The Cross

N

Nick_A

Guest
The Cross is a symbol that can be taken superficially as is done very often in modern secular times. It is even ridiculed as in the famous Mapplethorpe exhibit with the crucifix in as jar of urine under the name "Piss Christ." Often the Crucifixion is defined as a political event normal for dualistic secular reason.

It is basically secularism gone mad but it is still interesting for a minority to get a glimpse of the deeper significance of the Cross. But to do so means abandon secularism for a moment and become open to the meaning of the vertical line of the Cross.

Where the horizontal line indicates what we know or the interests of secularism, the vertical line that intersects it represents the line of "being" which connects above and below. It represents what we "ARE" in relation to what is above and below our level of being.

The Esoteric Studies Website

Yet, the Cross is an esoteric symbol in its true nature. Those who truly understand the exoteric meaning cannot miss the esoteric meaning - this one is not only Christian; it reunites believers of all religions, who are not spiritual losers just because they are not Christians; no, all religions are carriers of reflections belonging to the same, unique primordial Adamic revelation. Religious intolerance is s.....c because it induces people into thinking that their belief creates some sort of spiritual hierarchy (the perception of a religion as being "better" than another one due to a person's belonging to that religion), differentiating them and creating war.
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If you read on, you'll see that the Cross is really a basic universal symbol. Secularism seeks to unite humanity along the horizontal line or what we KNOW. The spiritual man knows that unification occurs along the vertical line or what we "ARE."

But it is more fun to ridicule the Crucifixion, secularize it, or create "art" like "Piss Christ." How many are willing to explore the depth of what this ancient symbol means? But I post the article to encourage thinking for those open to it.
 
It's origin is Pagan... But to me symbols are just over glorified images.... I wear a cross (made from platinum, the image is two bamboo sticks bound in the center by rope) as I got it for my 20th birthday but it has nothing to do with religion... I like the image... Not the symbol. I use many symbols in art... And Will not, shall not be censored :) Nor should this piss christ lol... Not my style and it is that kind of art that I think sucks (just my opinion) but they are free to express it. To you it may seem like a piss take (boom boom) But to them it could be very serious to one it could be full of emotion and meaning to another it could simply be offensive and toilet humour (boom boom)
 
Alex P said:
It's origin is Pagan... But to me symbols are just over glorified images.... I wear a cross (made from platinum, the image is two bamboo sticks bound in the center by rope) as I got it for my 20th birthday but it has nothing to do with religion... I like the image... Not the symbol. I use many symbols in art... And Will not, shall not be censored :) Nor should this piss christ lol... Not my style and it is that kind of art that I think sucks (just my opinion) but they are free to express it. To you it may seem like a piss take (boom boom) But to them it could be very serious to one it could be full of emotion and meaning to another it could simply be offensive and toilet humour (boom boom)
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Many symbols are just glorified images. However sacred symbols have meanings within meanings that lead to the direction of the source. The more one begins to understand it, the more one sees is there to be understood. The Cross is such a symbol which is why it is at the root of Paganism as in ancient Egypt as well as in many ancient coivilizations. But its meaning of uniting our linear life with the verticality of our being is very ancient.

It isn't that I'm advocating censorship but rather mourning the death of respect for depth.

First of all I would appreciate anyone telling me the difference between art and expression before calling anything art. But art has become a word used also to justify being crude and that seems to have become for many, its greatest value.

Some men lacking respect for women could gather in a bar, get drunk, and begin a gang rape. It is justified through the belief that some women are not worth respecting. You cannot argue with this since people create their own truth. Since I have respect for life including women I would strive to protect her.

It is the same with sacred symbols whether it be the Cross or the Star of David. They both contain deep meanings that one can strive to understand for the benefit of their own being. But if people lack respect for sacred symbols, they will ridicule them through lack of respect as easily as a bunch of drunk men could begin a gang rape.

Rape is illegal while such ART is legal as long as it ridicules politically incorrect sacred symbols.

The irony of it is that all this ridicule is only a glorified expression of ignorance natural for being closed to "meaning." Yet this glorified expression is ignorance itself that prevents one from feeling the depth of a sacred symbol like the Cross which is able to have an awakening influence on ones being...

Well as long as they don't ridicule good scotch, all is not lost.
 
The idolization of symbols deserves ridicule, whether it's the image of Mohamed or the symbol of the cross. The fact that people are willing to kill to protect the honor of a symbol speaks to the need for artistic irreverence.
 
Killing to protect the honor of a symbol or trying reactively to defend values and a way of life?
 
I am sorry, but what I feeling as to what you are saying "Appauling" to me personally as a believer in God, and I find that it is angering me!

I wear my cruicifix everyday, I never take it off! I am sorry, but I am not able to open my mind to what you want to discuss.

I wear my cruicifix to remind me, that no matter how bad of a day I am having, that it will never be as bad as Jesus's last day on this earth!

What you are speaking of has nothing to do with belief or spirituality.

God Bless,
Ian
 
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Only Special To God said:
I am sorry, but what I feeling as to what you are saying "Appauling" to me personally as a believer in God, and I find that it is angering me!

I wear my cruicifix everyday, I never take it off! I am sorry, but I am not able to open my mind to what you want to discuss.

I wear my cruicifix to remind me, that no matter how bad of a day I am having, that it will never be as bad as Jesus's last day on this earth!

What you are speaking of has nothing to do with belief or spirituality.

God Bless,
Ian
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Hello Ian

I'm not sure who you are angry with but I hope it's not me. The whole idea of this thread is to suggest that the Cross is a sacred symbol that has meanings within meanings. For you when seen as a crucifix it represents the horrors of the Crucifixion. However taking it deeper the crucifixion itself provides a beneficial effect on Man's being. If Christ volunteers for this, it must have a good reason.

We have four alternatives. We can simply not care, think we already understand its depth so it is not worth pondering, seek to become open to what we don't understand, or ridicule what we don't understand.

It just surprises me that ridiculing is a close second to not caring. having respect for sacred symbols is an expression of experienced humility.

I'm not Jewish. I've had my recent friction with representatives of secular Judaism over its attitude as to non recognition of the Armenian Genocide. But these are individuals and are in no way indicative of the depth of the Star of David. So I am humbled by the symbol and sickened by those like Foxman of the ADL.

The point is that sacred symbols express the quality of understanding that leads to help for Mankind. The fact that they are so easily ridiculed is just a further indication of how little we understand and conequently how little collective hope we have for a better future.
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
The idolization of symbols deserves ridicule, whether it's the image of Mohamed or the symbol of the cross. The fact that people are willing to kill to protect the honor of a symbol speaks to the need for artistic irreverence.
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Blind secularism compells some people to lose the value of the cross making it an object of idolatry so for you this justifies the further abuse the symbol. OK
 
Netti-Netti said:
Killing to protect the honor of a symbol or trying reactively to defend values and a way of life?
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This reminds me of the flag burning debates. People attack the symbol which itself is representative of the right to burn it. If the ideals of the country are abused the thing to do is burn the flag or attack the ideals. We are a strange species.
 
Nick_A said:
Hello Ian

I'm not sure who you are angry with but I hope it's not me. The whole idea of this thread is to suggest that the Cross is a sacred symbol that has meanings within meanings. For you when seen as a crucifix it represents the horrors of the Crucifixion. However taking it deeper the crucifixion itself provides a beneficial effect on Man's being. If Christ volunteers for this, it must have a good reason.

We have four alternatives. We can simply not care, think we already understand its depth so it is not worth pondering, seek to become open to what we don't understand, or ridicule what we don't understand.

It just surprises me that ridiculing is a close second to not caring. having respect for sacred symbols is an expression of experienced humility.

I'm not Jewish. I've had my recent friction with representatives of secular Judaism over its attitude as to non recognition of the Armenian Genocide. But these are individuals and are in no way indicative of the depth of the Star of David. So I am humbled by the symbol and sickened by those like Foxman of the ADL.

The point is that sacred symbols express the quality of understanding that leads to help for Mankind. The fact that they are so easily ridiculed is just a further indication of how little we understand and conequently how little collective hope we have for a better future.
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Nick_A said:
Many symbols are just glorified images. However sacred symbols have meanings within meanings that lead to the direction of the source. The more one begins to understand it, the more one sees is there to be understood. The Cross is such a symbol which is why it is at the root of Paganism as in ancient Egypt as well as in many ancient coivilizations. But its meaning of uniting our linear life with the verticality of our being is very ancient.

It isn't that I'm advocating censorship but rather mourning the death of respect for depth.

First of all I would appreciate anyone telling me the difference between art and expression before calling anything art. But art has become a word used also to justify being crude and that seems to have become for many, its greatest value.

Some men lacking respect for women could gather in a bar, get drunk, and begin a gang rape. It is justified through the belief that some women are not worth respecting. You cannot argue with this since people create their own truth. Since I have respect for life including women I would strive to protect her.

It is the same with sacred symbols whether it be the Cross or the Star of David. They both contain deep meanings that one can strive to understand for the benefit of their own being. But if people lack respect for sacred symbols, they will ridicule them through lack of respect as easily as a bunch of drunk men could begin a gang rape.

Rape is illegal while such ART is legal as long as it ridicules politically incorrect sacred symbols.

The irony of it is that all this ridicule is only a glorified expression of ignorance natural for being closed to "meaning." Yet this glorified expression is ignorance itself that prevents one from feeling the depth of a sacred symbol like the Cross which is able to have an awakening influence on ones being...

Well as long as they don't ridicule good scotch, all is not lost.
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Hello Nick,

I can not say at this moment that it is nice to meet you. I am trying to read your opinion and what you have to say for a discussion, but you have already closed my mind to what you have to say, by the words that you have chosen to use.........maybe I will come back later, to reread what you have said, but I am not sure right now as I am having trouble seeing past the whole "Piss Christ" thing that you have said, and now you speak of rape being an art.

I am sorry that I read your thread, I thought that it was going to be something interesting to comment about, but you have changed that for me.

God Bless
Ian
 
Only Special To God said:
Hello Nick,

I can not say at this moment that it is nice to meet you. I am trying to read your opinion and what you have to say for a discussion, but you have already closed my mind to what you have to say, by the words that you have chosen to use.........maybe I will come back later, to reread what you have said, but I am not sure right now as I am having trouble seeing past the whole "Piss Christ" thing that you have said, and now you speak of rape being an art.

I am sorry that I read your thread, I thought that it was going to be something interesting to comment about, but you have changed that for me.

God Bless
Ian
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Hello Ian

You've read it all wrong. I simply said that art has lost its meaning which is why it is no longer distinguished from expression. Art than becomes expression with an intent for art which makes no sense at all

Piss Christ was the work of misguided fool trying to make a public statement without respect for the depth of a symbol. People justify it by calling it art. IMO this is just typical secular nonsense.

Rape cannot be art simply because it is a reaction to justify negative emotion. The point is that the concept of art is prostituted so as to justify our expressions of negative emotions. God forbid we should actually become willing to see and admit them for what they are. But no; that is too insulting so instead we seek to justify them and con others into accepting them by calling their expression "art."

Did words close Jesus' mind? Did he ever recommend the apostles close their mind or did he insist on the necessity to open it?
 
The cross is deeply meaningful to me. I designed a Celtic cross that I had tattooed on my back. The cross, for me, summarizes much of what I believe (both as a Christian and as a Druid) and so it is an excellent symbol for meditation and prayer for me. I am not sure if this is the place to go into the details on what it symbolizes, but if anyone's curious, I could elaborate.

That said, what others do with a mere symbol is just not very important to me. It's just an icon unless the person in question makes it something more. So while the cross is, to me, deeply meaningful, if another makes it into some sort of silly and adolescent art, I don't get angry. If Christ as He hung on the cross and was taunted could say "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do," then I as His follower do the same.
 
path_of_one said:
The cross is deeply meaningful to me. I designed a Celtic cross that I had tattooed on my back. The cross, for me, summarizes much of what I believe (both as a Christian and as a Druid) and so it is an excellent symbol for meditation and prayer for me. I am not sure if this is the place to go into the details on what it symbolizes, but if anyone's curious, I could elaborate.

That said, what others do with a mere symbol is just not very important to me. It's just an icon unless the person in question makes it something more. So while the cross is, to me, deeply meaningful, if another makes it into some sort of silly and adolescent art, I don't get angry. If Christ as He hung on the cross and was taunted could say "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do," then I as His follower do the same.
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Kim, it used to be that the only style of cross that had any appeal to me was the Celtic cross. Now that I'm getting in touch with my Christian roots so to speak;) I find another form of cross I'm unfamiliar with spontaneously springs to my mind while engaged in contemplation, which surprises me since before I wasn't big on cross imagery. But symbols of various sorts in various traditions have a long history of being used not just as objects of veneration but as means of facilitating meditative and contemplative methods of course as you note. Earl
 
Earl and Path_of_One

The whole point of the thread is to provide an indication of what many in society collectively ridicule through ignorance. The Cross is a sacred symbol. So why not write how the Celtic Cross is meaningful for you. What is its deeper meaning for you?
 
I think of the cross as being tied to the tree of life- it's vertical line bridges humanity and God, while it's horizontal line encompasses and embraces all in a spirit of unity.

Four points of the cross are indicative of the four seasons, four directions, four elements, and the four times of day (sunset, sunrise, noon, and midnight). They tie together these sacred aspects of nature, each of which is tied to an aspect or manifestation of divinity for me.

My own Celtic cross has at the ends of each beam a triquetra- which to me symbolizes the trinitarian concept. The trinity fundamentally points toward relationship- toward love.

The Celtic cross incorporates a circle of unity, of oneness, that was also a symbol of the sun, of light.

Finally, in the center of my particular cross, I have put the triskelion, which is three interlocking spirals. This symbolizes eternal life, and in particular (for me) a sense of reincarnation or continuity of life with change in outward form.

The cross combines so many of my beliefs. Jesus was hung on a tree, which had itself been butchered for no just or humane purpose. Jesus and Gaia, both innocent, both radiantly full of God's Light... both misunderstood, abused, mistreated, unappreciated, and often unloved. Bound to each other, providing the way to God.

The imagery is powerful to me as a follower of Christ- that a manifestation of the Divine, of Love itself, was put to death (symbolically, in a way that bound him to Nature) and yet in so doing embodied the bridge of humanity to God and remains in a state of perpetual embrace to all, forgiving us despite our cruelty.
 
path_of_one said:
I think of the cross as being tied to the tree of life- it's vertical line bridges humanity and God, while it's horizontal line encompasses and embraces all in a spirit of unity.

Four points of the cross are indicative of the four seasons, four directions, four elements, and the four times of day (sunset, sunrise, noon, and midnight). They tie together these sacred aspects of nature, each of which is tied to an aspect or manifestation of divinity for me.

My own Celtic cross has at the ends of each beam a triquetra- which to me symbolizes the trinitarian concept. The trinity fundamentally points toward relationship- toward love.

The Celtic cross incorporates a circle of unity, of oneness, that was also a symbol of the sun, of light.

Finally, in the center of my particular cross, I have put the triskelion, which is three interlocking spirals. This symbolizes eternal life, and in particular (for me) a sense of reincarnation or continuity of life with change in outward form.

The cross combines so many of my beliefs. Jesus was hung on a tree, which had itself been butchered for no just or humane purpose. Jesus and Gaia, both innocent, both radiantly full of God's Light... both misunderstood, abused, mistreated, unappreciated, and often unloved. Bound to each other, providing the way to God.

The imagery is powerful to me as a follower of Christ- that a manifestation of the Divine, of Love itself, was put to death (symbolically, in a way that bound him to Nature) and yet in so doing embodied the bridge of humanity to God and remains in a state of perpetual embrace to all, forgiving us despite our cruelty.
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The most interesting form of Christianity to me is Celtic Christianity which at least in its early formation seemed to meld the pre-existing Druidic viewpoints into its practice. Celtic spirituality is a beautiful thing and certainly it's no coincidence to me Kim that you're drawn to the Celtic cross as your views seem very consonant with Celtic Christianity. Perhaps you were a Celt in a previous life.;):D earl
 
The trouble with symbols is that they have different meanings to different people, so using them is like talking in public on a cell phone. People only hear half of the conversation. Defacing a revered symbol is the essence of warfare, and so is holding up a menacing symbol. A symbol is a word which, like a pet snake, can escape from the tongue's leash and live and grow on its own.
 
Dream said:
The trouble with symbols is that they have different meanings to different people, so using them is like talking in public on a cell phone. People only hear half of the conversation. Defacing a revered symbol is the essence of warfare, and so is holding up a menacing symbol. A symbol is a word which, like a pet snake, can escape from the tongue's leash and live and grow on its own.
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I agree this is what happens. The swastika is a good example. It is an ancient Hindu symbol. Once Hitler got a hold of it and perverted it, it now is associated with the most vile practices.

Swastika - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As you know, my interest is in Man's conscious evolution so it is easy for me to respect a sacred symbol and its connection to transcendence regardless of how it becomes perverted.. However since it is abused as a means of secular manipulation and control, the symbol becomes attacked rather than collectively admitting that the problem is us.

I am closer to the inner meanings of the Cross and it amazes me that its superficial ridicule is accepted and appreciated by the amount of people that do so.
 
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