Namaste c0de,
Interesting I believe this is from one of the child gospels of Jesus? An apocryphal text ie not one of the canon?
So would this imply that 100 years after the canon the apocryphal texts were still widely circulated and taught?
Interesting I believe this is from one of the child gospels of Jesus? An apocryphal text ie not one of the canon?
So would this imply that 100 years after the canon the apocryphal texts were still widely circulated and taught?
So as not to derail this thread, and to get a wider audience I've put the last two posts over in the abrahamic section... http://www.interfaith.org/forum/apocrypha-in-the-quran-11047.html#post187405
17th Angel
לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות
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The title of this somehow, makes me feel as if someone is trying to suggest; Well these two say it's wrong so the majority vote rules.... But, two wrongs don't make a right 
juwes and christians cannot even agree on the same things... One has taken the orignal and adapted it...
But looking at it... There are many references in all three... well... Two (heh) books. (concept of god and being one god) (Creation) )(profits) (laws) (death/afterlife) (morales) (sense of superiotiy)... It's all there....
(2:177 Qu'ran):To Him is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth; when He decreeth a matter, He saith to it: ‘Be’; and it is.
Sound familiar?
The Torah came along... Oh a group liked it but slighty, modfied the story, then another group came along and made a new book but based it on the others and modfied names and left some little bits out lol.
juwes and christians cannot even agree on the same things... One has taken the orignal and adapted it... But looking at it... There are many references in all three... well... Two (heh) books. (concept of god and being one god) (Creation) )(profits) (laws) (death/afterlife) (morales) (sense of superiotiy)... It's all there....
(2:177 Qu'ran):To Him is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth; when He decreeth a matter, He saith to it: ‘Be’; and it is.
Sound familiar?
The Torah came along... Oh a group liked it but slighty, modfied the story, then another group came along and made a new book but based it on the others and modfied names and left some little bits out lol.
dailogue is the best
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Salaam DIB
I try
I feel your efforts, brother. My best wishes
Do you mean that other prophets werent having a healthy life, that's why the Quran didnt refer to their speaking as children? Do you mean that Jesus peace be upon him was an exception in having a healthy life , that's why the Quran refers to his talking as a child?!! Actually, he was an exception. But, not in the metaphorical meaning you stated. He was an exception in the physical sense when he talked while he was a child in the cradle. And I supported you, c0de, with a verse wherein God Himself asserts that fact, if you insist on interpreting the priests's addressing to Jesus as a sort of contempt.
I think this is where the importance of understanding the mother language of the Quran lies. The Arabic language makes it clear for the Quran's readers that Mary peace be upon her was really virgin, when she delivered the news as well as when she was giving bith of her child.
In the Quran, we find the following:
[19:19] He said, "I am the messenger of your Lord, to grant you a pure son."
[19:20] She said, "How can I have a son, when no man has touched me; I have never been unchaste." [19:21] He said, "Thus said your Lord, `It is easy for Me. We will render him a sign for the people, and mercy from us. This is a predestined matter.' "
Can you tell me, c0de, what's the use of Mary's objection against having a child if she was married?!! And if I belived your story about Mary having a husband the next day, then, brother, what's the use of the Quran's telling of Mary's objection ?!!! Is it for the purpose of misleading some!!?!
relax DIB, all those exclamation marks aren't good for the blood pressure
Dont worry about me, brother. I have to admit that I was exclaiming with a big laugh because it seemed to me very funny for a woman to wish to be forgotten because of birthpain.
Excellent, c0de. Now you are getting to the point. It is right she was not accused of anything at the time she was giving birth to be ashamed of. So, the reasonable interpretation is that Mary was really virgin. She was feeling of the shame of a virgin woman to have a child. That's why, she wished to be really forgotten or dead.
No, brother, Jesus peace be upon him talked while he was really in the cradle, and this is supported by God's Words, too. The attacks Mary faced when she came to her tribe with the baby in the cradle were direct attacks against Mary for having a child, while they truly knew she was not married.
ps: what does it mean writing PeAcE in this way?
In God's protection
c0de
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I feel your efforts, brother. My best wishes
Well then, what more can I ask?
LOL! Exactly, he was an exception. The Christians say he died on the cross, so do the Jews. It is only the Quran which says that he lived a full healthy life. That is the reason for the exception.
Your support is much appreciated as always sis
But she wasn't married when this revelation was granted to her. I never said that she was. (we know she wasn't).Dont worry about me, brother. I have to admit that I was exclaiming with a big laugh because it seemed to me very funny for a woman to wish to be forgotten because of birthpain.
Have you experienced such pain yourself?... I can tell you that the moments of extreme pain that I have gone through in my life, I wished the same thing. Non-existence seems a better option when you are in the midst of despair DIB. I hope you never get to experience such pain so that you find out for yourself.
Aain you are speculating. Also, your point is illogical. Why would she feel shame if she had been granted such an immense honor that no other human being had been granted before her? It is much more reasonable that her cry had nothing to do with shame.
But I already said that he did talk while he was in the cradle
Do you have proof that he talked in anyway that was not-normal for a child his age? There is more proof that he was a normal child then not. Because if he was not speaking like a normal child (but as a grown up), then he would be the greatest threat to the priests anyway, in which case you would contradict your own argument.Thats circumstantial again DIB. You don't know God's purpose, and neither do I. All we know is that both arguments can be supported through these verses. What has to be accepted is that this issue has been left ambigious for a reason, and God obviously has a purpose for leaving it this way. In fact, the whole story of Jesus pbuh has been left like this and even God himself says that people will never know what really happened and keep arguing.
This is why I am saying that you can not say: that you are sure that a virgin birth took place. You can only assert that conclusion. That is all I am saying.
ps: what does it mean writing PeAcE in this way?
lol ur funny DIB
PeAcE
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I thought we might go back to the OP topic, "Why Judaism and Christianity reject Koran?"
Here's a picture of Christianity "rejecting" the Koran:
It seems "rejection" takes many forms.
Here's a picture of Christianity "rejecting" the Koran:
It seems "rejection" takes many forms.
Dream
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Who is that standing there next to the Koran?
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Pardon, Netti Netti. But, I have to explain some important things..
Come on, Code. Do you support your argument that Jesus peace be upon him lived a full healthy life by his speaking in the cradle?!!! What is the realtion of that with the fact that Jesus peace be upon him wasnt crucified?!!
I think that the fault you are making, c0de, is that you are isolating words from their real context, and this is a very dangerous cz it leads to robbing the real meaning of words.
God bless you, brother..
Look, brother. The verses between Mary peace be upon her and the angel Gabriel were direct talk that followed directly by Mary' pregrancy of Jesus peace be upon her, and then giving birth of Jesus. The Arabic language makes it clear that the actions were following each other directly. I was wondering about from where you got your understanding till I v found out that it is the english translation that may be the reason.
The conversation between Mary and Gabriel peace be upon them is related be connecting words that I notice are abscent in the English translation. In the english translation, we find that once Mary peace be uopn her was pregnant, the English translation said: " when she bore him,..." which gives an impression of a distance of time between the conversation, and Mary's pregnancy..a
Now, look at the Arabic version what it says. The conversation between Mray and Gabriel peace be upon them was directly followed by the Arabic conncting word "FA", which means in English "then directly" more than "when". The use of "when" here is really not aproppriate, and leads to the deformation of meaning. So, the use of the connecting word "FA" (then) for a Abdullah ibn Abbas, the most learned companions of the Prophet, meant that Mary peace be upon her became pregnant directly after her conversation with the angel Galbriel, and also her going to an isolated place, and giving birth of Jesus peace be upon him were direct actions that took place immediately after the conversation.
The Arabic verses say: "FA"(then immediately) she bore him, "FA" isolated herself in a farway place. "FA" the birth process came to her by the trank of the palm tree...."
As you v found out, brother, translation is a never sincere transmition of meaning. That's why, you find all the Arabic world believe in the virgin birth of Mary. Not because of the effect of the Christian traditions, but rather because of the clear meaning the Arabic language transmits.
What shall I say, brother?!!! I ve never seen or heard that someone wished to be forgotten so that he could give up his/her pain?!! what is the relation of wishing to be forgottem anmong people and pain?!!!!!!!!!(exclamation has nothing to do with blood`pressure, but I m really puzzled)..I passed by moments wherein I wished that earth swallowed me because I behaved in bad, shameful wayo).
You used the term non-existence (death) to express the situation you wished when you were in pain. I accord with you. Yes, one wishes to be dead at trying times. That's somthing reasonable in order to stop suffering. Yet, wishing that others forget you simply shows one's feelings of shame. Mary peace be upon her was really shameful. That's why she wished she was really of no big position in her tribe, and somenone of no value.
Thanks for your hope, c0de. But who doesnt experience the downs of life?! But, I hope for you, me and all people joys forever..
Mary peace be upon her was a normal human being who went through mixing psychological feelings that any pure woman would feel in such case. Mary peace be upon her was brought up in an atmosphere of high morals and ethics. How could such a woman accept easily the idea of being pregnant while she was really virgin?!! How could she digest this idea in that very short time, esp as I explained to you above that pregnancy and giving birth took place immediately after her conversation with the angel Galbriel. And that's why, God asked her not to talk to her tribe when she came back to it with the child, and that's why, God supported the child with Gabriel to speak in the cradle and be a catalyst to anyone tried to offend Mary peace be upon her.
Again, brother, the English translation interfers to deform the meaning. In the English translation said: "She came to her family, carrying him. " There is an abscence of any connecting words, while in the Arabic version, we find the connecting word: "FA" (then she brought him to her tribe, carrying him ".As a proof of Jesus's talking in the cradle is the connecting word "Fa": "Fa"She pointed to him. They said, "How can we talk with an infant in the crib?"
[19:30] (The infant spoke and) said, "I am a servant of GOD. He has given me the scripture, and has appointed me a prophet. Hence the connecting word "fa" implies the succession of events within a short time period. It leaves no space for other interpretation.
The threat to the priesthood started once Jesus peace be upon him spoke in the cradle. I am not contradicting myself, brother. I just replied against your argument that the priests' saying:"How can we talk with an infant in the crib?" is considered by you as a contempt and attack against Jesus who was younger than them, and was threating their priesthood.
For me, they really meant what they said, and they werent ridiculing him. They were really astonished at Mary's carrying a child. So, they discovered the threat of Jesus peace be upon him after attacking him and his mother, and not before.
The Arabic version gives no space for your argument, brother. As I told you, the English translation, and any translation is not as sincere as the mother tongue.
I am quite sure that Jesus peace be upon him was born via virgin birth, brother. I am sorry to say that the Arabic language of the Quran gives no room for your argument.
Really! I hope so. But, I really want to know why you write peace with mixture of small and capital letters. Is it for decoration?!
Salam, Code. Well then, satisfaction is a very good characteristic..Well then, what more can I ask?
Come on, Code. Do you support your argument that Jesus peace be upon him lived a full healthy life by his speaking in the cradle?!!! What is the realtion of that with the fact that Jesus peace be upon him wasnt crucified?!!
I think that the fault you are making, c0de, is that you are isolating words from their real context, and this is a very dangerous cz it leads to robbing the real meaning of words.
Your support is much appreciated as always sis
God bless you, brother..
Look, brother. The verses between Mary peace be upon her and the angel Gabriel were direct talk that followed directly by Mary' pregrancy of Jesus peace be upon her, and then giving birth of Jesus. The Arabic language makes it clear that the actions were following each other directly. I was wondering about from where you got your understanding till I v found out that it is the english translation that may be the reason.
The conversation between Mary and Gabriel peace be upon them is related be connecting words that I notice are abscent in the English translation. In the english translation, we find that once Mary peace be uopn her was pregnant, the English translation said: " when she bore him,..." which gives an impression of a distance of time between the conversation, and Mary's pregnancy..a
Now, look at the Arabic version what it says. The conversation between Mray and Gabriel peace be upon them was directly followed by the Arabic conncting word "FA", which means in English "then directly" more than "when". The use of "when" here is really not aproppriate, and leads to the deformation of meaning. So, the use of the connecting word "FA" (then) for a Abdullah ibn Abbas, the most learned companions of the Prophet, meant that Mary peace be upon her became pregnant directly after her conversation with the angel Galbriel, and also her going to an isolated place, and giving birth of Jesus peace be upon him were direct actions that took place immediately after the conversation.
The Arabic verses say: "FA"(then immediately) she bore him, "FA" isolated herself in a farway place. "FA" the birth process came to her by the trank of the palm tree...."
As you v found out, brother, translation is a never sincere transmition of meaning. That's why, you find all the Arabic world believe in the virgin birth of Mary. Not because of the effect of the Christian traditions, but rather because of the clear meaning the Arabic language transmits.
What shall I say, brother?!!! I ve never seen or heard that someone wished to be forgotten so that he could give up his/her pain?!! what is the relation of wishing to be forgottem anmong people and pain?!!!!!!!!!(exclamation has nothing to do with blood`pressure, but I m really puzzled
)..I passed by moments wherein I wished that earth swallowed me because I behaved in bad, shameful wayo).You used the term non-existence (death) to express the situation you wished when you were in pain. I accord with you. Yes, one wishes to be dead at trying times. That's somthing reasonable in order to stop suffering. Yet, wishing that others forget you simply shows one's feelings of shame. Mary peace be upon her was really shameful. That's why she wished she was really of no big position in her tribe, and somenone of no value.
Thanks for your hope, c0de. But who doesnt experience the downs of life?! But, I hope for you, me and all people joys forever..
Mary peace be upon her was a normal human being who went through mixing psychological feelings that any pure woman would feel in such case. Mary peace be upon her was brought up in an atmosphere of high morals and ethics. How could such a woman accept easily the idea of being pregnant while she was really virgin?!! How could she digest this idea in that very short time, esp as I explained to you above that pregnancy and giving birth took place immediately after her conversation with the angel Galbriel. And that's why, God asked her not to talk to her tribe when she came back to it with the child, and that's why, God supported the child with Gabriel to speak in the cradle and be a catalyst to anyone tried to offend Mary peace be upon her.
But I already said that he did talk while he was in the cradle
Again, brother, the English translation interfers to deform the meaning. In the English translation said: "She came to her family, carrying him. " There is an abscence of any connecting words, while in the Arabic version, we find the connecting word: "FA" (then she brought him to her tribe, carrying him ".As a proof of Jesus's talking in the cradle is the connecting word "Fa": "Fa"She pointed to him. They said, "How can we talk with an infant in the crib?"
[19:30] (The infant spoke and) said, "I am a servant of GOD. He has given me the scripture, and has appointed me a prophet. Hence the connecting word "fa" implies the succession of events within a short time period. It leaves no space for other interpretation.
The threat to the priesthood started once Jesus peace be upon him spoke in the cradle. I am not contradicting myself, brother. I just replied against your argument that the priests' saying:"How can we talk with an infant in the crib?" is considered by you as a contempt and attack against Jesus who was younger than them, and was threating their priesthood.
For me, they really meant what they said, and they werent ridiculing him. They were really astonished at Mary's carrying a child. So, they discovered the threat of Jesus peace be upon him after attacking him and his mother, and not before.
The Arabic version gives no space for your argument, brother. As I told you, the English translation, and any translation is not as sincere as the mother tongue.
I am quite sure that Jesus peace be upon him was born via virgin birth, brother. I am sorry to say that the Arabic language of the Quran gives no room for your argument.
Really! I hope so
. But, I really want to know why you write peace with mixture of small and capital letters. Is it for decoration?!
c0de
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Salam, Code. Well then, satisfaction is a very good characteristic..
You give me 2 much credit
Look at what you are saying DIB: what you are saying is IMPOSSIBLE. How could she give birth "immediately" after getting pregnant? You think her stomach just ballooned with a baby and then she got transported to the tree and then gave birth in the space of 5 minutes? (lol). It doesn't make any sense!!! Obviously the word "fa" does not mean right at the next second, but signifies that it happened afterwords. Obviously, this signifies a passage of time. And in this case it means 9 months. Which means that a passage of time also passed between the revelation and her getting pregnant.
But you do not have the authority to make a judgment like that DIB. I can very easily claim the same to you: that you are adding meanings to the words that aren't there. You have your interpretations, and I have mine. Neither of us has the authority to claim that the other is wrong. This is why I am saying that you can be right. But what I am saying is that you can not be certain, because it is not certain.
His speaking in the cradle AND his speaking in old age signify his normality as a human being. No more or less. I am not claiming anything more then that.
Again, this is circumstantial. You can not claim that this experience would cause her to feel shame. And personally, I do not think she cried like that and said those words because of shame to begin with.
I doubt that, because the people who have translated that verse all speak Arabic just like you. So you will have to argue with them, not me.
Really! I hope so
YeP
awww thanx sis
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You deserve, brother.You give me 2 much credit
Well, c0de, from the very start, I have been defending what seems IMPOSSIBLE for all of us. Because I have merely been defending a miracle. The miracle of the virgin birth of Jesus peace be upon him. It is true that I was surprised once that I heard of the above interpretation, but I didnt assume its impossibility. It is the interpretation of one of the best interpreters among the prophet's companions: Ibn Abbass. (It would be a great add to your knowledge if you know more about this learned person. Because of his wide knowledge, he was called "the sea" among his friends.
) Also, it seems to me logical since we are talking about a miracle. Yet, this interpretation is not very common among Muslims. I just want to show you how those connecting words signify direct succession of events,esp for an interpreter from the bottom of the pure Arabic language. Well, brother, I am sure of what I believe in, not out of stubborness, but out of clear, plain scriptures. God says: "[21:91] As for the one who maintained her virginity, we blew into her from our spirit, and thus, we made her and her son a portent for the whole world."
Again, brother, I find myself obliged to cite the scriptures which show in a very clear way that what Jesus peace be upon him said were grown up, prophetic words, not child words. God said "[19:27] She came to her family, carrying him. They said, "O Mary, you have committed something that is totally unexpected. [19:28] "O descendant of Aaron, your father was not a bad man, nor was your mother unchaste." [19:29](fa) She pointed to him. They said, "How can we talk with an infant in the crib?" [19:30] (The infant spoke and) said, "I am a servant of GOD. He has given me the scripture, and has appointed me a prophet. [19:31] "He made me blessed wherever I go, and enjoined me to observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and the obligatory charity (Zakat) for as long as I live. [19:32] "I am to honor my mother; He did not make me a disobedient rebel. [19:33] And peace be upon me the day I was born, the day I die, and the day I get resurrected."
Arent you a little bit stubborn, brother?! Well, c0de, you can ask people around if they have never wished to be forgotten because of being in pain!!
I doubt that, because the people who have translated that verse all speak Arabic just like you. So you will have to argue with them, not me.
Of course, brother, the English translation of the Quran doesnt transmit the real meaning of the words. And not because those translators dont understand the real meanings of words, but because they find themselves obliged to choose a words from among very short options. That's why, many translators add commentary over every verse to explain the Arabic meanings the verses bear. Anyway, those translators have done a very huge work that God alone will reward them fully for that. They didnt let the limitation of any foreign language stop them from translating the over all meaning. " What cant be taken all, shouldnt be left all". That's why, brother, there is no harm to argue with you about the translation.
In God's protection
c0de
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Salaam DIB
Just a little?
DIB, the verse which you are using to support your case actually works against your argument. You think the words "blew into her from our spirit" mean that she got pregnant via the "spirit"? Have you considered all the other cases in the Quran where this expression has been used? The purpose of the spirit is not to impregnate humans, but to strengthen them.
040.015
Raised high above ranks (or degrees), (He is) the Lord of the Throne (of Authority): by His Command doth He send the Spirit (of inspiration) to any of His servants he pleases, that it may warn (men) of the Day of Mutual Meeting,-
058.022
Thou wilt not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day, loving those who resist Allah and His Messenger, even though they were their fathers or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred. For such He has written Faith in their hearts, and strengthened them with a spirit from Himself. And He will admit them to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, to dwell therein (for ever). Allah will be well pleased with them, and they with Him. They are the Party of Allah. Truly it is the Party of Allah that will achieve Felicity.
This has nothing to do with whether such a thing is possible. Of course God could make that happen. The problem is that this view is not supported by the Quran. Nothing in the verse you quoted guarantees the "virgin birth". That whole idea is a Christian concept that has found its way into Muslim belief structure, just like the idea that Jesus PBUH is alive right now and will return. The actual words of the Quran say nothing of this, and even contradict it, according to the alternative view.
You are confusing the issue DIB. I already said that in that particular verse Jesus PBUH is grown up. It were the other verses in which he was still actually in the cradle, and not speaking the words above *(those are the verses in which God Himself states that Jesus PBUH spoke in the cradle, but in those verses his speech is not listed)*. Notice that in this verse the ones who say that he is still a child in the cradle are the people who are arguing with Jesus PBUH, not God Himself. In this verse, the statement that he is still a child is an insult to Jesus PBUH from the elderly priests.
She did not just wish that she was forgotten, she wished that she had become dust (died) and been forgotten... She was contemplating non-existence. You don't just do that when you are ashamed, but also in moments of pain and despair.
This isn't just about the translation, it is about taking the verses in proper context sis.
PeAcE
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Alaykomsalam,c0de.
Well,then, Allah forbids...
Well,brother, I know that the Quran uses theb term "spirit" to express four or five different meanings, one of which is "God's breath". And I am fully sure that the scripture I used works in a complete harmony with my case. Look what the following verses say: "[15:28] Your Lord said to the angels, "I am creating a human being from aged mud, like the potter's clay.[15:29] "Once I perfect him, and blow into him from My spirit, you shall fall prostrate before him." [15:30] The angels fell prostrate; all of them,"Do you find any difference between the above verses and this verses, c0de?!
As God created Adam with neither a dad and mum, He created Jesus peace be upon him from a mother alone. God says :"[3:59] The example of Jesus, as far as GOD is concerned, is the same as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, "Be," and he was. [3:60] This is the truth from your Lord; do not harbor any doubts."
You wanted to mean that the word "virgin birth" is not said explicitly, rather than not be supported by the Quran.
Well, brother, in those verses wherein the priests directed Jesus peace be upon him, his mother came to her tribe, carrying him as the verse clearly show. So, were she carrying a grown up? a 30 years adult?
PeAcE
c0de
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Salaam DIB
If these verses are metaphoric and Adam PBUH was the first "man" only in the spiritual sense with a complete spirit, that would mean that he was indeed born in the normal way. In fact, from the other verses which have clearly shown the meaning of the words "breathed into him of His spirit" to mean inspiration, it would mean that without this man is incomplete. So in this sense, Adam PBUH was the first man, and so was Jesus PBUH like Adam as God personally breathed into him of His spirit which only takes place *(according to the Quran)* in the case of prophets and their righteous followers.
Notice that this view takes into account all the verses in which the term "spirit" is used in the Quran and hence we get a comprehensive picture, not just of Jesus PBUH, and Adam PBUH, but a greater understanding of what our own "soul" actually is.
PeAcE
lolWell,then, Allah forbids...
With this DIB, I think you have dug the grave of your own point. Take a look at these verses again and see how they contradict your entire argument. I should have thought of this before, but I didn't. Thank you for bringing it to my attention:
Adam (pbuh) was not born of a virgin, was he? But this verse clearly states that his likeness is just like the likeness of Adam PBUH. So your version of events CAN NEVER be proven through these verses. Do you see how this is a checkmate? If you argue a literal interpretation of these words, it still cancels out the similarity between Adam PBUH and Jesus PBUH as one was created from dust, while the other was created in the womb. So this version can never be true as that would mean there is a contradiction! Which can never be in the case of the Quran. However, the metaphoric approach solves all the problems at the same time, observe:
If these verses are metaphoric and Adam PBUH was the first "man" only in the spiritual sense with a complete spirit, that would mean that he was indeed born in the normal way. In fact, from the other verses which have clearly shown the meaning of the words "breathed into him of His spirit" to mean inspiration, it would mean that without this man is incomplete. So in this sense, Adam PBUH was the first man, and so was Jesus PBUH like Adam as God personally breathed into him of His spirit which only takes place *(according to the Quran)* in the case of prophets and their righteous followers.
Notice that this view takes into account all the verses in which the term "spirit" is used in the Quran and hence we get a comprehensive picture, not just of Jesus PBUH, and Adam PBUH, but a greater understanding of what our own "soul" actually is.
Or in other words, an added meaning or, an interpretation. But that is the most you can argue for. And this is all I have been saying since the beginning.
You are right here DIB, I did not notice that. Jesus PBUH might indeed have been young at that age.
PeAcE
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Alaykomsalam, brother.
Sorry for being late in replying, but I was busy in writing on the stone grave of your argument the following words :" here c0de's argument lies in PeAcE"
Well, brother, you read the verses differently. The creation of Adam of no parents, and the virgin birth of Jesus peace be upon them is similar in the divine command of "be".
As we come to the birth of Jesus peace be upon him, the Quran makes it clear that his virgin birth is as easy as the creation of Adam. The command of "be" is enough. God says:"4:171 O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs
Jesus peace be upon him must (not might) have been young at that age, which implies the literal maning of events, and which need from you to relook at your argument which is dying...
PeAcE
Peace to you and yours, brother
c0de
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Salaam DIB
yea you wish sis
(ha ha)
[/b]
Sorry for being late in replying, but I was busy in writing on the stone grave of your argument the following words :" here c0de's argument lies in PeAcE"
yea you wish sis
NO WAY MAN!!!! The Quran says that his likeness (of his creation/birth) is as the likeness of Adam PBUH. Now Adam PBUH was NOT born via a virgin birth, and Jesus PBUH was NOT hand crafted through dirt. So both interpretations are obviously wrong because they contradict and God specifically says they are supposed to be alike (of course He says "be" and it becomes, that is the case with everything. But that verse is comparing their "likeness" specifically). I am sorry sis, but whether you admit it or not, your argument is DEAD! Here lies the grave of DIB's argument. Rest in Peace:
(ha ha
)
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לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות
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[/b]Well,then, Allah forbids...
Yeah, that is one of his favourites!
(Pass times that is.)a slave of Allah
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Hi dear brother c0de,
Adam peace be upon him had no father and Jesus had no father, too.
I believe that Jesus was created from dust like Adam peace be upon both.
And both of them had the spirit from the breath of the spirit of Allah Glory be to Him.
[3:59] The example of Jesus, as far as GOD is concerned, is the same as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, "Be," and he was.
Best wishes,
Assalamu Alykum.
Adam peace be upon him had no father and Jesus had no father, too.
I believe that Jesus was created from dust like Adam peace be upon both.
And both of them had the spirit from the breath of the spirit of Allah Glory be to Him.
[3:59] The example of Jesus, as far as GOD is concerned, is the same as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, "Be," and he was.
Best wishes,
Assalamu Alykum.
dailogue is the best
New member
Alaykomsalam, brother.
NO WAY MAN!!!! The Quran says that his likeness (of his creation/birth) is as the likeness of Adam PBUH. Now Adam PBUH was NOT born via a virgin birth, and Jesus PBUH was NOT hand crafted through dirt. So both interpretations are obviously wrong because they contradict and God specifically says they are supposed to be alike (of course He says "be" and it becomes, that is the case with everything. But that verse is comparing their "likeness" specifically). I am sorry sis, but whether you admit it or not, your argument is DEAD! Here lies the grave of DIB's argument. Rest in Peace:
(ha ha
hahahahahahahaha...The essence from the verses, brother, is that both the creation of Adam and the virgin birth of Jesus peace be upon them both were miraculous. The verses want to say: why do you wonder about the virgin birth of Jesus pubh, and you dont wonder about the creation of Adam?!
Your argument has no hope for living, brother. I did all that I can to make it live, but alass
. Dont forget, brother, that you have admittedthat you overlooked that when Mary peace be upon her came to her tribe, she was carrying her child, which implies the literal interpretation of the story, and the direct succession of events. You admitted it, brother.
Actually, I pity you , brother. That's why, I am not gonna bury your argument by myself. I will let you do it yourself,c0de. My consolations
( dont bother yourself of looking for a grave. I know you are passing by bad time. Here is a wonderful grave. You have a friend, and a friend in need is a friend indeed)
