Who created God?

[muhammad_isa]

I think the evidence of patriarchy and misogyny generally and in the history of our religions particularly is enough to warrant a review of a doctrine that was laid down in the 16th century ...

..as it seem that there is some interest in this topic, I would suggest reading a liturgy addressed to the Bishop of Oxford in 1914:-
http://anglicanhistory.org/women/jwlegg1915.pdf

The women’s suffragist movement achieved sweeping changes, including encouraging the Church of England to offer an alternative to the "biased" vow in 1928.

An interesting fact..

By 1947, “to obey” had apparently been removed from the wedding vows of the Church of England so it was quite surprising, and rather controversial, that then Princess Elizabeth [Our beloved Queen] insisted on including “to obey” in her vows.

 

[Thomas]

Why does celebrity give weight to a person's beliefs ... Why does what Dawkins believes (about God) matter more than what the person on the supermarket till believes?

There's two points here:

The one is we live in an age of celebrity, so in almost every sphere a celebrity voice carries weight even when speaking outside their remit, as it were.

The other is Richard Dawkins is a classic case of someone who knowing something in one sphere (zoology) and applies its principle to another (theology) and thus makes certain a priori errors in his whole thesis – in this instance that God must be 'complex' because biological systems are complex. His work achieved some media fame because it was anti-religionist and sat nicely in with the other anti-religionist and particularly anti-Muslim stance of the New Atheists after 9/11.

 

[Thomas]

..as it seem that there is some interest in this topic,

If it is to continue, it should probably move to its own thread ... it's rather hijacked this one ...

 

[muhammad_isa]

If it is to continue, it should probably move to its own thread..

Well, as you suggest having a review, perhaps you should write to the Pope about it
Failing that, you could write your own review in the suggested new thread.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I wonder how many Catholics would approve of Pope Mary

 

[Aupmanyav]

According to Markandey Katju, former Chairman of the Press Council of India and former judge of the Supreme Court of India, "...there are six classical systems of Indian philosophy, Nyaya, Vaisheshik, Sankya, Yoga, Purva Mimansa and Uttar Mimansa, and three non-classical systems, Buddhism, Jainism and Charvak. Out of these nine systems eight of them are atheistic as there is no place for God in them. Only the ninth one, that is Uttar Mimansa, which is also called Vedanta, has a place for God in it."

Well, whatever Mr. Markandeya Katju says should be taken with a pinch of salt. He has gone senile since his retirement in 2011. See the number of controversies he has created in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markandey_Katju. Nobody gives a dime for what he says.
In Hindu philosophies, theism and atheism can exist together. Atheism exists in Vedanta also. The view I follow is strict 'Advaita' (non-duality) under the broader classification of 'Vedanta' (lit. at the end of Vedic studies). There are other 'Advaita' Vedanta philosophies which are very much theistic: Vishishta Advata, Shuddha Advaita, Acintya Bheda-Abheda Advaita (Hare-Krishnas), Dvaita-Advaita, etc. They worship Vishnu or Krishna.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..In Hindu philosophies, theism and atheism can exist together..

..as I say .. pardon me for my confusion

 

[Aupmanyav]

Many Hindus are in fact atheists.

Many is a nice word. It can mean two hundred and 200 million. Yes, with the expansion of education and influence of Russian and Chinese communism, many Hindus are atheist, but still, an overwhelming majority of Hindus are theists, basically polytheists, perhaps something like 90 or 95%.

Why does celebrity give weight to a person's beliefs, and what value does it have in the discussion? Why does what Dawkins believes (about God) matter more than what the person on the supermarket till believes?

What any other person, celebrity or a non-dsicript person thinks has no effect on my views. Read "Kesamutti Sutta" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kesamutti_Sutta) where Buddha describes what we should not take for granted. This is the original Occam's Razor.

 

[RJM]

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kesamutti_Sutta)

Thank you. Bookmarked to read later

 

[muhammad_isa]

I can add a fourth grand error of logic: Deliberate misunderstanding as a respectable discussion instrument?

What do you mean by this?

 

[RJM]

I wonder how many Catholics would approve of Pope Mary

What do you mean by this?

Catholics put up with a lot. But not with blaspheming the Holy Mother. Especially not on the commemoration of the day she watched her son dying on the cross

 

[muhammad_isa]

Don't be silly!
In Spanish speaking countries, people are named Jesús.
..so it's possible to have a Pope Jesús .. why not Pope Mary?

..maybe you are just trying to divert attention away from my "deliberate misunderstanding" ?

 

[RJM]

Deliberate misunderstanding is always the sign of a deceitful heart. No reference to anyone in particular
EDIT
Sorry I forgot the irritating smiley face

 

[muhammad_isa]

Sorry I forgot the irritating smiley face

Well, that's how ridiculous the idea of women's ordination in the Catholic church is to me !
I'm not saying that it can't happen.

It seems like yesterday when I was living in Dublin.
Abortion was illegal, and contraceptives could not be sold in pharmacies etc.

..and "progress" marches on..

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

The women’s suffragist movement achieved sweeping changes, including encouraging the Church of England to offer an alternative to the "biased" vow in 1928.

An interesting fact..

An interesting little known fact is that is was Tahirih that brought about this sweeping change, it is a shame humanity yet knows little about her. One person has said,

“Tahirih is a hero of not only one religion but of all of humanity,” Sayman Aruz, a poet and Head of the Department of South Azerbaijan Literature in the Azerbaijan Writers Union, told the audience after a play made about her. “She lived and died for divine and spiritual values for the whole of humanity. She has no parallel in the history of the East. She is the voice of freedom for millions.”

To many she is the first suffragette martyr.

Regards Tony

 

[Cino]

She has no parallel in the history of the East.

If Egypt counts as Eastern, then Hypatia of Alexandria is remembered as having had a similar impact, and suffered a similar fate at the hands of a murderous religious patriarchy.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Yes .. interesting, isn't it?
It seems that most people in the Western world today see feminism as a good thing.

On the surface, it might seem very reasonable, but when one digs a bit deeper..
satan is our enemy .. he is good at his job .. he wishes to divide us .. he wishes to cause enmity.
Neither man or woman can "win".
Do women REALLY think that they can be happy with "more money" and discard men's role into oblivion?
Many men don't seem to see what's coming..


It doesn't look much like paradise to me!

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

If Egypt counts as Eastern, then Hypatia of Alexandria is remembered as having had a similar impact, and suffered a similar fate at the hands of a murderous religious patriarchy.

Are you aware of what Tahirih stood for?

Are what they stood for, on the same Parallel?

May God bless Hypatia.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

It doesn't look much like paradise to me!

Equality is not sameness.

True Equality is recognising that we are all individual souls given by One God. That as individuals we are to become One in Spirit, one in purpose of service to each other under One God.

To achieve that equality means we must embrace what it is to be Male and what it is to be Female.

To say more than that only creates controversy.

Regards Tony

 

[muhammad_isa]

To achieve that equality means we must embrace what it is to be Male and what it is to be Female.

That doesn't really mean anything..
Those societies that don't judge by what God has revealed cannot be successful.

Feminism incorporates the position that societies prioritize the male point of view, and that women are treated unjustly within those societies

Now .. why should a society "prioritize the male point of view" ?
Isn't it a rebellion against men?
Do feminists care about men, or are they just being selfish?

Do men HAVE to look after women?
No .. they don't !
We can all become Monks