[B said:taijasi[/B]]RubySera, et al,
Godspot sounds much like pineal gland (and/or pituitary body) as referenced earlier by Flowperson. The former has been called the "third eye" sometimes, and science verifies that, inasmuch as it relates it to light.
[B said:taijasi[/B]]
What really bugs me (you know I'm not addressing this to you, Ruby, or anyone in particular - just saying it) ... is when people who have never smoked a joint, or dropped acid, or any of this, decide that they're going to come off as experts on this matter, and start bashing drug use, and babbling on about how dangerous it is. I mean, not that I necessary disagree. READ what I just wrote. But before you offer your humble opinion (you, generic), ask yourself, what do you really know?
When was the last time you were high? Tripping? Drunk? Any of that. NO, you don't have to be trashed to offer your opinion. But I just love how people who haven't a lick of experience can somehow be experts on a subject.![]()
originally posted by wil
And all when they were administered the dosage of psilocybin...all felt oneness, expressed it...
You are exactly right, much peace can be obtained w/o drug use...and with drug use only a temporary peace if that is attained....for youth of today and yesterday and the day before that...drugs are an escape mechanism from the percieved foibles of reality.RubySera_Martin said:This is one thing that baffles me. Practically everything that is described on this thread regarding experiences while tripping is stuff I have experienced without drugs. Some of it I can bring on at will--the feeling of oneness or unity and it is very calming or soothing. I have used this a lot when feeling overwhelmed by life. I learned to do it beside running water, but when I needed it far from any running water I learned to do it with the sound of russling leaves or grass, or with the deep blue of the sky. There are times when I can feel it radiating from my upper body--from the sides of my head, my arms, my chest--to merge with the greenness of trees and grass, and with the sound of the breeze and with the light of the sun. At night when the only light comes from city lights it works, too. There is still the trees, the cars with other people...the sounds of the night. Some of the other stuff described in this thread is more like dreams while asleep.
QUESTION: If this stuff is available to the human without drugs, why do people risk the dangers of drug use? In other words, if spirit can be experienced with the unaltered brain, why subject such a sensitive organ to drugs? I'm sure there is a good reason, I just don't know what it is.
Wil, I agree with your first conclusion, but only partly with the second. About the meditation techniques, certainly - they've worked for thousands (millions?) of years, and so shall they continue. We hope!wil said:You are exactly right, much peace can be obtained w/o drug use...and with drug use only a temporary peace if that is attained....for youth of today and yesterday and the day before that...drugs are an escape mechanism from the percieved foibles of reality.
If more were taught meditation technigues or learned what you learned, or had their own religious experience...they may not seek this else where. However most who are taking drugs are not seeking a religious experience. The hieghtened sensitivity that the ancients sought...I can't answer for them.
I hear students in their mid-twenties lament the consumerism. They say they are just as bad as anyone else and they lament it very badly. First of all, I have no idea what they are talking about. Second, why don't they just stop doing it if they hate it so much? Sorry, this is off-topic except for the fact that they happen to be Christians, and you say this consumerism or whatever can be the cause some young people turn to drugs.taijasi said:And I do agree that so many youth are really seeking excitement, or even "ecstasy" as the drug name () suggests - yet with no real clue, idea, or understanding that this really betokens a far higher reality (Ananda/Bliss-consciousness, the Sambhogakaya). Yet there is another thing which I think they're trying to find, more so in terms of a means of escape. Escape from - materialism, whose (false or anti-)values pervade our collective societies as almost no other poison.
I identify strongly with the latter. I had one experience that I wonder if the first applies. It was back in the 1960s, I think. I was a child of about 8. I was being put to sleep to get my tonsils removed. The last thing I remember was a strange dream in which I was clinging onto the roots of a huge elm tree. It felt very hopeless and scary, like I might fall off into the abyss. There was no soil anywhere; just darkness. Is this what you mean by a downward movement rather than ascending? Again, maybe my questions are off-topic. This one is my effort to understand what happens when people take drugs to alter their mind or mood, so from that perpective it's on-topic.But the difficulty - and the distinction that I think folks intuitively recognize - is that only a Primordial (Alpha-state) type of Unity is glimpsed or experienced (by default) when unnatural methods (here, drugs) are used. It's the reverse of the arc - Divine EMANAtion, as opposed to Divine ASCENDing (no other word would fit). The latter, is Christ the OMEGA ... Teilhard de Chardin's "Omega Point." It's the Christ of the Mystics, as Meister Eckhart, whom Lunamoth mentioned on another thread.
Quahom1 said:The best "drugs" of all as far as spirituality, are a mom and a dad, who put their family first, instead of their careers and self. That is a high, no artificial concoction can top. You want spirituality, and to be high at the same time? Go fishing or camping, or bike riding, or anything with your kid. Take an hour out of your time to concentrate on the kid, and the kid alone. Do it while you're both young, and it will become habit as you get older.
Funny thing about spending time with kids. They feel "older" and you feel "younger", after...And you both want to feel that way again, so you seek eachother out...
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RubySera,RubySera_Martin said:I identify strongly with the latter. I had one experience that I wonder if the first applies. It was back in the 1960s, I think. I was a child of about 8. I was being put to sleep to get my tonsils removed. The last thing I remember was a strange dream in which I was clinging onto the roots of a huge elm tree. It felt very hopeless and scary, like I might fall off into the abyss. There was no soil anywhere; just darkness. Is this what you mean by a downward movement rather than ascending? Again, maybe my questions are off-topic. This one is my effort to understand what happens when people take drugs to alter their mind or mood, so from that perpective it's on-topic.
Thank you, Soma! I think you've provided a clear and accurate metaphor, and you make the most important point of all without being patronizing or judgmental!soma said:Hi,my first post, Hope i am not intruding.
When one gets high that person is high, just like the spiritual aspirant gets high, but the difference is one is using an external agent and one is simply going within the self. Drugs for some is the gateway to this spiritual experience and some get stuck in the gate and can't move relying on the stimulation of their glands by what agent they prefer. The physical agent can only shock the system to a certain awareness so hopefully the desire to increase the experience leads one to his inner path of joy and not to an increased dosage of a physical stimulation.
It is like going to the 20th floor outside the building and the physical scaffolding will only take you that far so the only way is down and then back up which takes more scaffolding each time because resistance to the chemical is built up. The people inside themselves, the building walked up the stairs, but they don't come down or maybe they choose to go down a couple of floors until they decide to climb again. They can climb even farther up the building and stop at whatever level they want. The views are the same, the path is gradual not as fast as going up the scaffold, but inside one is not disturbed by the wind.
We must remember the higher we go the farther down is the fall.
soma said:It is like going to the 20th floor outside the building and the physical scaffolding will only take you that far so the only way is down and then back up which takes more scaffolding each time because resistance to the chemical is built up. The people inside themselves, the building walked up the stairs, but they don't come down or maybe they choose to go down a couple of floors until they decide to climb again. They can climb even farther up the building and stop at whatever level they want. The views are the same, the path is gradual not as fast as going up the scaffold, but inside one is not disturbed by the wind.
Can spritual experiences through drug use be regarded as objectively real?
Can't say I ever have-or any other psychedelic for that matter. But as to DMT-ever read the book by a psychiatrist by the name of Rick Strassman? His 1 and only book published was re to his research with the drug & associated speculation. I read the thing. Here's the guy's website:Go take some DMT... Then come back here and ask that question again.....![]()