Why 2 different accounts of creating man???

winner08

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Why does the Bible have 2 different accounts of God creating man?

Gen 1:27 So God created man in His own image in the image of God He created him. male and female he created them.

Gen 2:7-8 and the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living being.
Then in Gen 2:21 and the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept and He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh in its place. then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made int woman, and He brought her to man.

So why the two different stories?? on one hand God made male and female at the same time: created male and female.
Then on the other hand God made man then after a period of time He made female out of Adams's rib. What up with that??

Darren
 
Why does the Bible have 2 different accounts of God creating man?

Gen 1:27 So God created man in His own image in the image of God He created him. male and female he created them.

Gen 2:7-8 and the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living being.
Then in Gen 2:21 and the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept and He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh in its place. then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made int woman, and He brought her to man.

So why the two different stories?? on one hand God made male and female at the same time: created male and female.
Then on the other hand God made man then after a period of time He made female out of Adams's rib. What up with that??

Darren
Lots of discussion surrounding this one...there is the merger of the Jerusalem texts and the Bethlehem texts, the Yahwists and Elohists, satisfying both sides having both versions of creation and Noah. And then there are those that disagree, the apoligists proving that it all works taking pains and leaps to do so, and then the Metaphysicians, first it was created in mind, and then in physicality... It isn't just the creation of man that differs, the order of creation is significantly different day by day...

As they are both creation stories, not literal fact, but poetic renditions of folks trying to explain the unexplainable, the arguments are mute in my book. Gain out of the stories what you need at this point in your life, are you adam? eve, the apple? the serpent? the garden? the light?
 
Why does the Bible have 2 different accounts of God creating man?

Gen 1:27 So God created man in His own image in the image of God He created him. male and female he created them.

Gen 2:7-8 and the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living being.
Then in Gen 2:21 and the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept and He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh in its place. then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made int woman, and He brought her to man.

So why the two different stories?? on one hand God made male and female at the same time: created male and female.
Then on the other hand God made man then after a period of time He made female out of Adams's rib. What up with that??

Darren

Do you distinguish between the God of Genesis 1 and the LORD God of Genesis 2?
 
Lots of ways to approach that question. I don't have an opinion, but I have several opinions. A very interesting point of view comes from Joseph B. Soloveitchik in his book The Lonely Man of Faith. He says that the two creations describe two Adams, emphasising different aspects of humankind. One Adam is described as a communal creature along with his Eve.

ISBN 0-385-51408-5 from pgs 21-22 said:
In order to answer this triple question, Adam the second does not apply the functional method invented by Adam the first. He does not create a world of his own. Instead, he wants to understand the living, "given" world into which he has been cast. Therefore, he does not mathematize phenomena or conceptualize things. He encounters the universe in all its colorfulness, splendor, and grandeur, and studies it with the naïveté, awe, and admiration of the child who seeks the unusual and wonderful in every ordinary thing and event. While Adam the first is dynamic and creative, transforming sensory data into thought constructs, Adam the second is receptive and beholds the world in its original dimensions. He looks for the image of God not in the mathematical formula or the natural relational law but in every beam of light, in every bud and blossom, in the morning breeze and the stillness of a starlit evening. In a word, Adam the second explores not the scientific abstract universe but the irresistably fascinating qualitative world where he establishes an intimate relation with God. The Biblical metaphor referring to God breathing life into Adam alludes to the actual preoccupation of the latter with God, to his genuine living experience of God rather than to some divine potential or endowment in Adam sybolized by...
 
Hi,
Lots of discussion surrounding this one...there is the merger of the Jerusalem texts and the Bethlehem texts, the Yahwists and Elohists, satisfying both sides having both versions of creation and Noah. And then there are those that disagree, the apoligists proving that it all works taking pains and leaps to do so, and then the Metaphysicians, first it was created in mind, and then in physicality... It isn't just the creation of man that differs, the order of creation is significantly different day by day...

As they are both creation stories, not literal fact, but poetic renditions of folks trying to explain the unexplainable, the arguments are mute in my book. Gain out of the stories what you need at this point in your life, are you adam? eve, the apple? the serpent? the garden? the light?
I kinda agree with what Wil says here. Two or more different accounts, combined to make one. Also "but poetic renditions of folks trying to explain the unexplainable" comes to mind more often that not lately. Come to think of it, that's kinda what goes on over in these here parts, quite often. (ducks for cover)
.02
joe
 
Darren,

The creation of humanity on Day Six refers to the creation of humanity's astral bodies. The creation of humanity in the story of Adam and Eve refers to the creation of humanity's physical bodies. (The two events were separated by millions of years.)

The story of Adam and Eve is when sexual activity began, which is the true meaning behind the story of Adam and Eve. The story of snakes pursing fruit is clearly sexual in nature, which is what the story of Adam and Eve is really talking about.
 
Why does the Bible have 2 different accounts of God creating man?

Gen 1:27 So God created man in His own image in the image of God He created him. male and female he created them.

Gen 2:7-8 and the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living being.
Then in Gen 2:21 and the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept and He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh in its place. then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made int woman, and He brought her to man.

So why the two different stories?? on one hand God made male and female at the same time: created male and female.
Then on the other hand God made man then after a period of time He made female out of Adams's rib. What up with that??

Darren
What is so different? One is a generalization and the other gets into the details...:rolleyes:
 
Why does the Bible have 2 different accounts of God creating man?

Gen 1:27 So God created man in His own image in the image of God He created him. male and female he created them.

Gen 2:7-8 and the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living being.
Then in Gen 2:21 and the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept and He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh in its place. then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made int woman, and He brought her to man.

So why the two different stories?? on one hand God made male and female at the same time: created male and female.
Then on the other hand God made man then after a period of time He made female out of Adams's rib. What up with that??

Darren

It gets more interesting...one is the 6th day creation, the other is the eighth day creation.

Nick the Pilot is pretty close to how I understand, except that the "astral bodies" *are* temporal, that is, speaking of what science knows as hunter-gatherer cave dwelling Cro-Magnon, before agriculture. *The* man Adam, the eighth day creation, went on to become a "tiller of the soil," a farmer, at a time when humans did not farm. There is more to the story than simply sex, it is also about opening the mind (expanding the ability of rational and reasoned thought) perhaps brought about by a new diet including grain (creates chemicals in the brain somewhat like LSD, grain "expands" the mind). Genesis is about the generatiions of Adam and Eve...Cain is not included in that genealogy because the serpent was his father. Noah's family was found worth saving through the flood not because Noah was a good guy, but because the bloodline was still unpolluted.
 
Hi Darren —

Why does the Bible have 2 different accounts of God creating man?

A number of approaches. For one, it's the combination of two accounts, for another, we can see how creation came to be (Gen 1) and man's relationship to the Divine within it (Gen 2).

So why the two different stories?? on one hand God made male and female at the same time: created male and female.
Then on the other hand God made man then after a period of time He made female out of Adams's rib. What up with that??
Again, the Genesis 1 deals with the principle, if you like, man and woman are both human, so in Genesis 1, it's the creation of a human nature, which manifests in two genders.

In Genesis 2, we look at more detail.


Genesis 1: Why man is
Genesis 2: How man is

Thomas
Thomas
 
If I'm allowed to, I'd say the folowing.

It's difficult to say by whom was Genesis written. He wasn't Moses, because he couldn't describe his own death, right? But as I remember in the very end of the Moses's books he's described as a dead. It's another curious question, but I wanted to pay our attention to male/female problem in Bible.

As was said "the bible goes on explain more indepth", let's go on meaning this wise advise of BlaznFattyz. We usually judge prima facie, and it's incorrect as a rule.

In Gen 1:27 there scripted "male-female he created them". And I have no time to write about androgines which are met in every cosmogony. And it's connected with the Book of Enoch (or Ch'anoch, Enoh, Jenoh). Or maybe Plato will explain. And then, in Gen 2, speach goes about "post-androgines" time, when people were divided on males and females. This "rib" of Adam (our two-sexes race) means just "man and woman are both human" as said Thomas. The rib symbolize after all this connection between both sexes to be the same biological species.

I agree with a part of Nick the Pilot's sentention that "The story of Adam and Eve is when sexual activity began". Until in nature sexes appear, there was no "sexual activity", of cause. But I'm not sure the "astral bodies" as he said to be created on Day Six. Even from quaballistic point of view, astral body, or emotional psychical structure (a source of emotions), had appeared after 1,000s of years after the creation. It's incorrect, no doubt. They say Lemourians developed astral bodies, if I remember truely. It doesn't matter in question of Genesis 1 and 2. But I don't wanna say time doesn't make sense here.

But if you pretend to have a quaballistic knowledge, Nick the Pilot, you must have known that "Days" stand for "Seraphim". They (seraphim) were those masons to make the "dirty" work - to create the planet and all the phisical forms onto it. If everyone counts, or calculates, he will definitely see that God said "and it was good!" seven times, even when day-off. A? You seemed to loop the loop, dear pilot.
 
Hi Dharmaatmaa —

It's difficult to say by whom was Genesis written. He wasn't Moses, because he couldn't describe his own death, right? But as I remember in the very end of the Moses's books he's described as a dead.

A good point.

We should remember that the notion of 'authorship' has a very precise meaning in the current era, with its absolute attention to the cult of the individual and the ego ... a situation that is significantly different to that which was the case historically.

Taking the case of the Pauline epistles as an example, whilst we might infer from a study of certain texts that Paul was not the author — differences in style etc. — nevertheless the theology is the same, and consistent, so that we might say the author was of a Pauline school.

We do not say, however, that such a text is a forgery, or was intended to be passed off as from the hand of Paul. Rather it was acceptable practice in such cases for the author, not seeking his or her own aggrandisement, would name the piece according to its source and inspiration.

(Not saying that plagiarism and forgery never occurred, but rather that we cannot judge yesterday by today's standards.)

As regards the Pentateuch, Christian scholarship generally holds that Moses was the authority if not the immediate source of the text, and that the books were compiled under his direction and with his authority and, as it would appear, were completed after his death.

With regard to Genesis, the evidence pointing to two distinct texts, one from the Northern and another from the Southern tribes, with two different perspectives on the same Deity, an intensely personal Deity at that, should be acknowledged before one gets into further speculation.

It's also worth recalling that its really makes little difference what other cultures tended to believe, or looking to make Scripture conform with other bodies of knowledge ... if we can affirm one thing it is that the Jews were as touchy as an exposed nerve to the corruption of their sacred texts by incorporating material that was not part of their own lived experience, history and spiritual disposition.

In fact the rest of the world tended to look somewhat askance at a people which made such an inordinate fuss about such things.

It's also worth recalling that the Jews of antiquity were not as subject to philosophical relativism as we are today. Many make the mistake of not checking where they themselves (or their doctrines) are coming from, before asserting for sure they know where others are coming from.

Thomas
 
Why does the Bible have 2 different accounts of God creating man?

Gen 1:27 So God created man in His own image in the image of God He created him. male and female he created them.
There is no information about sequential order in the first version, so I wouldn't conclude that it means Adam and Eve were created at the same time. Can't really conclude anything about sequence one way or the other from that passage.

The story of Adam and Eve is when sexual activity began, which is the true meaning behind the story of Adam and Eve. The story of snakes pursing fruit is clearly sexual in nature, which is what the story of Adam and Eve is really talking about.
Hi Nick, I beg to I disagree.

Adam and Eve lost their G-d consciousness and were caught up by self-consciousness as a result of identifying with their self-will (in defiance of divinely stipulated limits on humans' possession and control over G-d given resources) and the phenomenal world of forms that they hoped to remake in their own image without reference to G-d's jurisdiction.

If I recall, in Judaism original sin is pride. I can see that. The essential element in sin, I believe, is the self-idolatry of trying to make oneself the center of everything. We're on the wrong path when we overestimate our capabilities - i.e., when we fool ourselves into thinking we can use our incomplete knowledge toward absolute ends.

We can really get into trouble when we think that our imperfect knowledge is on a par with having Divine Knowledge - i.e., when we conduct ourselves with the expectation to "be as gods," the serpent's promise. When taken in by this grandiose promise, the narcissistic over-estimation of finite capacities adds mental confusion by impairing the mind's creative focalization, and closing the individual off to the leadings of the Holy Spirit.

The Adam and Eve story describes a normal state of affairs. We all start out in a state of sin. Without a doubt, kids who receive communion at age 7 are unlikely to have confessed their sexual sins. Realistically, though, even at a young age children will have had a brush with evil - i.e., a descent into negativity - as Rev. John Macquarrie calls it.
 
Netti-Netti,

I believe in neither sin nor original sin, so we disagree on such concepts. However, You said,

"The Adam and Eve story describes a normal state of affairs."

--> In one sense, I agree. Adam and Eve began incarnating into physical bodies (the true meaning of the story, as I see it), which was natural and good, not a sin as many people think. (I think the first part of the story says something like they were naked and knew it not). In another sense, I disagree. The part about snakes leading us to temptation with fruit (an obvious sexual reference) is a reference to humanity descending into debauchery. (It is said that minotars, satyrs, and mermaids really existed, and were the direct results of such debauchery.) Thus, we read of the 'anger of God' as it is portrayed in Genesis. I think this is where the concept of sin comes from (and deservedly so).
 
Hi Netti-Netti — Nice post!

We're on the wrong path when we overestimate our capabilities - i.e., when we fool ourselves into thinking we can use our incomplete knowledge toward absolute ends.
Oh so true!

We can really get into trouble when we think that our imperfect knowledge is on a par with having Divine Knowledge - i.e., when we conduct ourselves with the expectation to "be as gods," the serpent's promise.
A particular interpretation of the serpent in Christian Hermeticism is that the serpent can only move on the horizontal plane — it can never hold the higher view.

When taken in by this grandiose promise, the narcissistic over-estimation of finite capacities adds mental confusion by impairing the mind's creative focalization, and closing the individual off to the leadings of the Holy Spirit.
The same Hermeticists treat of this in the aspect of the worm Ouroborus, which continually eats its own tail, a fitting metaphor for the mind which, left to its own devices, will consume and regurgitate itself ad infinitum.

In effect the self wills itself unceasingly, and always wants more.

The Adam and Eve story describes a normal state of affairs. We all start out in a state of sin. Without a doubt, kids who receive communion at age 7 are unlikely to have confessed their sexual sins. Realistically, though, even at a young age children will have had a brush with evil - i.e., a descent into negativity - as Rev. John Macquarrie calls it.
A couple of things here ... in the JudeoChristian context the Sin in the Garden was never sex (and sex in itself is not sinful anyway) ... the sin, as you have pointed out, is basically pride in believing one can be the equal of God.

The sin effects human nature, the Fall of the Primordial Couple led to a wound or corruption of the nature, not the individual, the ousia, not the hypostasis — so the idea of being born guilty of sin is a very poor and somewhat erroneous explanation, as so often people assume it means born condemned for something we could not have even done ... so a child who is born, and then dies, does not stand accused of any sin, but rather falls victim to the fact that its nature was impaired.

The baptism of children then, is to heal a wounded nature, exactly as it is in the case of adults ... as sin requires an informed and premeditated act of the will, children before the age of responsibility cannot be held accountable for sin, in fact technically, they cannot sin.

Thomas
 
The part about snakes leading us to temptation with fruit (an obvious sexual reference) is a reference to humanity descending into debauchery.
There are many interpretations. I did see something about an apple being a symbol for seduction. Thing is, Genesis does not mention an apple. It mentions a forbidden fruit. So the "obvious" sexual reference is perhaps not so obvious.....

Genesis 3:6 reads: "the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom." Not sure how a desire to become wise like the gods would be a tendency toward debauchery. Note here that not even the man with libidinal cathexis on the brain (Sigmund Freud) went for a sexual explanation of the Fall.

The idea was evidently to become like divine beings in terms of knowledge of good and evil. This knowledge was doomed to be incomplete. And by the very nature of its incompleteness, it would lend itself to a loss of perspective. The Genesis story of the Fall can be seen as a prototype episode of what happens when a finite understanding of things is mistakenly seen as equivalent to Divine Knowledge.

You might this describe the Fall as a "lapse into anthroprocentrism" (~ Prof. Carol Newsom). This development can be seen as an inevitable byproduct of humans' efforts to cope with the uncertainty of being finite creatures who were differentiated from G-d through the dispersal of created forms and beings throughout the phenomenal world. At any rate, the mind's anthroprocentric lapse provides a backdrop for the equally inevitable lesson in humility. It's pride before the fall. The illusions of self-idolatry are shattered.

Interestingly, it would appear that G-d set the stage for this development by allowing the human to classify the animal species ("the man called each living creature, that was its name. So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds of the air and all the beasts of the field") and by specifically authorizing the exercise of "dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” (Genesis 1:26, 28)

The primordial unity was dramatically changed by Adam and Eve's disobedience. Their quality of life was diminished as a result. The 'punishments' of sin included chaos and spiritual death (banishment from Paradise), broken/unequal relationships (Eve's subservience to Adam), and even physical pain ("thorns and thistles"). This is our here and now state of Fallenness and Lostness.

The consequences of mistaken self-importance are apparent if one chooses to pay attention. An earnest effort at correction guided by genuine contrition and openness to the leadings of the Holy Spirit will lead to new values and an improved set of choices. Someone who lauds the beauty of forgiveness but doesn't actually incorporate the better choices into their living hasn't really accepted the gift of forgiveness. If they had, they wouldn't keep doing the same thing as before. In a very real sense, the failure to apply the new values is a rejection of Grace. It shows disdain for the freedom to ditch the old and try something new and different.

The unwillingness to learn the lesson of humility continually adds to one's karmic burden, especially when it takes the form of conscious and willfull rejection of the Divine Possibility by means of a deliberate, inveterate, and self-propelled descent into negativity. Wouldn't this act of rejection stem from the mistake of defining oneself in terms of the lack? Isn't this identifying with one's own incompleteness and mistakenly thinking the lack is the self?

The attachment to self perpetuates a "vain, repetitive, vicious circle of recurrent birth and rebirth" - i.e, the individual is reborn yet again into the same old world of sleaze as the same old shabby self instead of accepting G-d's invitation to the New Life in Christ. I keep asking, but get no answer: Why? Why would anyone hold onto the old?
 
Netti-Netti,

You quoted,

"the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom."

--> Didn't God punish Adam and Eve for eating that very fruit? Why punish people for eating good fruit?

"...broken/unequal relationships (Eve's subservience to Adam)...."

--> So you see women as being cursed because of what happened? And you see such a curse as a good thing?

"...one's karmic burden...."

--> It has been said that biblical teachings go against the the idea of karma. Would you agree?
 
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