Is Jesus the only way to God

Quahom1 said:
LOL, we know for a fact that a wind sheer will part the fingerlings of the Red (Reed) Sea...

So historosity is most likely quite accurate. The timing is the Miracle...

Sorry you can't accept it.
Click to expand...
LOL so you don't believe the Red Sea story either...as related by the orthofundilists. But you do believe that this wind sheer can create 'dry land' of the muck on the bottom in a marsh full of reeds? Or you like me think the dry land yet another hyperbole. Now what of Numbers 33 where they had to camp by that same body of water days later? Or do you think also that King Soloman built a fleet of ships to sail in this reed sea or sea of reeds that was so shallow to be dried up by your wind sheer? In all cases yam suph is used as the word that describes the body of water, the water Solomon built boats on, the water that was parted and they escaped thru and the body of water that they came across after three days of hiking/escaping from Egyptian territory into Egyptian territory.

the timing is the miracle, and the suspension of belief
 
wil said:
LOL so you don't believe the Red Sea story either...as related by the orthofundilists. But you do believe that this wind sheer can create 'dry land' of the muck on the bottom in a marsh full of reeds? Or you like me think the dry land yet another hyperbole. Now what of Numbers 33 where they had to camp by that same body of water days later? Or do you think also that King Soloman built a fleet of ships to sail in this reed sea or sea of reeds that was so shallow to be dried up by your wind sheer? In all cases yam suph is used as the word that describes the body of water, the water Solomon built boats on, the water that was parted and they escaped thru and the body of water that they came across after three days of hiking/escaping from Egyptian territory into Egyptian territory.

the timing is the miracle, and the suspension of belief
Click to expand...
Actually, I'm going to instruct you on how to make your own miracle, Wil.

Get a cake pan and fill it with oh, two inches of water. Then put a hair dryer on high and point it straight down in the middle of the cake pan (don't touch the water).

Imagine what you see when the bottom of the cake pan is void of water, and "dry", yet there is water all around that dry spot...?

Like I said, parting the sea was not the miracle...the timing was.

v/r

Q
 
Quahom1 said:
Actually, I'm going to instruct you on how to make your own miracle, Wil.

Get a cake pan and fill it with oh, two inches of water. Then put a hair dryer on high and point it straight down in the middle of the cake pan (don't touch the water).

Imagine what you see when the bottom of the cake pan is void of water, and "dry", yet there is water all around that dry spot...?

Like I said, parting the sea was not the miracle...the timing was.

v/r

Q
Click to expand...
So much fun Q, heck of a hair dryer you have around that can displace 2" of water in a cake pan...post your demo on youtube for us all to view...and then if that don't work put your cake pan under a marsh of mud feet thick, hike your hundreds acroos the dry land and address the 'fact' that Solomon built his boats there, they crossed there with the miracle cake pan method, and then after a few days march straight back from whence you left and camp there again...

Q, the Bible is my sacred text! But it is getting stuck in the orthofundilist thought that causes folks to play with cake pans and then realize the lengths it takes to hold onto the mythology aspects of the text as true.

There are inaccuracies and inconsistencies which relate to oral traditions and man made thought...so what...revel in it...it was the nature of their time...not ours.
 
wil said:
So much fun Q, heck of a hair dryer you have around that can displace 2" of water in a cake pan...post your demo on youtube for us all to view...and then if that don't work put your cake pan under a marsh of mud feet thick, hike your hundreds acroos the dry land and address the 'fact' that Solomon built his boats there, they crossed there with the miracle cake pan method, and then after a few days march straight back from whence you left and camp there again...

Q, the Bible is my sacred text! But it is getting stuck in the orthofundilist thought that causes folks to play with cake pans and then realize the lengths it takes to hold onto the mythology aspects of the text as true.

There are inaccuracies and inconsistencies which relate to oral traditions and man made thought...so what...revel in it...it was the nature of their time...not ours.
Click to expand...
why don't you try it, instead of making fun of it...
 
Quahom1 said:
why don't you try it, instead of making fun of it...
Click to expand...
Try figuring out how the reed sea was so shallow that the wind blue it away and dried the mud? Or how Wise Solomon built a fleet in the marsh? Or how a few days after crossing, they ended up camping on the shores?
 
wil said:
Try figuring out how the reed sea was so shallow that the wind blue it away and dried the mud? Or how Wise Solomon built a fleet in the marsh? Or how a few days after crossing, they ended up camping on the shores?
Click to expand...
The "fingerlings" of the Red Sea are very shallow (ten feet deep), and the bottom is not mud, but stone and sand. One of the ironies of water body bottoms is the amazing speed at which they dry and crack, resulting in a type of clay like road.

Marsh boats are flat bottomed boats that displace very little water. (some less than 12 inches), yet they can carry great loads, and move quickly across the surface. camping on the shores, is simple they walked around. A man can cover 26 miles in two hours and change, if he is inclined to, why can't he cover 260 in two days, let alone four?

A soldier can survive on one hour of sleep out of every 24...they were running for their lives and were in the middle of a war.

They had incentive.
 
Quahom1 said:
A man can cover 26 miles in two hours and change, if he is inclined to, why can't he cover 260 in two days, let alone four?

A soldier can survive on one hour of sleep out of every 24...they were running for their lives and were in the middle of a war.

They had incentive.
Click to expand...
I realize it is ridiculous to try to debate this soldier on the other end of the keyboard...or any religious apolegetic zealot... but this is starting to be laughable Q!

A trained marathoner can move 26 miles in 2 hours...oh correct that, maybe 10% of trained marathoners (with world record incentive)

The record for running in 24 hours is what 120 miles? (160 on a treadmill in climate controlled environment with heart monitors) And please don't think the guy or the hundred that tried then slept an hour and started up again. (48 hour treadmill record 250 miles) Of course these were times of miracles...which justifies everything.

Oops these were men, women and children...the pace of a caravan 260 miles...amazing. Maybe you should get more than one hour of sleep soldier.
 
wil said:
I realize it is ridiculous to try to debate this soldier on the other end of the keyboard...or any religious apolegetic zealot... but this is starting to be laughable Q!

A trained marathoner can move 26 miles in 2 hours...oh correct that, maybe 10% of trained marathoners (with world record incentive)

The record for running in 24 hours is what 120 miles? (160 on a treadmill in climate controlled environment with heart monitors) And please don't think the guy or the hundred that tried then slept an hour and started up again. (48 hour treadmill record 250 miles) Of course these were times of miracles...which justifies everything.

Oops these were men, women and children...the pace of a caravan 260 miles...amazing. Maybe you should get more than one hour of sleep soldier.
Click to expand...
You have no idea, Wil, what a human being is capable of.

On the other hand, I do.

A man can go 72 hours without sleep before halucinations begin. A man can walk 100 miles in a day, if he has to. A woman can lift a car off a child, if the adrenaline is rich enough in her blood.
A marine can take 36 bullets to the chest and still walk back to the line, and live to father 5 children, grow old and die at 95.

Occam's razor...

With you, nothing is probable, with me, everything is possible.

Take the bloody test. Use a hair dryer to part the sea. Then we can talk about possibilities vs probabilities...

A man can't fly either...or can he?

http://uk.video.yahoo.com/network/100000088?v=9526
 
Last edited:
wil said:
I think we should have the capacity to look at both the formation of this country critically and the formation of the bible as well.
Click to expand...

Agreed wholeheartedly. I am not a fan of blind faith, nor do I follow blindly. I do follow, though, and I think that's key to being a Christian: as a sheep follows a shepherd, so too does the Christian follow Christ. What concerns me about the current trend of ubercriticizing the validity of the Bible is that the critics require every detail of a passage to pass a series of unpassable tests before their willing to test it out.

The Bible itself invites the Christian to test it out, and to hold onto what's good. When you consider the concept that Jesus Christ was sent to humankind as a bridge between humans and God, does it leave a sour taste in your mouth? Assuming that it doesn't, then what sense is there in putting the authorship of this gospel to the test? Either you believe in this statement for what it is, or you deny it; it's just that simple, and if one denies it for any reason other than that it feels like a lie to them then I'd say that such a one is fooling themselves.

It's funny how the sheep analogy has taken on such a negative connotation in our time, and yet was so essentially beautiful in times past. George Orwell, I suppose.
 
an interesting post

Marsh said:
Agreed wholeheartedly. I am not a fan of blind faith, nor do I follow blindly. I do follow, though, and I think that's key to being a Christian: as a sheep follows a shepherd, so too does the Christian follow Christ. What concerns me about the current trend of ubercriticizing the validity of the Bible is that the critics require every detail of a passage to pass a series of unpassable tests before their willing to test it out.
Click to expand...
Which should share to you that the lessons from Jesus are not what is questioned.

It is the observance of 'belief' or purely the requisite to remain complacent to the literary 'beliefs' that must always be questioned.

For example the idea of not being capable of making decisions or that a devil 'made you do it' which implies that no man is responsible for their actions.

Thes are not from Jesus, they are from christians

The Bible itself invites the Christian to test it out, and to hold onto what's good.
Click to expand...
spoken like a person of integrity but then

When you consider the concept that Jesus Christ was sent to humankind as a bridge between humans and God, does it leave a sour taste in your mouth?
Click to expand...
because then it means, you and i have no personal association with god and ONLY that man did, so we must return to the leaders of the belief (like sheep) for they hold the original documents and teach that they are the ones to tell us what to do.


i say, we are EQUAL to every human on this earth and the only real tangible difference is the honesty/integrity of each when paths cross

we should all be capable of understanding EQUALLY and if them of the religious cannot share what life is, pure to existence and God, then they DO NOT have the truth.

And Jesus himself said, another is coming, not that HE was the last word


Assuming that it doesn't, then what sense is there in putting the authorship of this gospel to the test?
Click to expand...

which author......? as no matter how you slice it, they were all human beings as none ever lived were/are perfect

we owe it to the future to question, until the absolute is understood; the quest must continue, faithfully

so then, either people care more for tomorrow and the evolution of knowledge, or the fool will lie to themselves about the truth already existing.

it's a choice thing!
 
Marsh said:
What concerns me about the current trend of ubercriticizing the validity of the Bible is that the critics require every detail of a passage to pass a series of unpassable tests before their willing to test it out.
Click to expand...
I've been said to be of the ubercritical crowd. And I say it isn't so. But what I do say is that we need be aware of its lack and expose them so others don't use that against us.

I'm perfectly ok with the fact that it was an oral tradition written down years later and odds are that very little if any quotes are actually word for word quotes. I'm ok with the fact that in order to remember some instance it was enhanced so it would be retold. It is the essence that has the value to me. And it is the disection by me and not others who try to use it against me that allows the rug not to be pulled from under me and allows me to not have to go thru inane conjecture to prove the unprovable.
 
wil said:
.. It is the essence that has the value to me..
Click to expand...

This has nothing to do with understanding the essence of Christianity, but in the past I did do a research on how the reed sea might have been split and how Jesus walked on water. So please humor me on this.

Theoretically, you can check into the Kahuna Hawaiian religion where they were supposedly able to manipulate something like ectoplasm, and walk on air in the old days. If that is possible, then one would have to be a great practitioner to divide seas, maybe ask God for help but its all possible, and may have looked like the wind was doing the work.

If the wind was really blowing that hard, it`d be worse than a hurricane, I can even visualize people getting blown away, so I concluded that it was some sort of medium that did the work. To me a lot of miracles in the bible make sense to me if I consider the esoteric aspects preserved in other religions, not that it matters as much as having faith. I am yet to physically confirm if the esoteric aspects exists though.

TK
 
TheKhan said:
This has nothing to do with understanding the essence of Christianity, but in the past I did do a research on how the reed sea might have been split and how Jesus walked on water. So please humor me on this.

Theoretically, you can check into the Kahuna Hawaiian religion where they were supposedly able to manipulate something like ectoplasm, and walk on air in the old days. If that is possible, then one would have to be a great practitioner to divide seas, maybe ask God for help but its all possible, and may have looked like the wind was doing the work.

If the wind was really blowing that hard, it`d be worse than a hurricane, I can even visualize people getting blown away, so I concluded that it was some sort of medium that did the work. To me a lot of miracles in the bible make sense to me if I consider the esoteric aspects preserved in other religions, not that it matters as much as having faith. I am yet to physically confirm if the esoteric aspects exists though.

TK
Click to expand...
Consider this. If you look at the video of the link of the flying man posted above, you'll note that the wind is blowing straight up, yet the are in control and can even stand on the floor below, while being submitted to winds in excess of 125 miles per hour. Wind coming straight down at 10, 20, even 125 mph will not drop a man to his knees, yet it moves fluid, like water, out of the way. It doesn't take much to part water and hold it back. The difference is the position of the object relative to the force of the wind. If a man is standing up and wind strikes him horizontally, it knocks him back, but if he is laying down, wind doesn't affect him from crawling (aerodynamics). If he is standing up and the wind comes straight down, it doesn't affect him, but if he is lying down, it might be very hard to get up.

Water being horizontal, would definitely be affected by wind coming from any direction above and most assuredly from straight above. It is fluid, and fluids move with opposing forces exerted against it. Any islander knows this innately.
 
The water rushes in and rushes out twice a day anyway. Aside from wind, there are two conditions that affect the strength of the tides: a funnel-shaped coast accentuates it, as at the Severn estuary between Wales and Cornwall (the phrase "tidal wave" originally referred not to a tsunami, but to the way the Severn flows backwards twice a day) and the Bay of Fundy in New Brunswick (where the world records for tidal shifts have been measured), and of course there are funnel shapes at the tips of the Red Sea; also, the tides are most extreme when the moon is at full or new phase, and it is specified that this happened near full moon.
 
Bishadi said:
For example the idea of not being capable of making decisions or that a devil 'made you do it' which implies that no man is responsible for their actions. Thes are not from Jesus, they are from christians...
Click to expand...

Not this Christian, and I don't know any other Christians who thinks they're not in control of their own decisions. Not sure where you got that one from, B...


Bishadi said:
...because then it means, you and i have no personal association with god and ONLY that man did, so we must return to the leaders of the belief (like sheep) for they hold the original documents and teach that they are the ones to tell us what to do.
Click to expand...

Actually, I'd say it is the opposite. Originally, people had personal association with God of the most amazing sort: the ability to hear God speak to them personally. God spoke to Abraham because Abraham was a righteous man, but he also spoke to Cain who was not, indicating that either good or bad, God's relationship with people was much different in the beginning than it is now. However, in the years leading up to Jesus' first coming, God hardly spoke to anyone, and apparently the prophets he spoke to were not instructed to speak to the rest of the people, which indicates to me that God had enough of us. It was only through Jesus that our association with God was restored-- and in a remarkable way, because Jesus spoke God's own thoughts, which is a return to the days when God spoke to all people, both good and bad. It is not the documents that one should turn to in order to seek God, nor to the interpreters of those documents, but to God himself and his chosen messenger Jesus Christ, whose spirit is around us and enables us to distinguish between truth and lies.

Thus, my argument remains: If you read any passage of the Bible and it feels sour to you, then by all means disregard it. This, however, applies only to Christians because, by definition, anyone who does not believe in Christ will not be able to accept what is written about him.
 
christs-love said:
Yes Jesus is the only way to God.

John 14:6Jesus said unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes unto the Father, but by me.
Click to expand...

isn't this one the "I AM" saying ?

If so then Jesus is saying the only way to God is via God or via the logos, he is not saying the only way to God is via Jesus the man.
 
Bingo, NCOT. If one wants to believe in a G!d that intentionally allows 90% of H!r creatures to not be allowed the opportunity to find H!m, it works. If, however, one believes in a just, loving, forgiving G!d, it does not pass the logic test (IMHO).

Pax et amore omnia vincunt!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top