Suicide in the name of Religion

[seattlegal]

I think these martyr-murderers have squelched the issue of self-preservation (via their religion, which deceives them via a promise that cannot ever be proven to exist, i.e., paradise) and they are very much aware that being blown to bits pretty much snaps off the light switch with no time to register the fact that one is in pain or dead (academic argument, that last bit). Without getting into a theistic brawl, it is this aspect of much theism, to successfully implant a goal without proof or evidence of any kind, that gives rise to the endless chain of death we humans are amazingly willing to inflict upon one another.

Once again, Resigned, I don't think you can rightly attribute mass-murder/suicide to wanting to please God. Rather, I would say that it is a thirst for glory. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, the Columbine suicide murders, clearly were searching for glory (a means by which to be remembered) in their heinous acts. Is this search for glory the atheist means of self-preservation after life ends?

 

[Netti-Netti]

Every father swells with pride as his little girl approaches womanhood. There's just so much to look forward to: her first love, marriage, maybe an exciting career... and of course, stepping into a crowd to blow herself up in a deadly explosion of fire and shrapnel flying through the air at high speed… in God's name.

Which suicide bomber said she was doing it "… in God's name."

One other quick question: what do you get out of spamming this board with unsubstantiated claims? Just curious.

Once again, Resigned, I don't think you can rightly attribute mass-murder/suicide to wanting to please God. Rather, I would say that it is a thirst for glory.

Is there any reason to believe that's the case for female suicide bombers?

 

[seattlegal]

Is there any reason to believe that's the case for female suicide bombers?

If you want to explorer the differences between male and female suicide bombers, I suppose we could explore the link between testosterone and violence and the link between PMS and irrational behavior from the biological side, and male and female hierarchial roles and the phenomenon of so-called "honor killings" from the sociological side...

 

[Netti-Netti]

If you want to explorer the differences between male and female suicide bombers, I suppose we could explore the link between testosterone and violence and the link between PMS and irrational behavior from the biological side

Or we could look at their life circumstances or what they have to say for themselves.....

and male and female hierarchial roles and the phenomenon of so-called "honor killings" from the sociological side...

The OP suggested that behavior can be explained in terms of "one particular politico-religious ideology." What ideology supports "honor killings"?

 

[seattlegal]

Or we could look at their life circumstances or what they have to say for themselves.....

Their being dead might pose some difficulties in that respect.

The OP suggested that behavior can be explained in terms of "one particular politico-religious ideology." What ideology supports "honor killings"?

I would say that it cannot be attributed to any of the many ideologies that this phenomenon masks itself with, hides behind, and/or disguises itself as. It can be seen lurking within various ideologies and cultural groups, as well as widely-spread geographical locations, throughout mankind's history. This phenomenon reminds me of a "shell game" in its manifestations.
Societies with a well-developed hierarchy and an authoritarian bent seem to be more vulnerable to the manifestation of this phenomenon than other societies, imo. A twisted sense of pride and "honor" derived solely from the place an individual or group occupies within this hierarchy, and the perception of losing power, status, or "honor" by the possible threat of a change of status within the hierarchy might be a motivational force for these so-called "honor killings."

Something to explore.

 

[Tao_Equus]

Yes, I am sure you would like to do that, very much.

No. I would not. But I have noted you trying to do so or suggesting it on several occasions. You have the right of comment, try respecting other peoples equal right to comment too.

 

[Tao_Equus]

If you want to explorer the differences between male and female suicide bombers, I suppose we could explore the link between testosterone and violence and the link between PMS and irrational behavior from the biological side, and male and female hierarchial roles and the phenomenon of so-called "honor killings" from the sociological side...

I wonder if you are offered paradise and virgins for kitting out kids with downs syndrome or similar mental incapacities and sending them to blow themselves up in the fruit market? No doubt there is some passage in the Koran that will justify it.

 

[Resigned]

Once again, Resigned, I don't think you can rightly attribute mass-murder/suicide to wanting to please God. Rather, I would say that it is a thirst for glory. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, the Columbine suicide murders, clearly were searching for glory (a means by which to be remembered) in their heinous acts. Is this search for glory the atheist means of self-preservation after life ends?

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the perceived religious rewards that are promised to mass murderers in furtherance of their crimes. In the article published by the telegraph.co.uk there is no indication that personal glory played any part in the decision of the mass murderer to commit their heinous act. What the article does indicate is that an audience with the religions` inventor and other rewards in heaven is the result of a specific behavior.

I don't think you can disassociate a behavior so closely linked to the idolization of a religious figure (and to include rewards in heaven in exchange for a specific behavior). When the act is committed in furtherance of achieving goals promoted by the religion, the act is a function of the religion by definition.

The committed acts were not perpetrated for personal aggrandizement or for monetary gains. They were committed in exchange for rewards that are promised in connection with the religions proscriptions. The religious motivations could not be more clearly defined.

 

[c0de]

Resigned + SG + NewDawn

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the perceived religious rewards that are promised to mass murderers in furtherance of their crimes. In the article published by the telegraph.co.uk there is no indication that personal glory played any part in the decision of the mass murderer to commit their heinous act.

Refer to the more recent article provided below.
It clearly outlines the real motivations of the suicide
bombers and it totally refutes your point.

If you want to explorer the differences between male and female suicide bombers, I suppose we could explore the link between testosterone and violence and the link between PMS and irrational behavior from the biological side, and male and female hierarchial roles and the phenomenon of so-called "honor killings" from the sociological side...

In this piece, the captured female leader explained how she got new recruits.
She had them raped... and then told them that the only way they could
redeem their "honor" was to get martyred...

Iraq: ?Mother of the Female Suicide Bombers? speaks out - Nachrichten English-News - WELT ONLINE

We can look at the many varying causes behind male and female recruits,
but the only common factor which unites all suicide bombers in general I
have found is the desperate state of mind in which their recruiters find
them before indoctrination. I bet the Kamakazi pilots in WWII suffered
from this weakened mental state as well, despite their military service and
image as heroes. Their side was losing, and their officers asked them for
desperate deeds. Their morale must already have been shattered by that
point.

Compare this mental state with someone who would give his life
to save someone else's. Who would jump in front of a car to push
a kid out of the way... That sort of strength requires real courage.

No doubt there is some passage in the Koran that will justify it.

What passage did hitler use to exterminate the Jews?
Was he also reading the Quran? What about Stalin? Or Mao?

Maniacs are maniacs period. They will take something out of
a comic strip and twist it around to justify themselves. I heard
a kid in China burned another kid to death who was bullying him,
and he told the police that he thought he was a "Fire-Mage"
(from that warcraft game I think). Are videogames now responsible
for that kid's death?

No. I would not.

Don't go back on it now. You already said it bud. You would love
to censor opinions which are contrary to yours. And I am sure this
Resigned guy would too. He labels everyone who doesn't agree with
him as an "apologist" and refuses to answer their objections.

But I have noted you trying to do so or suggesting it on several occasions. You have the right of comment, try respecting other peoples equal right to comment too.

lol, you have "noted" that have you? Mind explaining how I
have supported censoring people's opinions?

 

[Netti-Netti]

'Mother of all suicide bombers' warns of rise in attacks

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/3464411/Mother-of-all-suicide-bombers-warns-of-rise-in-attacks.html

What ideology would predict an increase in the number of attacks over time?

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the perceived religious rewards that are promised to mass murderers in furtherance of their crimes... The religious motivations could not be more clearly defined.

Please give us an example of a suicide bomber who specifically identified the religious motivations you have in mind.

In case you hadn't noticed, every new post you put up includes more unsubstantiated claims. I get the impression that you don't really know what you're talking about even though you have spent the last 5 years of your life littering the Internet with this kind of thing...unless that was someone else operating under your screen name. Do you borrow other people's online identity?

 

[Resigned]

What ideology would predict an increase in the number of attacks over time?


Please give us an example of a suicide bomber who specifically identified the religious motivations you have in mind.

In case you hadn't noticed, every new post you put up includes more unsubstantiated claims. I get the impression that you don't really know what you're talking about even though you have spent the last 5 years of your life littering the Internet with this kind of thing...unless that was someone else operating under your screen name. Do you borrow other people's online identity?

I can't be held responsible for your inability to offer a relevant comment. You should stay with less taxing chores. Cartoons would be my suggestion for someone of your limited abilities.

 

[Netti-Netti]

What ideology would predict an increase in the number of attacks over time? Also please give us an example of a suicide bomber who specifically stated they were acting on the religious motivations you have in mind when you say

The religious motivations could not be more clearly defined.

 

[Resigned]

What ideology would predict an increase in the number of attacks over time? Also please give us an example of a suicide bomber who specifically stated they were acting on the religious motivations you have in mind when you say

Is it a desperate need for attention that compels you to spam this thread?

 

[Netti-Netti]

In the opening post you suggested that suicide bombers are ideologically motivated. Specifically, you stated that acts of suicide may be "closely tied to one particular politico-religious ideology."

Please define the politico-religious ideology you believe has some explanatory value for us.

 

[Resigned]

In the opening post you suggested that suicide bombers are ideologically motivated. Specifically, you stated that acts of suicide may be "closely tied to one particular politico-religious ideology."

Please define the politico-religious ideology you believe has some explanatory value for us.

You're not paying attention. I suggest you stop spamming the thread.

You may wish to hang out at bowling alleys or similar places to make friends who will engage you.

 

[Netti-Netti]

Resigned,

We are now a week into your thread and you have not yet defined the politico-religious ideology that you contend explains behavior.

How would you confirm an ideology as having an effect on behavior when you haven't even specified the ideology?

 

[Resigned]

Resigned,

We are now a week into your thread and you have not yet defined the politico-religious ideology that you contend explains behavior.

How would you confirm an ideology as having an effect on behavior when you haven't even specified the ideology?

More of the same spam. Do you suffer from ADS?

 

[c0de]

More of the same spam. Do you suffer from ADS?

According to Netti's intell, your the one who has been
proven to be a spammer over many forum board, for the
past many years. So why don't you actually try and engaging
in a discussion by answering the objections to your argument,
rather then crying wolf?

 

[Netti-Netti]

I was curious to know what dynamic others may think cause these acts to be so closely tied to one particular politico-religious ideology.

Why would you have people speculate about the importance of ideology when you have presented no facts regarding the ideology you seem to think is involved?

And again, how would you confirm an ideology as having an effect on behavior when you haven't even specified the ideology?

 

[Resigned]

Why would you have people speculate about the importance of ideology when you have presented no facts regarding the ideology you seem to think is involved?

And again, how would you confirm an ideology as having an effect on behavior when you haven't even specified the ideology?

And again, I have no desire to be an enabler to your spamming.