Religion and Bigotry is their a link ?

[Netti-Netti]

I don’t think it’s a broad brush stroke to point out the reality we see. Competing religious faiths are under siege in virtually every moslem majority nation we witness.

ok, so you studied nearly 50 "Moslem majority" nations? Can we see your findings please?

These are the everyday people in the moslem world to whom we are told to afford "tolerance" and "cultural sensitivity."

Asking for tolerance is to be equated with militancy? Can you keep any ideas straight?

It's not just wild-eyed Islamic killers with Kalashnikovs and high explosives that we have to contend with, it's this intolerant mindset that is the solid underpinning that motivates and inspires this utter disregard for equal rights. It's just as much an ideological battle as a martial one.

Please document the alleged mindset. I have data that indicate almost universal endorsement for democracy in Muslim nations. Do you have large-scale survey data that indicate something different?

It's clear that you want to generalize broadly regardless of the evidence. Unfortunately, you give no reason for anyone to take the generalities seriously precisely because they are unsubstantiated. You engage in characterization. Your posts don't even rise to the level of argument because they are devoid of specifics.

I respectfully ask you to stop wasting our time with this nonsense.

 

[Resigned]

Hi Resigned,

I don't know though. Certainly there are fascist elements in some strains of Islam, in some strains of Christianity, Judaism, Hindu, etc.... In some strains of the conservative Right in the US...in the ultra-liberal Left...

But that's a pretty broad brush you are using, isn't it?

And sorry I couldn't see it above, but what rights are Muslims saying they alone should have?

I forgot to add some excerpts from data supplied by the State Dept.

This particular link will identify some of the discriminatory practices in one of the more oppressive islamist fear societies: Iran.

Iran
International Religious Freedom Report 2007
Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor
Iran

The Constitution states that the official religion of Iran is Islam, and the doctrine followed is that of Ja'afari (Twelver) Shi'ism. Article 4 of the Constitution states that all laws and regulations must be based on Islamic criteria. The Government severely restricts freedom of religion.



There was continued deterioration of the extremely poor status of respect for religious freedom during the reporting period. Government rhetoric and actions created a threatening atmosphere for nearly all non-Shi'a religious groups, most notably for Bahá'ís, as well as Sufi Muslims, evangelical Christians, and members of the Jewish community.


Reports of government imprisonment, harassment, intimidation, and discrimination based on religious beliefs continued during the reporting period. Bahá'í religious groups often reported arbitrary arrests, expulsions from universities, and confiscation of property. Government-controlled media, including broadcast and print, intensified negative campaigns against religious minorities--particularly the Bahá'ís--during the reporting period.


…

The Government does not respect the right of Muslim citizens to change or renounce their religious faith.


Non-Muslims may not engage in public religious expression and persuasion among Muslims, and there are restrictions on published religious material.


A child born to a Muslim father automatically is considered a Muslim.


Apostasy, specifically conversion from Islam, is punishable by death, although there were no reported cases of the death penalty being applied for apostasy during the reporting period. Proselytizing of Muslims by non-Muslims is illegal. Evangelical church leaders are subject to pressure from authorities to sign pledges that they will not evangelize Muslims or allow Muslims to attend church services.

There’s more but the insanity continues for more pages.

 

[Netti-Netti]

This particular link will identify some of the discriminatory practices in one of the more oppressive islamist fear societies: Iran.

What is the point of citing Iran rather than 49 other Muslim states?

Are you a Muslim and, based on your religious upbringing, have reason to believe that Iran is typical of the ideology you have a problem with? If you're not a Muslim, are you a scholar?

I'm still trying to future out what you are trying to contribute here. What is the purpose of these various characterizations?

 

[Out of the Box]

It has struck me that many religious fundamentalist seem to be extremly bigoted.

Is their a link between belief and bigotry, is there something about faith that can cause individuals to be bigoted ?

People who strongly believe in a certain mindset are prone to narrowmindedness, but this is not exclusive for religious radicals. As much as they hold their own values superior to those of pretty much anyone else, iberals are among the most narrowminded people in the world precisely because of their superiority-complex.

 

[GlorytoGod]

People who strongly believe in a certain mindset are prone to narrowmindedness, but this is not exclusive for religious radicals. As much as they hold their own values superior to those of pretty much anyone else, iberals are among the most narrowminded people in the world precisely because of their superiority-complex.

LOL nice post, I like that

 

[Netti-Netti]

..liberals are among the most narrowminded people in the world precisely because of their superiority-complex.

Hi OOTB,

There is something missing from your analysis. Bigotry becomes an issue only with respect to wrong ideas. There's nothing objectionable about being attached to your ideas if you're right. This is why the notion of bigotry simply does not apply to liberals. It only applies to folks who don't have a proper liberal world view.

 

[Out of the Box]

There is something missing from your analysis. Bigotry becomes an issue only with respect to wrong ideas. There's nothing objectionable about being attached to your ideas if you're right. This is why the notion of bigotry simply does not apply to liberals. It only applies to folks who don't have a proper liberal world view.

Is this an attempt to be sarcastic?!?

If not, you pretty much prove my point. What makes you so certain that liberal are right and everyone else is wrong? Don't you see how arrogant such a viewpoint really is?

 

[Nick_A]

People who strongly believe in a certain mindset are prone to narrowmindedness, but this is not exclusive for religious radicals. As much as they hold their own values superior to those of pretty much anyone else, iberals are among the most narrowminded people in the world precisely because of their superiority-complex.

You've seen the light.

 

[Netti-Netti]

Is this an attempt to be sarcastic?!?

If not, you pretty much prove my point. What makes you so certain that liberal are right and everyone else is wrong? Don't you see how arrogant such a viewpoint really is?

One could argue that your suggestion that it was arrogant is arrogant.

 

[Out of the Box]

One could argue that your suggestion that it was arrogant is arrogant.

Rubbish.

First of all, I don't judge people by their viewpoints and I am or have been close friends with people as varied as a fascist, an anarcho-libertarian, a devout Catholic, several pot-smoking liberals, a black person, several lesbians, ... I've also had entertaining and mature conversations with nazis, Jews, Muslems, LaVey satanists, ...

Besides that, I don't automatically assume I'm right. I was raised a liberal Catholic, but experimented with various other philosophies as soon as I came to realise the flaws of the previously held philosophies. Although I've held my current views for several years and I'm more convinced than I ever was, I never give up questioning my views and putting them through a test in discussion.

Of all people I've ever met, you liberals are the most narrowminded. You just assume you're right and you condemn everyone who objects to your views in a way eerily similar to the ways of the Spanish inquisition.

 

[Paladin]

Like any value system Liberalism has its up and down sides. In truth, all the value systems starting with the Archaic through the magic/mythic and on up have some value. The problem lies in the illogical argument that one is "better" than another. The tendency toward a false dichotomy renders arguments like these pretty useless from an intellectual point of view.

The Liberal meme while being quite rigid and sometimes narcissistic also gives us a sense of egalitarianism, fair play and a more world-centric view. Again this isn't necessarily a better-than/less-than proposition.

 

[Out of the Box]

The Liberal meme while being quite rigid and sometimes narcissistic also gives us a sense of egalitarianism, fair play and a more world-centric view.

In theory, yes. In reality, however, their hate towards certain viewpoints is no less great than the nazi hate towards Jews. Also, their focus on humanity rather than nature as a whole makes them blind for many issues. Hence, I'd call them neither egalitarian, nor fair, nor world-centric.

Further, I wonder what's the benefit of egalitarianism (which they do preach) in the first place? Hasn't history provided enough proof already that the most succesful civilisations had complex social layers and were mono-cultural?

 

[Netti-Netti]

Besides that, I don't automatically assume I'm right. ...Of all people I've ever met, you liberals are the most narrowminded. You just assume you're right and you condemn everyone who objects to your views in a way eerily similar to the ways of the Spanish inquisition.

"You liberals"??? What?

I'm a registered Republican and I donated $2000 to McCain's campaign last year.

Your tendency to prejudge people based on almost no information about them is telling. Isn't prejudice an aspect of bigotry?

First of all, I don't judge people by their viewpoints

It's true. You judge them with hardly any information about them at all.

 

[seattlegal]

Bigotry is more of a glorification of self (or a group) than a glorification of God, imo. Sure, some people practice the glorification of something other than God like a religion. (Usually referred to as idolatry.)

 

[Paladin]

In theory, yes. In reality, however, their hate towards certain viewpoints is no less great than the nazi hate towards Jews. Also, their focus on humanity rather than nature as a whole makes them blind for many issues. Hence, I'd call them neither egalitarian, nor fair, nor world-centric.

Further, I wonder what's the benefit of egalitarianism (which they do preach) in the first place? Hasn't history provided enough proof already that the most succesful civilisations had complex social layers and were mono-cultural?

Really? Which viewpoints would those be?

 

[Out of the Box]

"You liberals"??? What?

I'm a registered Republican and I donated $2000 to McCain's campaign last year.

Why would you do something as stupid as that? With 8 years of GW Bush in the saddle and with the media being biased towards Obama, it should have been obvious to anyone that McCain had no change of winning whatsoever. This became even more clear when Palin came along.

Anyway, why would a genuine Republican take on the defense of liberals as you did in your previous two posts?

Your tendency to prejudge people based on almost no information about them is telling. Isn't prejudice an aspect of bigotry?

What prejudice are you talking about?

It's true. You judge them with hardly any information at all.

Where the **** do you get this quite offensive nonsense from?

 

[Out of the Box]

In theory, yes. In reality, however, their hate towards certain viewpoints is no less great than the nazi hate towards Jews. Also, their focus on humanity rather than nature as a whole makes them blind for many issues. Hence, I'd call them neither egalitarian, nor fair, nor world-centric.

Further, I wonder what's the benefit of egalitarianism (which they do preach) in the first place? Hasn't history provided enough proof already that the most succesful civilisations had complex social layers and were mono-cultural?

Really? Which viewpoints would those be?

The more one's views differ from those of liberals, the most one is hated by them. Most common victims of liberal hatemongering are people disagreeing with multi-culturalism, with "representative democracy", with gay marriage, with legal abortion and/or other viewpoints that seem to be critical in modern liberalism.

 

[Paladin]

[/i]

The more one's views differ from those of liberals, the most one is hated by them. Most common victims of liberal hatemongering are people disagreeing with multi-culturalism, with "representative democracy", with gay marriage, with legal abortion and/or other viewpoints that seem to be critical in modern liberalism.

How do you view these liberal values?

 

[Out of the Box]

The more one's views differ from those of liberals, the most one is hated by them. Most common victims of liberal hatemongering are people disagreeing with multi-culturalism, with "representative democracy", with gay marriage, with legal abortion and/or other viewpoints that seem to be critical in modern liberalism.[/i]

How do you view these liberal values?

I object to all of them. The consequence is that I'm often called a homophobe or a racist, even though one of my best friends is a lesbian and one of my favorite colleagues is a black man.

Most liberals just can't seem to understand that one can object to multi-culturalism without being a racist, that one can object to "representative democracy" without being a fascist or anarchist, that one can object to gay marriage without being a homophobe, that one can object to legal abortion without being a sexist, etc.... and their narrowminded approach makes them no less bigots than those bible belt racist rednecks out there.

 

[Paladin]

I agree, that type of behavior only sets up an adversarial relationship from the get go.
Too bad there can't be any real dialog between camps.
Unfortunately both reason and accountability seem to be the biggest casualties of this kind of war.