number 541:

Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "If somebody keeps a dog, he loses one Qirat (of the reward) of his good deeds everyday, except if he keeps it for the purpose of agriculture or for the protection of livestock. "
​

the terms 'two qirat' and 'one qirat' could be figurative speech just to denote a large amount, or something like that...; or one hadith could have been said first [the one qirat one] and then later, as news of that spread, and as the people should be more aware now and should have adapted to not having a dog as a pet [if thy had one before], then later the 'harm' may have gone up to 'two qirats; not saying that that is indeed the interpretation, but just showing there are ways in which such seeminlgy contradictions could have a conciliatory explanation, thus it is not wise to play the 'hadith Scholar' ourselves

Hope that helps

Salam

 

[Abdullah]

i know im an interloper, but i had to respond becasue of the thread title....
yes, there are germs in a dogs saliva...
dont kiss them on the mouth.
and wash your hands after you pat a dog, esp if you are going to eat...
but honestly....................one of the worst germ containing things on the planet is ..............wait for it.................................................................................................................money.

and i understand that arranged marriages suit your life.... but it doesnt mean diddle compared to a western idea of marriage.....and yes, dogs are great companions,,,dont dis the dogs, man.

peace Graymare

Just washing hands before you eat and after you pat a dog isn't enough matey , for how many times a day are you going to change your clothes [when the dog licks them?] and how many times can you go around the house washing everything seven times that the dog licks?, and how you going to keep tabs on what the dog licks and what he doesn't?

Human hygeine and safety of health, and living clean and pure lives, should be prioritised more then keeping a dog as a pet

Peace

 

[Muslimwoman]

Alikum salam wr wb


but was the dog inside the cave or outside? ; dogs can be kept as guard dogs or hunting dogs as you are aware...

What the Quran states is that the dog had it's front legs on the threshold, so it could have been in the cave with it's paws over the threshold or outside the cave with it's paws over the threshold. Either way Allah saw fit to mention that the dog was present and if dogs are dirty beasts, as portrayed, why do you think would make the point of mentioning it?

but it is obligatory to wash it seven times; grease sticks to your hand as well, but is it obligatory to wash it seven times then? ; the obligation, and the fact that were not allowed to keep dogs indicates major filth

That does not address my assertion that Allah's Apostle would pray with these 'filthy beasts' playing around him.

Is not prayer pure, do we not make such an effort to be clean before we pray .. how can we be clean with dog hair, dog urine and saliva in the place we pray?

the Prophet [saw] himself culled dogs in his itme...

Yes he did but the necessity wasn't because people had been made so afraid to go near a dog they failed to care for them

For hunting and guarding [and it is considered by some Scholars [not sure if by all] that it is ok to use them to help the blind, as a police dog] etc]; loyalty is neccassary for these purposes ...

Guide dogs for the blind, police dogs, etc are all modern concepts.

I think a lot of animal could reach the 'vermin' status [i.e, too much of a pest], but they shouldn't be treated cruely, and any Islam sanctioned culling should be carri ed out in the most excellent of ways...

What a shame then that Muslim countries cull them so cruelly and fail to control their breeding because that would be unIslamic.

 

[Muslimwoman]

peace Graymare

Just washing hands before you eat and after you pat a dog isn't enough matey , for how many times a day are you going to change your clothes [when the dog licks them?] and how many times can you go around the house washing everything seven times that the dog licks?, and how you going to keep tabs on what the dog licks and what he doesn't?

Human hygeine and safety of health, and living clean and pure lives, should be prioritised more then keeping a dog as a pet

Peace

and yet you have not addressed the issue of the hadith stating very clearly that anything touched by dog saliva has to be washed 7 times, the last with dirt.

We know we can eat what hunting dogs catch for us .. would you really wash a bird 6 times, then again in dirt and then cook it and eat it???

Does that sound hygienic or healthy?

 

[Abdullah]

What the Quran states is that the dog had it's front legs on the threshold, so it could have been in the cave with it's paws over the threshold or outside the cave with it's paws over the threshold. Either way Allah saw fit to mention that the dog was present and if dogs are dirty beasts, as portrayed, why do you think would make the point of mentioning it?

Dogs are Allah's creatures sis, thus even if their saliva is unclean, yet there is no reason for Allah not to mention it in the Quran; Allah mentions the satan as well doesn't He in the Quran, and even the kuffars [I dont mean by this that the kuffar are 'physically' filthy as dogs, but overall, their much worse creatures ain't they?], thus such things can be mentioned in the Quran in their correct context; dogs are allowed for hunting and guarding, and this is what the dog of the 'people of the cave' may have been kept for; is there any proof from the Quran [or the hadith for that matter] that the people of the cave kept the dog as a pet; and one other thing we must consider is that, the people of the cave story is from a different shariah/era and not of Muhammad [saw's] era, thus in their times the law regarding dogs could have been different then.

That does not address my assertion that Allah's Apostle would pray with these 'filthy beasts' playing around him.

where is the evidence that that indeed happened sis?; do you mean that when dogs passed through the Mosque, that then the dogs were 'playing around Allah's apostle [saw]'?

Is not prayer pure, do we not make such an effort to be clean before we pray .. how can we be clean with dog hair, dog urine and saliva in the place we pray?

they used to put water over the spot where the dog used to urinate [i.e, they use to wash those spots]; this is a different matter alltogether, for the dogs used to come in through the open doors [that is presuming their were doors, and the Mosque at that time was not just an open space with pillars holding up a roof, for it could be the latter too] of their own accord and pass through the mosque; this was virtually unavoidable... and sometimes a dog may have urinated, thus the muslims cleaned that area; if inadveratantly dog filth does come into contact with a space in the Mosque, then you just have to clean that area and get on with life; this is not at all to say that such inadvertant soiling is proof that it is ok to have dogs as pets; this is an incredibly far fetched notion if you aks me

Yes he did but the necessity wasn't because people had been made so afraid to go near a dog they failed to care for them

I think it may have been because the dogs were becoming 'too much of a pest' due to them having multiplied in large numbers? and they were even creeping into peoples houses and hindering 'revelation', so this may be evidence that if dogs multiply to the extent where they become 'too much of a pest', then it is ok to carry out a dog cull [but I'll leave the final word on it to the Scholars for I am no Scholar]:




Hadith - Muslim, Narrated Maymunah

One morning Allah's Messenger [FONT=Helvetica, Arial][FONT=Helvetica, Arial]

[/FONT][/FONT] was silent with grief. Maymunah said: Allah's Messenger, I find a change in your mood today. Allah's Messenger [FONT=Helvetica, Arial][FONT=Helvetica, Arial]

[/FONT][/FONT] said: Gabriel had promised me that he would meet me last night, but he did not meet me. By Allah, he never broke his promises; and Allah's Messenger [FONT=Helvetica, Arial][FONT=Helvetica, Arial]

[/FONT][/FONT] spent the day in this sad (mood). Then it occurred to him that there had been a puppy under their cot. He gave an order and it was turned out. He then took some water in his hand and sprinkled it on the place. When it was evening Gabriel met him and he said to him: You promised me that you would meet me the previous night. He said: Yes, but we do not enter a house in which there is a dog or a picture. So the very next morning he commanded the dogs to be killed. He announced that the dog kept for the orchards should also be killed, but he spared the dog used for the protection of extensive fields (or big gardens).​

Muttaqun OnLine - Dogs: According to Quran and Sunnah

Guide dogs for the blind, police dogs, etc are all modern concepts.

thats correct... but modern concepts too can be fitted in within the framework of Sharia...

What a shame then that Muslim countries cull them so cruelly and fail to control their breeding because that would be unIslamic.

how do you know it's cruel sis?; what if they kill them instantly, like with a strike of the sword/machete or with a shot from a gun, or with a quick twisting of it's neck? [as for the 'terror' the dogs face when they are being chased, well one will have to 'chase' them to catch them no matter what type of method is employed in killing them]; lets remember that not all countries are super rich and super resourced to employ many 'dog catchers' and put them in trucks and have dog compounds, and have all the modern sophisticated tranqulisers, etc [even then the dogs that are culled in the West could undergo severe pain for certain types of lethal injections are said to kill with excruciating pain]; I think a country like Egypt has enough problems feeding it's poor

 

[Muslimwoman]

and even the kuffars [I dont mean by this that the kuffar are 'physically' filthy as dogs, but overall, their much worse creatures ain't they?],

WOW you surpass all common decency at times

where is the evidence that that indeed happened sis?;

In the ahadeeth you so vigorously cling to without questioning

they used to put water over the spot where the dog used to urinate

No they didn't and I gave you the link to the hadith proof in a previous post on this thread, because you are so trusting of hadith. They poured water over the urine of the Bedouin that urinated in the mosque but not the dogs.

I think it may have been because the dogs were becoming 'too much of a pest' due to them having multiplied in large numbers?

Actually there is sound proof from Medina that the dogs became ill, hence the Prophets order to kill them.

thats correct... but modern concepts too can be fitted in within the framework of Sharia...

That does not in any way deal with the issue of why Allah created them the way they are, unless you are implying that Allah knew they would after thousands and thousands of years be used for those purposes so prepared them that way in advance?

how do you know it's cruel sis?;

Because it happens here every year. When a pregnant dog is shot in the stomach and her dead pups fall from her stomach onto the street I would call that cruel.

And where in the Quran does it say if you are poor then it's ok to use cruel methods to kill animals? Maybe I missed that ayat!! As Muslims, whether rich or poor we have the same rights and responsibilities over the animals Allah has created.

 

[Abdullah]

and yet you have not addressed the issue of the hadith stating very clearly that anything touched by dog saliva has to be washed 7 times, the last with dirt.

, the word 'dirt' used by Shaykh Ahmed Kutty, is a word which has the definition of 'soil' sister, and not the type of dirt you may be thinking of ; and if you read it again, you'll see that the soil should be used 'first'; soil is a cleaning agent:

The Prophet

said: "If a dog drinks in any container of yours, it is an obligation to wash it seven times, the first of which with soil." [Muslim].

We know we can eat what hunting dogs catch for us .. would you really wash a bird 6 times, then again in dirt and then cook it and eat it???

this is in regards to hunting and feeding oneself; both which are imperative... [the former, for those dependent on it] if one is to survive, thus as there is a great extenuating circumstance, driven by the survival instinct in both, Allah has allowed using a dog for hunting and regardless of how the meat was caught or brought to our kitchen, people wash it thoroughly anyway, thus I dont see a problem at all of why some-one couldn't wash such meat seven times ...

Does that sound hygienic or healthy?

If you wash it thoroughly, yes, and as Allah has allowed it from His mercy, one does all he can to cleanse it thoroughly and leaves the rest to Allah; Allah can protect thereafter...

 

[Abdullah]

WOW you surpass all common decency at times

Your right sis, I need to be more sensetive

No they didn't and I gave you the link to the hadith proof in a previous post on this thread, because you are so trusting of hadith. They poured water over the urine of the Bedouin that urinated in the mosque but not the dogs.

This is a good point, but does the hadith clearly say that the dogs urinated in the Mosque itself?; it says the dogs used to urinate AND PASS through the mosque, now that could mean that they used to urinate some place outside the Mosque and then pass through the Mosque...